Heroes you love, but don't think should be in the Justice League

[astro@work]

I really dislike Gods and New Gods on the team (save possibly Mr Miracle and Barda).

I feel like it really diminishes characters like Orion or Lightray, and makes all the other human characters fairly useless.
First of all, what interest would New Gods have in palling around with a bunch of humans other than Superman/Wonder Woman. Surely they have more godly things to be spending their time on.
Secondly, I really like having very-human characters like Black Canary, Blue Beetle, and Green Arrow on the team...but what use are they when the team is full of godlike beings.

For all the same reasons, I'm not really a huge fan of team members like the Monitor, Anti-Monitor and Forger of Worlds.
Don't they have more important stuff to be doing?

[titanfan]

None of the Titans save Wally.

It just reinforces that their team is something to be graduated from, a stepping stone to bigger pastures instead of a big deal on their own.

I kind of wish they had done that arc with the original NTT. (Maybe after the last Trigon saga) Where one (or more) of them get invites to the League and they realize they had grown something of their own.

[Lee]

Sidekicks. Characters strongly associated with other teams. Fourth World characters. Dial H for Hero (any version). Resurrection Man. The Question. Phantom Stranger.

[Ascended]

But this still treats it like you graduate from one to another - are only a Titan because you couldn't (weren't good enough to) be a Leaguer. I do not agree with that.

In a world where the Titans still matter and are considered a major player and equal to the League (and it's been thirty years since anyone could say that with a straight face) it's more of a sideways move than anything, but one that feels more true to Vic's character arc and what I imagine his ultimate goals are.

Even if the Titans are considered a great team, the League is where the greatest individual heroes congregate. The Titans might be just as capable as the League but no one is saying "Man, that Beast Boy is one of the greatest heroes on earth!"

It's like music. The Rolling Stones are one of the greatest bands in history but most people couldn't name the members (other than Mick anyway). That's kinda like the Titans. But the League is like one of those super groups where each individual member has a long and storied career and everyone knows their names.

And I imagine that Vic, yeah he's a team player (a fantastic one, actually) and he'll always be a Titan but he's still that guy who wanted to go pro and make a name for himself in the NFL. He didn't just want to be on the best team, he wanted to be one of the best players. So it makes sense that he'd eventually want to shift from the Titans to the League. He wants to be one of the greatest individual heroes on earth, not just a member of one of the greatest teams, and the greatest individual heroes are JLA, not NTT.

Vic's history should never have been cut away in the reboot and he shouldn't have been a League founder, but switching teams at this point in his career makes sense to me. He can always visit the Titans, he can always help out when he's needed or even do double time as a member of both groups. But he's still a guy who wants to be considered one of the best heroes, I think. He doesn't just want to be a Rolling Stone, he wants to be a Rolling Stone who joined a super group with other super famous musicians.

[Godlike13]

Nightwing
...

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah, no one believes that.

Really, i don't believe they are special. Why are they special? Cause of power? That doesn't make them special. JL is given is importance cause They have the popular character assembled and they are pushed as the be all of dc. Try changing the characters on the team. Remove the so called the trinity. Half it's popularity will go just by that. If jl remains popular, i will admit it has something going for it. Not because their team dynamic is as good as any of other teams.JL ranks last on my teams of DC list.Thank buddha, that martian manhunter is back. Otherwise, they are just stand-ins for greek gods, even with the space cop. Boring!!!
Having cyborg earn a place in jl isn't needed.It is not like cyborg was itching to be on the team. Why should he need to? Its not JL makes the character any better, either. He was as popular before the transfer.

[Lightning Rider]

Really, i don't believe they are special. Why are they special? Cause of power? That doesn't make them special. JL is given is importance cause They have the popular character assembled and they are pushed as the be all of dc. Try changing the characters on the team. Remove the so called the trinity. Half it's popularity will go just by that. If jl remains popular, i will admit it has something going for it. Not because their team dynamic is as good as any of other teams.JL ranks last on my teams of DC list.Thank buddha, that martian manhunter is back. Otherwise, they are just stand-ins for greek gods, even with the space cop. Boring!!!
Having cyborg earn a place in jl isn't needed.It's not like cyborg was itching to be on the team. Why should he need to? Its not JL makes the character any better, either. He was as popular before the transfer.

It doesn't really make sense to argue a team isn't considered important because the people on the team are important. They are the team. The team consists of powerful popular names with many storied relationships and a history of being central to the universe. It doesn't need to be justified beyond that to be considered special.

