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  1. #346

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    Cross-post

    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    First, a cartoonverse concept of the Magnus family, by Ferreira-404.



    Second, this creation by j_carter_x.



    Finally, this nice collection shot by 4261NN. They've done several over time but I like this one particularly. It further shows the value and interest in the sisters.

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  2. #347
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Wanted to share something I found at Bleeding Cool, it looks like Magneto got tired of Logan always getting mind controlled so he shared his helmet with him it will be interesting to see the story on Wolverine #3.



    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/a-ne...in-3-spoilers/
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  3. #348
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    I don't think Quicksilver is on Krakoa, maybe he's rolling with a mutant faction that are being adored by Order of X and so see no need 'serving in heaven when they rule in hell' as it were

  4. #349
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    Quicksilver ain’t no mutant

  5. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Wanted to share something I found at Bleeding Cool, it looks like Magneto got tired of Logan always getting mind controlled so he shared his helmet with him it will be interesting to see the story on Wolverine #3.



    https://bleedingcool.com/comics/a-ne...in-3-spoilers/
    Not a fan at all of the overuse of Magneto's helmet quite so many other characters diluting it and its presence.

    On a separate note Marvel should in time answer the telepath/TK power issue with Lorna. It makes no sense for her not to have protection when she can make a metal composite over her head that does the same and as we have seen is willing to wear metal on her head.
    Last edited by jmc247; 07-03-2020 at 01:49 PM.

  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Quicksilver ain’t no mutant
    In my canon he is

  7. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I don't think Quicksilver is on Krakoa, maybe he's rolling with a mutant faction that are being adored by Order of X and so see no need 'serving in heaven when they rule in hell' as it were
    A serious reply to your not at all serious one

    Pietro has never actively sought a leadership position in his adult career, that I can remember. Either he’s being mind controlled by Maximus and thus not actually in charge of groups like the Zodiac; being asked by the High Evolutionary to be more of a minder than anything else to the Knight of Wundagore; turning down leadership of the Acolytes because they had just finished killing hospice patients; and instructing at Avengers Academy to prove he’s back on the side of the angels despite every other person rolling their eyes at the Skrull excuse.

    So what would a genuine non-mind controlled attempt at leadership look like for him? His varied history as an Evil Mutant, Avenger, member of X-Factor, Magneto’s Genoshan cabinet, and even the above can see this going in a variety of directions along the political and moral spectrum, even on today’s Krakoa. I can’t see him putting up with the worship of the Order of X for long, because he doesn’t have the patience for pomp and circumstance. At best, he might try to turn them into a nonprofit organization that promotes mutant inclusion and repealing anti-mutant laws so they can actually be useful to the cause. Certainly if he ever in charge of a team, he would have to smooth his abrasive aloofness to effectively gain the respect and trust of his team from the start, or have to prove really damn quickly and effectively why he should have it despite those flaws. But the true test would be, would anyone actually flock to his banner? Interesting. The only person I could think of that might come would be Amelia Voght, if only to catch up on him after all these years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    In my canon he is
    Same, he is my favorite son of my favorite son, and always will be.

  8. #353
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    The AoA version was a leader.

  9. #354

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    Marvel using Magneto's helmet with everyone comes off to me like they're desperate to use an iconic set piece for visual thrills at the cost of killing its value.

    You have the Superman crest. It means something because of the characters who typically wear it. It represents the high ideals and inspirational sentiment that Superman specifically and the Super family as a whole bring to bear. Sometimes, in certain specific scenarios, it can mean something more - e.g. a lot of people wearing it to show they support Superman and the things he represents.

    Now imagine virtually everyone wearing the crest, all the time. How long before the crest is just a pretty picture devoid of any real meaning? How long before it gets misused, and that misuse happens so often that it might even come to mean the exact opposite of what it was meant to stand for?

    And this is an actual full-blown symbol that I'm talking about. Something that was actually created with original, deliberate intent to have symbolic value.

