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  1. #151
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanotherclassic View Post
    This issue was fun, and I am all about the DOL origin. Not sure entirely how I feel about the retcons to Peggy's origin, but I love the team moment at the end.

    The art shifts were annoying.
    While I LOVED this issue and the weaving of the Daughters of Liberty (honestly, I'd love a book of them throughout history, it would be so great, I'd also love to get an issue for each Daughter on the current team to see how each one was recruited), Peggy's ret-con bothered me a bit, too, though I'm not quite sure if I'm being hyper sensitive because of my fear of the MCU influencing the comics and that's causing my perspective to be tainted enough to look for reasons to be annoyed by Peggy or I'm legitimately irked without bias. But the idea of Peggy being assigned to Steve, as a Daughter during WW2, and sleeping with him, without him knowing that he was an assignment (and has remained ignorant of that till now) seems... not right, ethically speaking. And yes, I realize that there have been plenty of Marvel romances where characters who were assigned to one another fell in love, Natasha and Bucky being one example, but at least with Nat and Bucky, they were both entirely aware of their situation and loved despite it, there was full agency there. With Steve, he was completely naive, moreover, Peggy was in love with someone else, someone she couldn't be with due to racism and intolerance, which makes it seem like she was using a young, naive Steve Rogers to both monitor him and to fill the void of intimacy she wasn't getting from who she truly wanted. Which is kind of icky.

    Yet on the other hand, it does establish that what Steve has with Sharon is true, so the contrast was good for that.

    Regardless, the Peggy irk is a minor thing. Overall, I loved the Daughters, their history, the way that Coates wove it into the Cap mythos and I loved this panel quite a lot (because of it's utter and stark truth *cough*2016presidentialelection*cough*)...



    And JFC I'm so glad Sam and Bucky were in this issue. FREAKIN FINALLY. Now the Cap!fam is all back together. My heart is lighter (and full).

    Poor Steve...



    He's just so tired. As Sam pointed out in this book, Steve's life has just been one tremendous hell after another. See, now I want him to adopt Star-baby more than ever. Let him have some happiness.

  2. #152
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    They cute!


  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    While I LOVED this issue and the weaving of the Daughters of Liberty (honestly, I'd love a book of them throughout history, it would be so great, I'd also love to get an issue for each Daughter on the current team to see how each one was recruited), Peggy's ret-con bothered me a bit, too, though I'm not quite sure if I'm being hyper sensitive because of my fear of the MCU influencing the comics and that's causing my perspective to be tainted enough to look for reasons to be annoyed by Peggy or I'm legitimately irked without bias. But the idea of Peggy being assigned to Steve, as a Daughter during WW2, and sleeping with him, without him knowing that he was an assignment (and has remained ignorant of that till now) seems... not right, ethically speaking. And yes, I realize that there have been plenty of Marvel romances where characters who were assigned to one another fell in love, Natasha and Bucky being one example, but at least with Nat and Bucky, they were both entirely aware of their situation and loved despite it, there was full agency there. With Steve, he was completely naive, moreover, Peggy was in love with someone else, someone she couldn't be with due to racism and intolerance, which makes it seem like she was using a young, naive Steve Rogers to both monitor him and to fill the void of intimacy she wasn't getting from who she truly wanted. Which is kind of icky.

    Yet on the other hand, it does establish that what Steve has with Sharon is true, so the contrast was good for that.
    Honestly, the ethical issues of a Steggy relationship didn't cross my mind until you mentioned it. I was caught up on her joining the fight, in part, because of a failed relationship rather than it being the right thing to do. Injustice and wrongness is still at the core, but the love interest thing seemed a bit unnecessary.


