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  1. #46
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    I think both Sentry and Blue Marvel are sufficiently nuanced now that you can't really draw parallels to either Superman or Shazam. I will admit, though, that Blue Marvel and Icon could be closely compared given that one has mastered antiparticles, while the other is a master of positrons. But even with those close similarities, everything else about them is night and day from every version of Clark Kent. And when you add someone like Silver Sable being able to body slam Adam -- a man who wrestles with tens of thousands of tons of mass without breaking a sweat -- then we can also add that he's nothing like Clark with respect to how writers treat him. There's no way in hell that someone like Huntress is body slamming Superman. Seriously, they should lose their jobs for even thinking of putting something that ridiculous in a Marvel book.
    Sentry is just “what if Superman was insane?” That’s basically all there is to that character.

    What makes Adam a great character is that he is a Superman expy in all the ways that matter. Oh sure unlike Kal he’s not an alien, he gets his powers from anti-matter radiation if I recall correctly. But he’s got the most important common ground: Adam is a hero because he deeply cares about others well-being. He’s not doing this because his uncle died or because he was a weapons dealer, he’s not atoning for past sins or trying to work through trauma. He wants to make the world a better place because he empathizes with peoples plight but he’s stuck in the Marvel Universe, where the civilians are pieces of **** who routinely commit genocide (as opposed to DC’s civilians which on their bad days tend more towards simple paranoia and fear mongering as opposed to routine genocide), and all the “heroes” are basically adolescents, constantly fighting one another over dumb meaningless crap and committing moral atrocities that have to get swept under the rug to even allow them to continue to be seen as heroes.


    So he’s a morally upright and powerful hero stuck in a universe that basically was created in deliberate contrast to the archetype he evokes. That’s a really interesting set up, reminds me of the High from Ellis’ Stormwatch. But it’s also why he doesn’t really fit with groups like the Avengers. He’s not neurotic or driven by ego, he’d never let the bull**** Tony Stark regularly pulls slide, so he’s pushed to the side because otherwise he’d lose what makes him special: Being a flat out incredibly powerful good man in a universe where those mostly don’t exist.

    I do think taking him into space could work, although I don’t think the Guardians are a good fit. Out in space Adam can be used to his full potential, whereas on Earth he’s always going to be roadblocked by Marvel’s insistence on being “the world outside your window”. On an alien world though? Adam could radically shake up the status quo. I’m picturing a mini or ongoing akin to something like Star Trek where Adam goes from planet to planet helping.
    Last edited by Vordan; 02-06-2020 at 09:42 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    And if you like seeing someone like Silver Sable body slam Adam, sure, pick it up. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Adam is definitely getting D-list jobber treatment. You'd never see a battle with Sentry or Thor or Silver Surfer vs. Victorious, Doctor Doom, Kang and Sable go down like this. Weak stuff. Sure, Blue annihilates one timestream version of Kang, but Kang's alt reappears seconds later. File under, "When a feat is not a feat." Happy Black History Month, everyone!
    Yea that had me stunned... like how the hell is a street tier character suppose to ever be able to body slam a Superman level character? It should feel like trying to body slam a mountain, literally impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    Why even mention that garbage book? It's clearly obvious the writer has no idea or intentions of knowing who the blue Marvel is, up to the point of treating him like a whipping boy. This guy clearly can't write a powerful black male to save his life, but to me, everything in that book I just ignore.
    I mean i just wanted to mention him appearing in it, he might even appear more, it's a shame that the power level portrayals in todays comic books in general are all over the place....

  3. #48
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Yea that had me stunned... like how the hell is a street tier character suppose to ever be able to body slam a Superman level character? It should feel like trying to body slam a mountain, literally impossible.



    I mean i just wanted to mention him appearing in it, he might even appear more, it's a shame that the power level portrayals in todays comic books in general are all over the place....
    We have actually seen street level characters judo throw class 100 guys in comic related fiction. Cap has done it to Hulk (at least twice), and Batman did it to Superman in the first Batman/Superman cross over back in the day. Even non A listers from time to time can pull if off.

    hideko-takata-hulk.jpg

    Not that I'm a big fan of seeing that sort of thing... but it does happen. I think we have to just remember when we see that sort of thing that it doesn't really hurt them, and the class 100 guy can still rip about the street leve guy tossing them if they REALLY wanted to (which they obviously don't most of the time).

