Heroes you love, but don't think should be in the Justice League

[Ascended]

Your whole post did really well in explaining the why and how Vic makes sense on the JLA.
A pleasure to read that.

Thanks! I mean, if someone doesn't agree with my reasoning that's cool; different strokes for different folks right? But I like to explain why I've come to the conclusions I have, and hope others do the same. Makes for a fun debate and I think it's good to challenge our opinions with strong arguments.

Also, big fan of your avatar. Recently discovered MHA and I'm really digging it.

[MoneySpider]

I can see Batman in the Batcave, Justice League Watchtower or Justice League headquarters offering tactical advice to the Justice League team out in the field, but I don't think Batman should even physically be on the field WITH the Justice League when they are fighting big-level threats. I have not read every Justice League book or Justice League animated movie Batman has been in, but it seems like every time I see him dealing with big Justice League threats, he's hurling exploding or electrical Batarangs at the enemies and then swinging away. To me that gets very old really quickly. And "Because he's Batman" or "Batman can beat ANYBODY with prep time!"is no longer amusing to me and are not legitimate reasons for him being in these scenarios where other characters could be more useful on the battlefield. (And that prep time thing is not even true, because all it takes is for ONE little thing to not go according to plan and your whole plan is ruined. But that's another gripe for another time).

I don't think Green Arrow should be there, either. I keep thinking about what will Green Arrow do when he runs out of arrows? Fight hand to hand with big-level threats like Darkseid?

I understand that these characters are popular and DC wants to use them in almost every instance they can, but to me it just doesn't make much sense to put Batman and characters with no powers or whatever on the main, flagship Justice League team. I think DC tends to overlook whether it makes sense or not and just "do it" because the fans like it. (I could go on and on about how I think DC tends to put Batman in a lot of scenarios he has no business being in, but I'll save that for another thread at some point).

[SiegePerilous02]

That might be an interesting thing to see, someday. Legacies of characters like Vixen. And not just legacies, but, as Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc. can have minority legacies, have a *white person* spun off from a traditionally black character. Have a *male* legacy of Wonder Woman. Superman has Supergirl. Batman has multiple Batgirls and Batwomen, over the years. Why not a dude, inspired by Diana, and tied to Greek myth in some way (or just a gun-toting Steve Trevor!)?

I think the problem with this is that things are disproportionately skewed towards white males in superhero comic books. That's why female spin offs for Batman and Superman work in a way that a male spin off for Wonder Woman might not. Supergirl and Batgirl are the gateways for female fans for those two properties, whereas Wonder Woman is petty much the only major property where all the traditional comic book roles are filled by women.


Similarly, a minority hero losing their identity to a white person is going to be problematic since we don't have as many stand alone minority heroes in the first place.

[Ascended]

I got a weird vibe from how it went down. "Hey kid, everything you ever did as a Titan wasn't enough to get you into the League. Not Trigon, not Deathstroke, not some alien invasions. But if you were a random nobody we grabbed off the street who literally just got his powers, then sure, welcome to the team! We need the melanin..."

The funny thing is, Vic *did* graduate to the League shortly before the reboot. Even with the new timeline and origin I'm willing to bet DC didn't think Vic being on the League would throw the fandom as much as it did since he was already there.

Better to go with someone who *is* an original 'first of their name,' like Vixen or Black Lightning, who aren't legacies of anyone, and, in the case of Lightning, has *his own* legacies, in the case of his daughters.

Agreed. I'm pretty sure that's why they went with Vic instead of someone like John Stewart, Steel, or Mr. Terrific. Vic's an original, non-legacy character and he's got more recognition than any of DC's other PoC, with larger media appearances going back to the 80's era Super Friends (whatever it was called), the 00's Teen Titans, TTGO!, Smallville, a bunch of video games, etc. Black Lightning would've been a arguably better choice but there was all that drama with Isabella. And Vixen is a great character but just doesn't have the recognition factor Vic does.

[MoneySpider]

And Vixen is a great character but just doesn't have the recognition factor Vic does.

Which I blame on DC Entertainment, because it's their job to market these characters and make them as popular as they can. It's hard to get more people to recognize her when a lot of people don't even know she exists and what she can do. Meanwhile, DC has no problems letting everyone know Harley Quinn exists and is trying to change her life, I guess.

[Agent Z]

I think the problem with this is that things are disproportionately skewed towards white males in superhero comic books. That's why female spin offs for Batman and Superman work in a way that a male spin off for Wonder Woman might not. Supergirl and Batgirl are the gateways for female fans for those two properties, whereas Wonder Woman is petty much the only major property where all the traditional comic book roles are filled by women.

Not to mention, asking for Diana to have a male spin off when the two Wonder Girls and the rest of the Amazons are treated so poorly is.... kind of having the wrong priorities.

[achilles]

Which I blame on DC Entertainment, because it's their job to market these characters and make them as popular as they can. It's hard to get more people to recognize her when a lot of people don't even know she exists and what she can do. Meanwhile, DC has no problems letting everyone know Harley Quinn exists and is trying to change her life, I guess.

Eh, Vixen's done alright in other media. JLU, Legends. You want DC Entertainment not properly promoting a character, try Power Girl, who hasn't had any of that. One single appearance, voiced by er...Allison Mack. That and skins in games are about it for PG.

Back on topic however, Vixen could be a pretty good addition to the League IMO.

[9th.]

Eh, Vixen's done alright in other media. JLU, Legends. You want DC Entertainment not properly promoting a character, try Power Girl, who hasn't had any of that. One single appearance, voiced by er...Allison Mack. That and skins in games are about it for PG.