    As for the Steve/Sharon bit, I am glad it resolved. I think it was an interesting artistic choice to have Steve telling Sharon that he needed her on his team mirror the poses of a proposal -- Steve kneeling down on one knee and holding her left hand.

    tumblr_54ca94bed6887ed09e8203b1da950fd8_cf510dff_640.jpg

  4. #154
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanotherclassic View Post
    Honestly, the ethical issues of a Steggy relationship didn't cross my mind until you mentioned it. I was caught up on her joining the fight, in part, because of a failed relationship rather than it being the right thing to do. Injustice and wrongness is still at the core, but the love interest thing seemed a bit unnecessary.


    As for the Steve/Sharon bit, I am glad it resolved. I think it was an interesting artistic choice to have Steve telling Sharon that he needed her on his team mirror the poses of a proposal -- Steve kneeling down on one knee and holding her left hand.

    tumblr_54ca94bed6887ed09e8203b1da950fd8_cf510dff_640.jpg
    It was this page, it kinda makes it seem like she was using him for kicks, might as well have fun while on assignment, type thing, especially as we know she loved someone else...



    But, like I said, at least it removes Peggy firmly from being romantically paired with Steve in this run, showing us that the comics probably wont end up like the MCU, which is fantastic. They didn't try to paint Peggy as this first love Steve he never got over (which was a concern I had when she first appeared in this run, as I've stated before), and that's ultimately the outcome I had hoped for. I'm glad of it, whichever way it took us to get there.

    And yes, Steve's posing there with Sharon was very sweet and tender. I definitely think Coates did it to contrast (which I'm also grateful for).

  5. #155
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    While I LOVED this issue and the weaving of the Daughters of Liberty (honestly, I'd love a book of them throughout history, it would be so great, I'd also love to get an issue for each Daughter on the current team to see how each one was recruited), Peggy's ret-con bothered me a bit, too, though I'm not quite sure if I'm being hyper sensitive because of my fear of the MCU influencing the comics and that's causing my perspective to be tainted enough to look for reasons to be annoyed by Peggy or I'm legitimately irked without bias. But the idea of Peggy being assigned to Steve, as a Daughter during WW2, and sleeping with him, without him knowing that he was an assignment (and has remained ignorant of that till now) seems... not right, ethically speaking. And yes, I realize that there have been plenty of Marvel romances where characters who were assigned to one another fell in love, Natasha and Bucky being one example, but at least with Nat and Bucky, they were both entirely aware of their situation and loved despite it, there was full agency there. With Steve, he was completely naive, moreover, Peggy was in love with someone else, someone she couldn't be with due to racism and intolerance, which makes it seem like she was using a young, naive Steve Rogers to both monitor him and to fill the void of intimacy she wasn't getting from who she truly wanted. Which is kind of icky.

    Yet on the other hand, it does establish that what Steve has with Sharon is true, so the contrast was good for that.

    Regardless, the Peggy irk is a minor thing. Overall, I loved the Daughters, their history, the way that Coates wove it into the Cap mythos and I loved this panel quite a lot (because of it's utter and stark truth *cough*2016presidentialelection*cough*)...



    And JFC I'm so glad Sam and Bucky were in this issue. FREAKIN FINALLY. Now the Cap!fam is all back together. My heart is lighter (and full).

    Poor Steve...



    He's just so tired. As Sam pointed out in this book, Steve's life has just been one tremendous hell after another. See, now I want him to adopt Star-baby more than ever. Let him have some happiness.
    Everything you said.

    Crossed my mind we know so little about who Peggy was and her background, even her role in WW2. So, I feel as if Coates is building a story about Peggy through the DOL, and looking at it that way, I’m ashamed to say I never cared until now. She deserved her own story.

    And did I possibly misconstrue hints of Sharon’s return from “Remender Hell”. That cougar comment was a killer.

    And as aside to many if you, how do you get such large reprints/images posted to these forums. Mine start large and eventually shrink into obscurity.

    Oh, I’m sorry I complained about the lack of Buck, at least there’s hope he’ll be part of the team now.
    Last edited by tliscord; 02-19-2020 at 05:48 PM.

