Magnus Family Appreciation 2020

[king of hybrids]

As a strictly pedantic point, I feel like relying on the amount of time passed since Axis isn’t a sound strategy; seeing as the Spider-Man writers are still straining against OMD or DC has spent 30 years retconning the retcons of COIE

[GenericUsername]

As a strictly pedantic point, I feel like relying on the amount of time passed since Axis isn’t a sound strategy; seeing as the Spider-Man writers are still straining against OMD or DC has spent 30 years retconning the retcons of COIE

As far as Wanda, I don't think there can be much strain. Because Marvel had no problem ignoring her mutant roots for the most part for 50 years. And ignoring the Mags is her dad retcon for 30. They love ignoring family dynamics the most unless it's written as a crucial central point to the characters. Which is why there are so few examples of Marvel families. And also why despite them setting up that Wanda would spend more time with Billy and Tommy, it hasn't happened. That was 10 years ago. So it isn't that it's just been six years since AXIS, it's that this is a pattern that Marvel has had with Wanda over the decades. And with her being in zero solicits all the way up to March and in zero ongoings since last April, it's likely to continue.

[WallStreeter]

As far as Wanda, I don't think there can be much strain. Because Marvel had no problem ignoring her mutant roots for the most part for 50 years. And ignoring the Mags is her dad retcon for 30. They love ignoring family dynamics the most unless it's written as a crucial central point to the characters. Which is why there are so few examples of Marvel families. And also why despite them setting up that Wanda would spend more time with Billy and Tommy, it hasn't happened. That was 10 years ago. So it isn't that it's just been six years since AXIS, it's that this is a pattern that Marvel has had with Wanda over the decades. And with her being in zero solicits all the way up to March and in zero ongoings since last April, it's likely to continue.

Marvel did not ignore Wanda’s mutant roots. Not all mutants have to be in the X-Men. She is a grown woman who doesn’t always have to be with her family. Plus she made her own.

[WallStreeter]

so you agree wandavision won't make her a mutant, and considering olsen's contract is finite you can't safely predict that she will even be present when the x-men come, so it cements a non mutant wanda with an origin in witchcraft in the public eye, wich that + time will finaly cement the retcon.

and no amount of ewing "liking" wanda will change that OR the A-Office having all the power and no reasons to make her a mutant once more.

It’s not really for him or anyone to disagree. The final decision will be whatever Feige decides. He has complete creative control over all Marvel properties.

I don’t like everything Marvel does. No one does. However, just because we don’t like something doesn’t mean it can’t happen or that it won’t happen.

Marvel is definitely teasing the twins are mutants. I can see Feige reversing the retcon for the purposes of MCU storytelling purposes.

There’s no reason to argument over this. It either will happen or it won’t and whatever happens has nothing to do with what’s said here.

[GenericUsername]

Marvel did not ignore Wanda’s mutant roots. Not all mutants have to be in the X-Men. She is a grown woman who doesn’t always have to be with her family. Plus she made her own.

They did though. She was known as a mutant. It wasn't central to most of her stories. What big stories outside of her intro and HoM were crucial to her?

[Ferro]

Marvel did not ignore Wanda’s mutant roots. Not all mutants have to be in the X-Men. She is a grown woman who doesn’t always have to be with her family. Plus she made her own.

she wasnt involved on any mutant stories, period, she never interact with excalibur, x factor, or any other mutant teams.
OR even got any tie ins or even references to mutant issues such as mutant massacre, inferno, onslaught, she showed up after genoshas destruction but not much and even in those issues her anoyance and distrust were clear.

you can remove "mutant" from her history and there's very little you actualy have to change.

[Zelena]

They love ignoring family dynamics the most unless it's written as a crucial central point to the characters.

Shouldn’t it be always the case in a writing? What would be the point in bringing it up if it doesn’t play a part in a story.

Marvel has never been that consistent in considering their characters as real persons: I find them quite balanced considering all the traumas they went through.

The real thing that is important is if Wanda being a mutant is something that could be interesting. I think it’s the case. The story remains to be told.

