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  1. #316
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Yes but Pietro isnīt pagan as far as we know, he self identifies with being romani and Wanda was raised as a romani
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 06-02-2020 at 03:00 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  2. #317
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes but Pietro isnīt pagan as far as we know, he self identifies with being romani and Wanda was raised as a romani
    Pietro's beliefs have never been gone into. And yes, both were raised Romani. Both are Romani. For some reason, they just made Wanda pagan (probably because of the witchy stuff with Agatha), but it doesn't really suit how she was raised. It just would never happen.
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  3. #318
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I donīt know much about Romani people but I heard they have catholic, muslim and crthodox Christian beliefs, not sure if this is true for most of them and yes Pietroīs beliefs have never really been touched, it would be interesting to explore that side of his character he seems to me like someone traditional and close to his roots, he even has criticized Wandaīs use of magic sometimes.

    Agreed, according to the comic Wandaīs beliefs changed to pagan once she began her training with Agatha and before that she, just like Pietro, didnīt have any defined beliefs, I guess it was easier for her to make that change because they were not in contact with other Roma and have been living on the US for a while.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  4. #319
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    I don't think (speaking as a Jewish person) it's the same thing as casting a character who has a consistent ethnicity or set of parents. The idea that Wanda and Pietro are Romani/Jewish representation has always seemed weak to me. The Romani aspect is just magic stereotypes, but at least it's become a bigger part of their stories recently. But neither character has ever identified as Jewish, they were just retconned into being the children of a man who was later retconned into being Jewish. How to define representation is tricky but there has to be more to it than just who their parents are.
    Thank you for your perspective on the matter. It’s important to know every side of an issue. However, I agree with Lucy in the Sky who wrote, far better than I can:
    I agree about the criticism that from this perspective, Pietro and Wanda donīt really felt part of the jewish community because they are romani, still, I think that what teapartyofthedead liked about Taylor casting was that he as a jewish actor was representing this part of Wanda and Pietro thatīs mostly ignored but is still there in the comics,at least before the retcon.
    That’s basically it. Pietro has displayed being religious before, while never specifying what religion. Before the retcon, he was at least of Jewish descent as well as Romani, but could potentially have been raised Muslim or orthodox Christian by the Maximoffs. If that’s so, I would love to see it actually followed up on instead of merely allowed to atrophy due to a blatant corporate move. Same with resolving how Wanda handles being pagan with also being Romani and Jewish descent. Marvel wrote themselves into a corner because they never thought to consult anyone about these sorts of things, much less have sensitivity readers. Instead of being swept under the rug as if they were a dirty secret of Marvel’s, I want them to put the effort, time, and care they’ve been long overdue.

  5. #320
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I donīt know much about Romani people but I heard they have catholic, muslim and crthodox Christian beliefs, not sure if this is true for most of them and yes Pietroīs beliefs have never really been touched, it would be interesting to explore that side of his character he seems to me like someone traditional and close to his roots, he even has criticized Wandaīs use of magic sometimes.

    Agreed, according to the comic Wandaīs beliefs changed to pagan once she began her training with Agatha and before that she, just like Pietro, didnīt have any defined beliefs, I guess it was easier for her to make that change because they were not in contact with other Roma and have been living on the US for a while.
    There are Romani that have different religions. Most of them in the area that Wanda and Pietro were born are Muslim. But there are also a traditional set of beliefs not associated with any other religions. And even for Romani that practice other religions, they still also hold traditional beliefs. Which forbid a lot of practices involved in Pagan religion.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  6. #321
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    There are Romani that have different religions. Most of them in the area that Wanda and Pietro were born are Muslim. But there are also a traditional set of beliefs not associated with any other religions. And even for Romani that practice other religions, they still also hold traditional beliefs. Which forbid a lot of practices involved in Pagan religion.
    Thank you thatīs very interesting it would be interesting if marvel introduced this part of Wanda and Pietroīs life.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  7. #322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I want to see Exodus try to woo Polaris, in order to give Magneto an heir
    OMG! I would love for this happen!

    I love the character of Exodus, Polaris, and Magneto. Maybe if you throw Paris and Lorna on a team together he can get to wooing her. Maybe though before Lorna can become more individualized and get away from her and Havok always being together...cause she snore than him. And I know I am biased, but I just really hate them together. And maybe her and Exodus can talk about their mistakes together(cause lets be honest they have both made many mistakes, been through heavy trauma, have crises of faith)and I think it’s a pretty good pairing.