  6. #156
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Attachment 93434

    My assumption is this is a photograph of the pre Zola agent 13!

  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    And did I possibly misconstrue hints of Sharon’s return from “Remender Hell”. That cougar comment was a killer.
    That cougar comment had me literally laugh out loud. It was mean, but also a little funny. For me, however, it's funny because Steve clearly does not care about Sharon's age. But who knows? I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Sharon does end up young again by the end of this run due to whatever magic they're dealing with when it comes to returning a piece of her soul. (Also, still not entirely sure of the consequences of that still.)

    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    And as aside to many if you, how do you get such large reprints/images posted to these forums. Mine start large and eventually shrink into obscurity.
    Honestly, usually I pull screenshots that I've otherwise posted on my tumblr account and link to there.

  8. #158
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    Kind of a 'blah' issue to me...
    Peggy's back because....reasons.
    The evil witch used to be one of the good guys and is pissed because Sharon shwacked her husband so stole a piece of her soul for revenge.

  9. #159
    Extraordinary Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    CAP 1.jpg


    This is a joke, right?
    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  10. #160
    Aged Howler tliscord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    CAP 1.jpg


    This is a joke, right?
    I know, I know. Caught my eye and kind of hovered over that for awhile. Right now I’m choosing to ignore it as nothing more than her general involvement with the Russian red room...... refuse to read too much into it (he says with that shrinking feeling in his soul)

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    They cute!

    Yeah, they cute!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorrek VIII
    What if the Kree and Skrull quarantined in the same rooms together? Aha ha, just kidding... unless...?

  12. #162
    Extraordinary Member Winterboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tliscord View Post
    I know, I know. Caught my eye and kind of hovered over that for awhile. Right now I’m choosing to ignore it as nothing more than her general involvement with the Russian red room...... refuse to read too much into it (he says with that shrinking feeling in his soul)
    Alexa Lukin was a key to the Winter Soldier Program?????
    The OVERRATED Coates is ruining Brubaker’s run!

    CAP 2.jpg
    In august of 1988, After his years bodyguarding Major General Vasily Karpov in the Middle East, The Winter Soldier was placed into stasis.

    CAP 3.jpg
    In Brubaker’s Captain America (2005) #1, we saw that Aleksander Lukin refused to sell the Winter Soldier's body in stasis to Red Skull, this happened around the year 2000.
    In the same issue, Lukin himself said that the Winter Soldier was apparently very useful in the Cold War. Alkesander Lukin was Karpov’s protégé (Captain America #5),
    if the Winter Soldier had been brought out of stasis, he would have known.
    , In other words, WINTER SOLDIER WAS NOT USED BETWEEN 1988 AND 2000!
    Alexa Lukin was not the key to the Winter Soldier Program because there was no winter soldier program anymore!

    Alexa Lukin?
    Respect my favorite Captain America run, Mr. Coates.
    "Who wouldn't go out with the Black Widow? I'd strangle a litter of kittens for one dinner with her!"
    Adrian Toomes aka the Vulture


    "Natasha Romanoff, A.K.A. Black Widow - ex-KGB, formerly with S.H.I.E.L.D...Probably the brains of this operation.I have followed her career, and she has been consistently UNDERRATED."

  13. #163
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Steve in Captain Marvel #15...




  14. #164
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    low key would've been more powerful without the world bubbles

  15. #165
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    CAPTAIN AMERICA #22
    TA-NEHISI COATES (W) • BOB QUINN (A) • Cover by ALEX ROSS
    DARK MARVEL VARIANT COVER BY PATCH ZIRCHER
    ”All Die Young” continues! For Peggy Carter to live again, must Sharon Carter pay the price?
    32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

    Oh hell nah!



    This better be misleading. But hey, I remember one of you guessed evil!Peggy before, and that may be just what this is?

    On the brighter side, gorgeous Alex Ross cover is gorgeous...


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