[GenericUsername]

Shouldn’t it be always the case in a writing? What would be the point in bringing it up if it doesn’t play a part in a story.

Marvel has never been that consistent in considering their characters as real persons: I find them quite balanced considering all the traumas they went through.

The real thing that is important is if Wanda being a mutant is something that could be interesting. I think it’s the case. The story remains to be told.

I don't believe in having facts about characters that aren't used. It serves no real purpose. Wanda shouldn't be retconned back because of hopes and dreams of what could be. She's been retconned enough. Mags as her dad was a retcon itself. And they never really did anything with it.

Like I've said before, in 50 years they barely did anything central to her being a mutant. In 30 years they never hardly did anything with Mags being her Dad. With both offices handling things so differently, and them also changing Franklin, that's not likely to change. It'll be two years since they got the rights back in the spring. They brought back the F4 immediately.

I'm not banking on hopes and dreams. And I don't want my favorite character retconned back for that. I just want her back in books. Which her link to mutants thrust her out of.

[juan678]

[Steel Inquisitor]

she wasnt involved on any mutant stories, period, she never interact with excalibur, x factor, or any other mutant teams.
OR even got any tie ins or even references to mutant issues such as mutant massacre, inferno, onslaught, she showed up after genoshas destruction but not much and even in those issues her anoyance and distrust were clear.

you can remove "mutant" from her history and there's very little you actualy have to change.

This erases her time in the X-men books and how she still got problems over being a mutant as an Avenger. You could say the same for Beast or Roberto, but they never get any of this backlash for being Avengers. Mutants do live outside the X-books and not every mutant has the same experience - this is why the Morlocks hated the X-men.

[Ferro]

This erases her time in the X-men books and how she still got problems over being a mutant as an Avenger. You could say the same for Beast or Roberto, but they never get any of this backlash for being Avengers. Mutants do live outside the X-books and not every mutant has the same experience - this is why the Morlocks hated the X-men.

berto and hank still reacted to mutant issues, berto was in mutant massacre and inferno, beast was in x factor, these characters being on the avengers doesnt erase the fact they had actual roles on mutant stories.
And i brought up orbiting x-men teams for that very reason, she never interacts with other mutant's, period.

Like ever, she was never in a mutant related story before HoM, not even on inferno where her magic could have played a role, she didn't show up, and a lot of marvel characters had inferno tie in's.

You add that complete seperation to the fact her avenger tenure never used her mutant status as a story element to drive the team forward. You look at thor, at vision, at black panther and carol etc and their origins create stories and adventures for the team that have them as the lead of the team into their own familliar territory.

Every wanda focused avenger story is focused on her magic and her conection to chton, never her mutant status, never what it means to her, never about a villain that targets the avengers because of her mutant status, its ALL about her sorcery.

[Zelena]

Every wanda focused avenger story is focused on her magic and her conection to chton, never her mutant status, never what it means to her, never about a villain that targets the avengers because of her mutant status, its ALL about her sorcery.

And it is that I found interesting: being a mutant always meant little to Wanda.

It was refreshing as opposed as all these people for whom being a mutant is a thing so important. The Morlocks and Nightcrawler didn’t have a choice: their “mutantness” is written on their face. But for the others their difference is more internalized. It can be hidden or very visible if they use their “fabulous powers”. The conscience of being different is being amplified by being with others that had experience of being different too… (and by all these human persecutions…)

But for Wanda, being with other mutants, was being with the Brotherhood, not a very brotherly experience. She got along, a while, with Magneto’s ideology and then she broke with him. Her affiliation to the Avengers is a result of a choice, not because it was her fate.

It’s not because no writer has ever written a interesting story about Wanda’s peculiar situation that it can’t be done.

[Ferro]

And it is that I found interesting: being a mutant always meant little to Wanda.