[Riv86672]

Vic's history should never have been cut away in the reboot and he shouldn't have been a League founder, but switching teams at this point in his career makes sense to me. He can always visit the Titans, he can always help out when he's needed or even do double time as a member of both groups. But he's still a guy who wants to be considered one of the best heroes, I think. He doesn't just want to be a Rolling Stone, he wants to be a Rolling Stone who joined a super group with other super famous musicians.

Your whole post did really well in explaining the why and how Vic makes sense on the JLA.
A pleasure to read that.

[Ulysses]

The Question. JLU ultimately did the character a disservice. Here’s hoping Lemire rights the ship

[manwhohaseverything]

It doesn't really make sense to argue a team isn't considered important because the people on the team are important. They are the team. The team consists of powerful popular names with many storied relationships and a history of being central to the universe. It doesn't need to be justified beyond that to be considered special.

You see, the difference is a good teams with great characters is different from putting a bunch of popular characters together just cause they are popular . The former the team is put first. The latter, individual characters are put first instead of team when writing the story. The other teams actually have better dynamics and chemistry,JL doesn't. the only reason they remain top is fans of individual characters. That's it. Have you ever read jl comic for jl team itself,not for flash or superman? I haven't. I imagine a portion, don't. When you pickup a titans, teen titans comic, we read it for the team . I read doom patrol for the entire team, even though i love Robotman .The most talked about relationships jl had with big 8 or so characters are gl-flash, superman-batman that's it. That's not nearly enough as a team.

[Johnny]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion but Mera. Arguably my favorite character from the Aquaman cast but I don't think she should be part of the Justice League. With Arthur it makes more sense to be a member of Earth's superhero team, he's half-human who thinks he doesn't really belong in Atlantis and grew up on the surface, Mera on the other hand seems way more fit to rule an underwater nation and have comparatively less concern for the surface world affairs than he does. Naturally she can get involved at times and really stand out like she did in Blackest Night, but being a regular JL member just doesn't seem to suit her character I think.

[Sutekh]

Cyborg is a special (and weird) case. As "Titan who graduated to the Justice League" he probably would have been a good fit. But as "Founding Member of the Justice League" he's always felt like a weirdly retconned 7th wheel, like Triumph. Wiping out his history as a Titan did a tremendous disservice to the character, and forever tainted his otherwise well-deserved Justice League membership.

I got a weird vibe from how it went down. "Hey kid, everything you ever did as a Titan wasn't enough to get you into the League. Not Trigon, not Deathstroke, not some alien invasions. But if you were a random nobody we grabbed off the street who literally just got his powers, then sure, welcome to the team! We need the melanin..."

[Shamrock Holmes]

I got a weird vibe from how it went down. "Hey kid, everything you ever did as a Titan wasn't enough to get you into the League. Not Trigon, not Deathstroke, not some alien invasions. But if you were a random nobody we grabbed off the street who literally just got his powers, then sure, welcome to the team! We need the melanin..."

I'm not if the bold was the actual reason for it, but removing his Titans history made the look like it, which is why if they did do for that reason, it would have made more sense to use John Stewart, John Henry Irons, Black Lightning or even Vixen rather than Vic as the "token minority" (similar to the swapout of Hal in favour of John in JL/JLU which wasn't universally popular but was at least reasonably logical and in-character).

[jetengine]

I'm not if the bold was the actual reason for it, but removing his Titans history made the look like it, which is why if they did do for that reason, it would have made more sense to use John Stewart, John Henry Irons, Black Lightning or even Vixen rather than Vic as the "token minority" (similar to the swapout of Hal in favour of John in JL/JLU which wasn't universally popular but was at least reasonably logical and in-character).

I'd rather Vixen or Lightning. Another dude with an S on chest or another ring bearer doesnt stand out to me.

[Sutekh]

I'd rather Vixen or Lightning. Another dude with an S on chest or another ring bearer doesnt stand out to me.

Indeed. Adding Steel or John Stewart to the team in place of a popular white original just fosters resentment from fans of the original. (And provides cover for people who never seemed to give a crap about Hal before John showed up to claim to be 'fans of the original' while flying their freak flag.) Better to go with someone who *is* an original 'first of their name,' like Vixen or Black Lightning, who aren't legacies of anyone, and, in the case of Lightning, has *his own* legacies, in the case of his daughters.

That might be an interesting thing to see, someday. Legacies of characters like Vixen. And not just legacies, but, as Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc. can have minority legacies, have a *white person* spun off from a traditionally black character. Have a *male* legacy of Wonder Woman. Superman has Supergirl. Batman has multiple Batgirls and Batwomen, over the years. Why not a dude, inspired by Diana, and tied to Greek myth in some way (or just a gun-toting Steve Trevor!)?