    Magneto's helmet isn't even that. It wasn't meant to be a symbol. It was meant to serve first an aesthetic purpose specific only to him, then later a functional purpose that is also specific to him - and by way of constant use has also come to be representative of him and his values.

    Can Magneto's helmet serve useful narrative purposes not limited to him? Absolutely. But those purposes have value only if used judiciously, within the right contexts.

    Lorna using Magneto's helmet during the wedding had value because it represented a) her mentality shift in that moment to an extreme vicious stance more in line with her father, and b) Magneto as her father which would be confirmed in later issues (or more accurately, would be re-raised in later issues and confirmed a decade later). Lorna using Magneto's helmet on Wolverine and the X-Men had value because it represented a) how broken mentally and emotionally she was following the destruction of Genosha in the future, and b) how deeply that version of Lorna cared for her father that had been killed in Genosha's destruction. The helmet served a purpose special to her circumstances as a character AND as Magneto's daughter.

    .... While Wolverine wearing a copy of Magneto's helmet is Marvel lazily going "Hey we wanna have Wolvs safe from psychic intrusion, and hey while we're at it let's tack on Magneto's helmet cause it's so cool."

    What Marvel COULD have done is give Wolverine a helmet modeled after his iconic costume that functions in the same way as Magneto's helmet. That would've made more sense, to me. It's also something I've advocated for Lorna as general wear - that her headgear can and should function the same way.


    There's one difference though. With Lorna and Magneto, I've always seen headgear working that way on them because of their powers. I've noted quite often that Lorna's powers could be used in pseudo-psychic ways. By extension, they could be used for psychic protection, and a helmet or piece of metallic headgear could perhaps be the instrument for it or a buffer. Whereas Marvel's going "lol the helmet just do cause it be helmet" in this case. Which, back to the Superman crest example, is kinda like saying Lex Luthor is suddenly as good as Superman if he slaps some paint on his chest in that shape.

    In the end, Marvel's gonna do whatever they wanna do whether it makes sense or not, whether it's good story or good business or not, same as always. But it doesn't change how things are at the base of it.
    Last edited by salarta; 07-03-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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  10. #355

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    You and jmc247 raise a good point. It’s a lazy dilution of one character’s symbol to give another a boost, as if he needs it. Why would Max give out his helmet like party favors, when someone could use it to learn how to overcome those telepathic defenses, thus rendering it useless. It’s the only reason I can think of for not giving some version of it to his kids, who constantly get mind controlled. And while I’m at it, what about that Shiar anti-telepathy tech he gave to Briar Raleigh to keep his secrets safe, but not to Lorna who was attacked by some AU version of Malice? It makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    The AoA version was a leader.
    Ah, but that one was inducted into the X-Men from the start by a reformed Magneto trying to be the new Charles. They both knew they were related, and didn’t have the toxic relationship they had in 616. Pietro was in the position Scott was in 616, the leader in training.

    It’s certainly wild to look back and see Exodus respectfully taking orders from Pietro, who was himself looking for leadership from his father. It shows that such a dynamic is possible in one universe.
    Last edited by teapartyofthedead; 07-03-2020 at 03:00 PM.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    You and jmc247 raise a good point. It’s a lazy dilution of one character’s symbol to give another a boost, as if he needs it. Why would Max give out his helmet like party favors, when someone could use it to learn how to overcome those telepathic defenses, thus rendering it useless. It’s the only reason I can think of for not giving some version of it to his kids, who constantly get mind controlled. And while I’m at it, what about that Shiar anti-telepathy tech he gave to Briar Raleigh to keep his secrets safe, but not to Lorna who was attacked by some AU version of Malice? It makes no sense.
    Briar was another character who was given a Magneto helmet cover in the Magneto ongoing. Rogue wore the helmet for beating the piss out of Red Skull. Some other x-character I never heard of had a cover with the helmet and in X-Men Red most of the Avengers and X-Men wore it for telepathic protection against Cassandra Nova.

  12. #357

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    ‘Egregious’, is the word that comes to mind.