It was refreshing as opposed as all these people for whom being a mutant is a thing so important. The Morlocks and Nightcrawler didn’t have a choice: their “mutantness” is written on their face. But for the others their difference is more internalized. It can be hidden or very visible if they use their “fabulous powers”. The conscience of being different is being amplified by being with others that had experience of being different too… (and by all these human persecutions…)

But for Wanda, being with other mutants, was being with the Brotherhood, not a very brotherly experience. She got along, a while, with Magneto’s ideology and then she broke with him. Her affiliation to the Avengers is a result of a choice, not because it was her fate.

It’s not because no writer has ever written a interesting story about Wanda’s peculiar situation that it can’t be done.

okay then it's not issue its gone now, that's what me and other's say

[Steel Inquisitor]

berto and hank still reacted to mutant issues, berto was in mutant massacre and inferno, beast was in x factor, these characters being on the avengers doesnt erase the fact they had actual roles on mutant stories.
And i brought up orbiting x-men teams for that very reason, she never interacts with other mutant's, period.

Once again Wanda's time in the Stan Lee era of X-men is ignored, since that would undermine the argument being presented.

It also shows that issues of Roberto and the Beast haven't been read by you. Here's a reminder of them being X-men and Roberto hasn't just a random Avenger he founded and lead two Avenger teams. Roberto and cannonball were regulars in Hickman's Avengers run.

https://uncannyxmen.net/sites/defaul.../sunspot38.jpg

She helped the X-men in Onslaught in their own titles, her brother is also an on and off again member of the Avengers.

Like ever, she was never in a mutant related story before HoM, not even on inferno where her magic could have played a role, she didn't show up, and a lot of marvel characters had inferno tie in's.

Stan Lee's X-men, I suggest you read it.

Being in an X-men crossover isn't what being a mutant is all about, Brian Braddock was in that crossover you may as well say he's a mutant because of it. All characters need is to be born the x-gene, that's the prerequisite to being a mutant in Marvel. Not every mutant is in the X-titles. The reason she wasn't there isn't because she wasn;t a mutant it's because the writers and editors didn't want her there and there are hundreds of characters with that justification. Not every mutant was even in Inferno.

You add that complete seperation to the fact her avenger tenure never used her mutant status as a story element to drive the team forward. You look at thor, at vision, at black panther and carol etc and their origins create stories and adventures for the team that have them as the lead of the team into their own familliar territory.

And it's not like Roberto and Beast's being mutants were defining their identity there. Roberto was defined more as a businessman and Beast as a happy-go-lucky quirky character.

Every wanda focused avenger story is focused on her magic and her conection to chton, never her mutant status, never what it means to her, never about a villain that targets the avengers because of her mutant status, its ALL about her sorcery.

Except she hasn't just been an Avenger, she's been in many issues of the X-men - that's where she debuted. Her origin is being recruited by Magneto from a mob with her brother, who were both extorted into his service beaches they owed him their lives. It's not like Wanda started in the Avengers titles all her life. Her mutant status isn't front and centre in Avengers but that doesn't make her any less of a mutant when she was a mutant. It's like saying just because Roberto wasn't targeted by mutant hate groups in his Avengers teams he's not a mutant. Being a mutant is more than what their lifestyle is about and who attacks them, it's a gene they're born with. By those standards the X-men fail since the Morlocks are a thing. Distinct social differences between mutants is being completely ignored here to justify attacking Wanda to retroactively erase the issues where she was a mutant before the retcon.

This arbitrary justification is an excuse to deny her being a mutant in those stories, when she fit that description for most of her life in 616 until it was retconned away very recently. Wanda Maximoff was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby in X-men #4 in March 1964 as a mutant.

[Ferro]

and wolverine was originally a hulk villain, it doesn't matter especially since they leave at issue 11 to never be seen again on the main x-men title, that origin barely needs her to be a mutant and doesnt change with the current status quo.

Comparing her to bobby and beast is just pendantic, they aren't the same at all especially on their conections to mutants and how important it is to their identity and character compared to wanda that is either apathic or antagonistic towards mutants, hence why nothing was truly lost with the axis reveal as she went on to have a solo that was quite good.