    And I am under the impression that Exodus is not such a popular character...and in a way neither is Lorna these days(at least not as much as she used to he or when compared to the Summers, Emma Frost. Kate Pryde, etc.)so maybe they can both do favors for e a other and Marvel can push them into the limelight and make them popular this way.

    I would love this.

  8. #323
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthingzamasing View Post
    OMG! I would love for this happen!

    I love the character of Exodus, Polaris, and Magneto. Maybe if you throw Paris and Lorna on a team together he can get to wooing her. Maybe though before Lorna can become more individualized and get away from her and Havok always being together...cause she snore than him. And I know I am biased, but I just really hate them together. And maybe her and Exodus can talk about their mistakes together(cause lets be honest they have both made many mistakes, been through heavy trauma, have crises of faith)and I think it’s a pretty good pairing.

    And I am under the impression that Exodus is not such a popular character...and in a way neither is Lorna these days(at least not as much as she used to he or when compared to the Summers, Emma Frost. Kate Pryde, etc.)so maybe they can both do favors for e a other and Marvel can push them into the limelight and make them popular this way.

    I would love this.
    I donīt know if they would work as an actual romantic pairing but their interactions could be very interesting and help them both develop their povs on Krakoa and the actual situation on mutants, I also would love to see this.

    Some news and rumors for Magneto in the MCU

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertain...oic-turn.html/

    MCU: 'X-Men First Class' Could Be the Key to this Iconic Villain’s Future Heroic Turn


    While the multiverse may play a role, Marvel Studios is also reportedly planning a big twist on a major X-Men character. If that’s true, the MCU already has a template to draw from for inspiration: 2011’s X-Men: First Class.

    For its many successes, Fox’s X-Men series also had a few undisputed misfires. Even if they turned a profit in theaters, most fans do not hold X-Men Origins: Wolverine, X-Men: The Last Stand, and Dark Phoenix in high regard. And comics fans have a bigger gripe regarding how the movie’s handle Marvel’s mutants.

    Despite the wide range of characters in the comics, the Fox movies almost exclusively center on Professor X, Magneto, and Wolverine. The complex dynamic between those first two casts a large shadow over many X-Men stories. But it also feels repetitive after a while, as the X-Men constantly face off against Magneto.

    Thus far, the MCU has done a terrific job of upending expectations with its depiction of Spider-Man. And according to reports, it will similarly switch things up for the X-Men. Magneto, the news claims, will only be a villain very briefly — perhaps only in his first appearance — before becoming an ally to the Avengers.
    This looks like Magneto will be more of a stand alone character in the MCU once he makes his main apparition and leave the part of main X-men villain to Mr Sinister or Apocalypse and acording to Kevin Feige first ideas about him with Captain America meeting a young Magneto during WWII , he seems to want to make Magnetoīs story closer to the Avengers side of things, they could even use his story about fighting Hydra to make him an ally to Falcon and the Winter Soldier while they fight Baron Zemo and the Hydra agent who used Wanda and Pietro on the MCU was actually an adversary of Magneto and Xavier in the comics.

    I think this could be a very resfreshing take on his character and would allow the MCU X-men to depart from the Fox movies by making new material with new interesting villains.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  9. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by allthingzamasing View Post
    OMG! I would love for this happen!

    I love the character of Exodus, Polaris, and Magneto. Maybe if you throw Paris and Lorna on a team together he can get to wooing her. Maybe though before Lorna can become more individualized and get away from her and Havok always being together...cause she snore than him. And I know I am biased, but I just really hate them together. And maybe her and Exodus can talk about their mistakes together(cause lets be honest they have both made many mistakes, been through heavy trauma, have crises of faith)and I think it’s a pretty good pairing.

    And I am under the impression that Exodus is not such a popular character...and in a way neither is Lorna these days(at least not as much as she used to he or when compared to the Summers, Emma Frost. Kate Pryde, etc.)so maybe they can both do favors for e a other and Marvel can push them into the limelight and make them popular this way.

    I would love this.
    Based on what I've heard concerning Exodus so far, I don't support it. Comes across to me like it would set up a scenario where Lorna's status as Magneto's heir gets stolen from her and handed to Exodus just like so much else of Lorna's history has been stolen or stripped from her over time.

    Being close friends with Jean, having survived the Genoshan genocide and experienced trauma from it (and in fact, having been on Genosha at all), having been the second woman to join the X-Men, existing for over 50 years now. Even Lorna being Magneto's daughter again, the Avengers side (or rather, a certain editor there) bent over backwards to insist she couldn't be his daughter and tried to replace Lorna as a sister figure with other characters in Wanda and Pietro's lives. As I've seen it so far, this would amount to Exodus becoming the "new Magneto heir" and Lorna losing that status to become a politically convenient trophy wife for his benefit. Which would be worse than Havok, because at least with Havok she would still have her status as Magneto's heir.