Back on topic however, Vixen could be a pretty good addition to the League IMO.

I've always liked Vixen as an addition to the team because not only is she extremely powerful it adds another woman to the team.

[lemonpeace]

I'd say Red Hood but I feel that would be too on the nose, so I'll go a little risque and say Black Lightning. now yes, Black Lightning MORE than deserves to be a Leaguer and it's really overdue that he gets to stand shoulder to shoulder with the biggest names, however, I think Black Lightning shouldn't be a member of the actual Justice League team. the League should be an organization and he should be a member but i've grown to appreciate Black Lightning choosing to work outside the League. he can team up or get called in to help with large scale threats but it would be cool if Black Lightning just took over Outsiders (seeing as he's the most consistent Outsider) and have that he his team; no more Batman and the Outsiders, have it be Black Lightning & the Outsiders or simply (ideally) just The Outsiders.

[MoneySpider]

Eh, Vixen's done alright in other media. JLU, Legends. You want DC Entertainment not properly promoting a character, try Power Girl, who hasn't had any of that. One single appearance, voiced by er...Allison Mack. That and skins in games are about it for PG.

Back on topic however, Vixen could be a pretty good addition to the League IMO.

JLU was early 2000s, but I'll give you Legends since that was recent (although her depiction there could have been better). There was also the Vixen animated "series" on CW Seed, which also could have been handled better in terms of how they could better marketed the show and the run-time of each "episode". She was also included in the "Injustice 2" video game, but only as a premier skin for Cheetah and not her own character with her own signature styles, powersets and moves, which made no sense, since Vixen can mimic ALL animals, not just cheetahs.

But all momentum that Vixen recently had in other media seems to have come to a standstill. They didn't even put her in either iteration of "Superhero Girls", a show in which she would have been a natural fit. Bumblebee would be the tech whiz and Vixen could have been the fashion guru/fashion designer/teenage model/teenage social justice/animal rights crusader. But instead they decided to throw Harley Quinn in there, of all people.

So for me it's not only is she being used, but HOW she is being used if/when she shows up anywhere.

[Riv86672]

Thanks! I mean, if someone doesn't agree with my reasoning that's cool; different strokes for different folks right? But I like to explain why I've come to the conclusions I have, and hope others do the same. Makes for a fun debate and I think it's good to challenge our opinions with strong arguments.

Also, big fan of your avatar. Recently discovered MHA and I'm really digging it.

^^^Wether I agree w. it or not, a well laid out post is the best kind of post to read!

Glad you’re digging MHA; I came to the party late on the show, but binging the first two seasons was pretty fun.

Indeed. Adding Steel or John Stewart to the team in place of a popular white original just fosters resentment from fans of the original. (And provides cover for people who never seemed to give a crap about Hal before John showed up to claim to be 'fans of the original' while flying their freak flag.)

^^^its amazing how that is absolutely guaranteed to happen. Then all conversation shifts to dealing w. that, as opposed to what these characters actually do/don’t bring to the table other than skin color.

Indeed. Better to go with someone who *is* an original 'first of their name,' like Vixen or Black Lightning, who aren't legacies of anyone, and, in the case of Lightning, has *his own* legacies, in the case of his daughters.

That might be an interesting thing to see, someday. Legacies of characters like Vixen. And not just legacies, but, as Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, etc. can have minority legacies, have a *white person* spun off from a traditionally black character. Have a *male* legacy of Wonder Woman. Superman has Supergirl. Batman has multiple Batgirls and Batwomen, over the years. Why not a dude, inspired by Diana, and tied to Greek myth in some way (or just a gun-toting Steve Trevor!)?

^^^Wow, I wish someone would pursue this at DC. An Elseworlds or series where we see 20 minutes into the future and characters like you describe, i’d definitely pick up.

[Ascended]

^^^Wether I agree w. it or not, a well laid out post is the best kind of post to read!

Glad you’re digging MHA; I came to the party late on the show, but binging the first two seasons was pretty fun.

Honestly I'd rather read a post I dont agree with. You get better conversations out of knocking your views together than you do when all you can say is "I agree!"

I came into MHA late too. Last September or something maybe. Someone posted a video of All Might here (comparing his powers to Golden Age Superman) and I thought my kids might like it. Turns out I enjoy it just as much as they do. Maybe more, actually. And have since binged the first three seasons and all the English manga.

[SiegePerilous02]

Not to mention, asking for Diana to have a male spin off when the two Wonder Girls and the rest of the Amazons are treated so poorly is.... kind of having the wrong priorities.

Yeah they really should prioritize given what page space they have to Wonder Woman's female cast. For regular male characters, they should just limit it to Steve, a co-worker/friend of Steve (either Darnell or Michaelis, maybe both) and Ferdinand. The rest of the focus should be on Hippolyta, Donna, Etta, Cassie, the Kapatelis women, the Amazons, etc.

[j9ac9k]

It seemed for a bit that Jason was going to be a male spin-off or legacy hero for Diana. I guess he still could be if someone wanted to bring him back.

In terms of the original topic, I love The Question (Vic) and he was used to awesome effect in "JLU," but in comics, he really has no place as a member of the League. I can see him being used on occasion to investigate something, but that's it. He's better on more human level stories rather than fighting world-ending threats.

[Zero Hunter]

With the way it is set up now because of Bendis I don't think Superman should be in the league. He is "President of Earth" or some stupid nonsense so that should leave him no time to be in the League.