  4. #49
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    This space reserved for powers/feats.

    Edit: On second thought, I decided not to bother listing Blue Marvel's powers. It's not like any of the current writers are showing him as powerful as he truly is anyway.
    could you please update with this info. for people like myself who are not familiar with his powerset that would be nice
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Sentry is just “what if Superman was insane?” That’s basically all there is to that character. .
    Disagree.

    Sentry is an insane Silver Age Superman. The distinction is important because the Silver Age Superman could move planets. After Crisis, Superman's power was scaled down considerably. In Marvel, Sentry is always written as a notch above the strongest characters, because he draws from that archtype.

    Blue doesn't have that issue, for one thing. He's in the same weight class as Thor, Herc, etc. If you want to get picky, I think Blue is the first human 100-ton weightclass superhero (Hulk is an anti-hero) in Marvel

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    We have actually seen street level characters judo throw class 100 guys in comic related fiction. Cap has done it to Hulk (at least twice), and Batman did it to Superman in the first Batman/Superman cross over back in the day. Even non A listers from time to time can pull if off.

    hideko-takata-hulk.jpg

    Not that I'm a big fan of seeing that sort of thing... but it does happen. I think we have to just remember when we see that sort of thing that it doesn't really hurt them, and the class 100 guy can still rip about the street leve guy tossing them if they REALLY wanted to (which they obviously don't most of the time).
    Yea but it's dumb, no matter how many times it happens it's still pretty dumb. That Hulk screenshot for instance is particularly silly considering Hulk was charging at her at full force and in that story he was so powerful he overpowered Hercules, WonderMan, IronMan and Namor at the same time.

    Even if it doesn't hurt them at all, it still makes me cringe every time i see it, there is a much, MUCH less difference between me and someone like Brock Lesner but there is no way in hell i am ever gonna move that man even if i was a Judo expert, and there is no way any street level guy that can lift maybe a couple of tons at best is gonna Judo guys that can move around planetary weights...

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Yea but it's dumb, no matter how many times it happens it's still pretty dumb. That Hulk screenshot for instance is particularly silly considering Hulk was charging at her at full force and in that story he was so powerful he overpowered Hercules, WonderMan, IronMan and Namor at the same time.

    Even if it doesn't hurt them at all, it still makes me cringe every time i see it, there is a much, MUCH less difference between me and someone like Brock Lesner but there is no way in hell i am ever gonna move that man even if i was a Judo expert, and there is no way any street level guy that can lift maybe a couple of tons at best is gonna Judo guys that can move around planetary weights...
    You're very much correct with your overall assessment. It's funny to see how people will contort a narrative just to show some trash level action against Adam. I for the life of me understand why use Adam if you're going to disrespect him. Create a new characters slap uber powers on him and let the protagonist slap them around. Let Adam chill in limbo until another writer has a well plotted story arc for him that continues with building his profile. As much as I love Blue Marvel I don't need to see him on the page for any contrite storyline. Calling him a Superman analogy is for people with lazy imagination, and it's in the same category as people that think Cyborg is just a clanking pincushion for other heroes.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    You're very much correct with your overall assessment. It's funny to see how people will contort a narrative just to show some trash level action against Adam. I for the life of me understand why use Adam if you're going to disrespect him. Create a new characters slap uber powers on him and let the protagonist slap them around. Let Adam chill in limbo until another writer has a well plotted story arc for him that continues with building his profile. As much as I love Blue Marvel I don't need to see him on the page for any contrite storyline. Calling him a Superman analogy is for people with lazy imagination, and it's in the same category as people that think Cyborg is just a clanking pincushion for other heroes.
    Or even the same people who routinely mischaracterise T'Challa as being anything other than metahuman.

    It's funny how consistently the disingenuous goal post moving and gymnastic excuse making is deployed with unnerving predictability.