    None of this is me saying "Havok should be forced on Lorna and treated poorly for his benefit" either. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    The only way I see a Lorna x Exodus scenario working involves two criteria. 1) Lorna needs a hell of a lot more time focused on her, rectifying decades of misuse and catching up on past wasted opportunities. 2) At least when it comes to matters of Magneto, Lorna needs to be the one clearly in higher authority.

    Now, Lorna interacting with Exodus as a general matter, I can see being fine. There's a lot of potential there, e.g. Lorna perhaps a bit annoyed with Exodus being excessively devoted to Magneto.

    As for popularity, Lorna's never actually been given a chance to demonstrate how popular she can be. The closest she's come was Gifted, which was its own take on her lacking many options her 616 version has, and which got horribly undermined in season 2. I know with absolute certainty that with a creative team that cares and Marvel actually giving her a real shot with much-needed support, Lorna could sell a solo ongoing. But without both, it's basically a situation like the 1980s Supergirl film where bias within the company sabotages her options.
    Last edited by salarta; 06-09-2020 at 03:30 AM.
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  10. #325
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I really would like to see Exodus interacting with anyone besides Apocalypse, Mr Sinister or Magneto I think his character needs to develop as a more down to earth character, we donīt know much about him and given Lornaīs magnetoīs daughter it would be interesting to know if he would see her as a kind of compettition like he saw Pietro or in a romantic sense, I donīt think Lorna would see him that way but who knows, he have never seen them talking, interacting or been together for us to know how would they relate with each other.

    He and she have in common their work on the acolytes so they could go from there to talk about Krakoaīs and maybe that would be a way to know what the Acolytes have been doing on Krakoa.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  11. #326

  12. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I really would like to see Exodus interacting with anyone besides Apocalypse, Mr Sinister or Magneto I think his character needs to develop as a more down to earth character, we donīt know much about him and given Lornaīs magnetoīs daughter it would be interesting to know if he would see her as a kind of compettition like he saw Pietro or in a romantic sense, I donīt think Lorna would see him that way but who knows, he have never seen them talking, interacting or been together for us to know how would they relate with each other.

    He and she have in common their work on the acolytes so they could go from there to talk about Krakoaīs and maybe that would be a way to know what the Acolytes have been doing on Krakoa.
    Exodus actually first appeared in 90s X-Factor's tie in to Fatal Attractions though since then Lorna and Exodus have never talked once. Exodus was on Genosha for all of one issue and by in large they have operated in separate worlds.

    Hickman has set up Exodus to be a player, but how big remains to be seen. Right now Exodus is relevant to the politics of the island and Lorna is not. Though she will have a side role as detective, unless she has a different role related to the council I doubt we will see them together.

    A reasonable goal with Lorna and Exodus is having them actually interact and sort out how they see one another. Any kind of more interesting relationship with that would require Magneto out of the picture.

  13. #328
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    Exodus actually first appeared in 90s X-Factor's tie in to Fatal Attractions though since then Lorna and Exodus have never talked once. Exodus was on Genosha for all of one issue and by in large they have operated in separate worlds.

    Hickman has set up Exodus to be a player, but how big remains to be seen. Right now Exodus is relevant to the politics of the island and Lorna is not. Though she will have a side role as detective, unless she has a different role related to the council I doubt we will see them together.

    A reasonable goal with Lorna and Exodus is having them actually interact and sort out how they see one another. Any kind of more interesting relationship with that would require Magneto out of the picture.
    I agree they first have to sort out how they see one another but I donīt think Magneto needs to get out of the picture for this given he has been very hands off with both Exodus and Lorna unless he wantīs to ask them for a favor. He may even be the link for them both to begin to talk to one another imo.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  14. #329

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    Thanks juan.

    I think it's testament to how flimsy the whole retcon on Magneto being Lorna's father was that not only did it take a while for Marvel to come up with an explanation for where the robot came from, but the half-baked reason behind its creation didn't even make it into a comic. You had to go digging deep into outside material.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

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  15. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I agree they first have to sort out how they see one another but I donīt think Magneto needs to get out of the picture for this given he has been very hands off with both Exodus and Lorna unless he wantīs to ask them for a favor. He may even be the link for them both to begin to talk to one another imo.
    If Magneto turns the House of M habitat into more of a political faction then the chance of them finally meeting grows yes. But, anything more then that is tough if the faction is just appearing from time to time on the core title for a couple panels.

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