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    ‘Egregious’, is the word that comes to mind.
    Yes, at the end of the day Pietro and Lorna using it for specific purpose or symbolic iconography like Son of M was fine. But, they have diluted the impact by giving everyone including Captain America a moment in the sun with it.

    In terms of Lorna I don't expect them to sort out any time soon the telepathic protection issue, but it is something that does need to be sorted out in time.

  14. #359
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Not a fan at all of the overuse of Magneto's helmet quite so many other characters diluting it and its presence.
    I donīt think three times can be considered overuse, 1.- by Jean who borrowed it to use with the Avengers, 2.- by Rogue to defeat Red Skull and 3.- by Wolverine and going by Percy comments it seems it was with Magnetoīs permission because he will be on the issue.

    I guess I donīt see much problem because I am not that attached to the helmet as a telepathic defense given it came from the movies, heīs able to defend himself without it just fine but I like the story and symbol behind other characters using it, for example Jean used his helmet while she was fighthing Cassandra Nova over Genosha, it feelt right to use indirectly Magnetoīs helmet as a defense after what she did to the country and for it to be the reason for her defeat, in the case of Rogue and Red Skull itīs self explanatory because he has a conflitcted relationship with the both of them and in the case of Wolverine given the writter wants to make the point of Magneto being an actual X-man and part of the team it makes sense to see him help somoeone who had reason to hate him but now they got to an understanding. I think thereīs a storytelling justification for the use of the helmet and itīs not being done just because.

    On a separate note Marvel should in time answer the telepath/TK power issue with Lorna. It makes no sense for her not to have protection when she can make a metal composite over her head that does the same and as we have seen is willing to wear metal on her head.
    I think given her powers Lorna should be able to develop natural defenses for telepaths just as Magneto has in fact I think we saw some of them on her fight with Ultimate Malice on the Bunn issue and I agree itīs something marvel can develop for her in future stories.

    About the question on Magnetoīs children and mind control I guess the case itīs because marvel likes the family drama but it doesnīt seem to think too much on the practicalities that come with interaction between the characters, I can see a story reason for that, like the Twins not wanting to have anything of Magneto including his helmet and itīs telepathic defenses but in the same way I can see a story where they, just like Jean, see the advantages of the helmet at least even if they dislike completely the person who made it.

    In the case of Lorna I think Magneto if he didnīt do that already when they were living on Genosha would be happy to show Lorna how to defend herself from telepathic attacks using her own powers, I mean, it makes complete sense and itīs in character for them both to be close and talk about their powers but for some reason marvel has yet to make that story, I would like to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead
    You and jmc247 raise a good point. It’s a lazy dilution of one character’s symbol to give another a boost, as if he needs it. Why would Max give out his helmet like party favors, when someone could use it to learn how to overcome those telepathic defenses, thus rendering it useless. It’s the only reason I can think of for not giving some version of it to his kids, who constantly get mind controlled. And while I’m at it, what about that Shiar anti-telepathy tech he gave to Briar Raleigh to keep his secrets safe, but not to Lorna who was attacked by some AU version of Malice? It makes no sense.
    Briar bought that Shiart anti-telepathy tech herself if I remember well for protection from Emma mainly and other telepaths, it makes sense given she knew what she was getting into while she was helping Magneto on Madripoor in fact she paid for the base the O5 were using to stay on that country, she was also officially a member of the Acolytes before Krakoa, I hope to see her soon on Krakoa or interacting with Magneto again.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 07-03-2020 at 04:05 PM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    In the case of Lorna I think Magneto if he didnīt do that already when they were living on Genosha would be happy to show Lorna how to defend herself from telepathic attacks using her own powers, I mean, it makes complete sense and itīs in character for them both to be close and talk about their powers but for some reason marvel has yet to make that story, I would like to see it.
    Magneto training Lorna on how to use her powers was one of the core reasons she was on Genosha two decades ago. But, it was told he was doing it more then it was shown.

    On the helmet issue I remembered another one.


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