  9. #54
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intothevoid View Post
    Yea but it's dumb, no matter how many times it happens it's still pretty dumb. That Hulk screenshot for instance is particularly silly considering Hulk was charging at her at full force and in that story he was so powerful he overpowered Hercules, WonderMan, IronMan and Namor at the same time.

    Even if it doesn't hurt them at all, it still makes me cringe every time i see it, there is a much, MUCH less difference between me and someone like Brock Lesner but there is no way in hell i am ever gonna move that man even if i was a Judo expert, and there is no way any street level guy that can lift maybe a couple of tons at best is gonna Judo guys that can move around planetary weights...
    I agree ... its a bit cringy. Seeing Batman ko Wonder Woman with a kick or Surfer disabled with an arm bar or Hulk judo tossed by someones grandmother can be tough to stomach at times.

    But I think thats almost an inevitable problem when a universe with street level characters and guys who can move planets share so much panel time.

    The thing I sort of like about the mcu is that a lot of the lower end power guys like Cap and Bucky and BP are a bit stronger while a lot of the higher end power guys like Thor and Hulk are a bit weaker. It creates more of a middle ground where the c hgat characters can interact more believably.

  10. #55
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    But I think thats almost an inevitable problem when a universe with street level characters and guys who can move planets share so much panel time.
    I understand your point, but I still think in the long run that you have to maintain some sense of logic in these stories. Let the giant be the giant, and the gnat be the gnat.

    There really was no call for PIS here. That panel in Doom #5 could have just as easily been Silver Sable trying to throw Adam, but falling flat on her ass in the attempt, and the rest of the story would have proceeded to its normal conclusion without making Blue look like a buffoon. Even Sable's idea to lay hands on Blue Marvel at all is ridiculous given that he can erect an antimatter field instantaneously that would completely annihilate her. Even if Blue was barely stronger than your average circus clown, it wouldn't be prudent for a normal human to attack him physically. Ever.

    The writer should have acknowledged the obvious and chose a different way for Sable to contribute. Or better still, not even involved Sable at all. Adam was there to apprehend Doom. Kang even delivered Doom new armament and armor for the occasion. That's the battle that everyone would rather see. But instead we get Sable slamming Blue, followed by Victorious somehow having Sentry level power and knocking him completely out of the fray. I call bull****. Sadly, when it comes to Blue, I seem to call that more than we should, given his capabilities and intellect.

    Reed indicated that Blue Marvel defeats Dr. Doom 3 times out of 5 in all of his trial assessments -- but all head to head match-ups were close and could go either way. So far after reading this series there is nothing at all to indicate that is even remotely true. So either Reed is a complete idiot, or the writer is an amnesiac.

  11. #56
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Sidebar:

    For those wondering whether or not antimatter functions the same way in the comic environment as we believe it does in the real world, keep this screenshot handy. Here Kang gets annihilated by a mildly ticked-off Blue Marvel.

    Oh, and please ignore Blue Marvel's previous claim that he doesn't kill. Apparently, the writer of the Doom series thinks that he does. (Should add fuel for the conspiracy theorists out there who believe that this isn't the real Blue Marvel, but an alien clone that was swapped for the real Blue Marvel way back in 1962 or '63. When the real one shows up, there's going to be a reckoning like you wouldn't believe!)
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    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 02-07-2020 at 10:45 PM.

  12. #57
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    It would appear that after his appearances in Dr. Doom are done Blue Marvel will be relegated to comic book limbo again. What is everyone reading to hold them over until his next appearance...if there is a next appearance?

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
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  14. #59
    Astonishing Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    It would appear that after his appearances in Dr. Doom are done Blue Marvel will be relegated to comic book limbo again. What is everyone reading to hold them over until his next appearance...if there is a next appearance?
    Is the "Incoming" event still going on? I picked up the first issue because I saw Blue Marvel was in it, but I haven't read it yet.
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
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  15. #60
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    It would appear that after his appearances in Dr. Doom are done Blue Marvel will be relegated to comic book limbo again. What is everyone reading to hold them over until his next appearance...if there is a next appearance?
    He showed up in Incoming, so I think Al Ewing at least will continue to use Adam down the line.

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