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  1. #76
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    Since the end of Asmus' solo till KT's R&G his character was just as badly treated as it was during the Milligan/Carey/Gage era, except this time Rogue wasn't that much around for people to put the blame on her.

    In X-Factor he was a horndog whose solution to every problem was shoving his tongue in it, he was reduced to a shallow individual with good looks whose personality seem to only revolve around him being handsome, to the point of putting him naked on a cover. PAD's Gambit was all looks but no substance.

    Deadpool vs Gambit was a trash fire that made no sense, heck a Z-list character like Scrambler had almost as much panel time as him.

    In Soule's Astonishing he was pathetic once again, and the only time he did something cool was when he was being mind controlled by the Shadow King. Jeez! The SK used his power better than him -.-

    X-men Gold depicted him as an incompetent buffoon whose ineptitude was responsible for the death of a lot of innocent people.

    In X-men Red he was wallpaper for the vast majority of the series, I remember the jokes of Gambit developing a secondary mutation of being great at silently standing around in the background. He only did something cool or relevant in the last issue.

    Granted, at least he wasn't focused or worried about Rogue all the time.

    I'm not gonna put all the blame on Rogue nor pretend that if he wasn't married things would be going great for him, like a divorce would magically solve all his problems. That small recap shows that even when she is barely around, Gambit can still be treated like crap.

    I put the blame in the the writers and editors at Marvel. IMO the fact that he is married should not be any hindrance for a competent writer. Sadly for one reason or another there has been a shortage of good capable writers that are also interested in the character, and there in my opinion is where lays the biggest problem.
    X-Factor - Gambit was a single man doing what a lot of single men do. Especially ones with a reputation as a ladies man. In the end he was actually a useful member of the team and we got to see him develop relationships with characters he hadn't previously. So good or bad, it was something different.

    DvG - Again while it was not good, it was still something new in the sense he got to interact with Deadpool and Scrambler. Two guys with a shared or limited history.

    Soule's ASM - Agreed, this was terrible and really the start of Gambit's entire character being focused on Rogue.

    X-men Gold - Agreed pretty terrible showing.

    X-men Read - Not a lot of focus but he was actually shown as a competent and powerful character that guys like Thor respected. I would think this one showing over 50 issues of Thompson's or Howard's Gambit. It is probably his best showing in like the last 5 years.

    Of course it is always the writers faults because these are fictional characters. But in the end that is like saying it is not Mr. Sinister's fault he is an evil villain. It is meaningless. We love or hate characters based on how the writers write them and the problem with Romy is the writers far too often one or both of them are written horribly. That is what people like Neko and I have been saying from the start and that has come to pass.

    Howard's Gambit is the logical and inevitable evolution of Thompson's Gambit because in both his story was less about him and more about Rogue. He is written simply as Rogue's preferred penis at the moment and all his characterization flows from that. Like Thompson, at some point right before the book is canceled, she may get around to telling a decent Gambit story but neither of these writers cares about Gambit outside of his relationship to Rogue. He is basically a woman's fantasy husband whose entire being is wrapped up in serving his wife.
    Last edited by remydat; 01-14-2020 at 03:36 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  2. #77
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    Yep, I think you hit the nail right on the head here. This is the real problem Gambit has right now. Aside from Kelly Thompson I can't think of a single writer working at Marvel that actually likes the character.
    Kelly doesn't like Gambit so much as she likes Romy so long as Gambit is subservient to Rogue. Probably more accurate to say she doesn't outright hate him like a lot of other writers. I have yet to met a single Gambit fan that has ever hated on the Asmus solo as much as Kelly did and her biggest gripe there always seemed to be that Rogue wasn't at the forefront of his mind.

    The only way I see Romy ever working is in a different medium. Comic book writers are inherently biased and quite frankly they are in a niche business where they can afford to allow their personal views on a character to influence their work. Comics are less about story and character development so it doesn't matter if they shit over a character they don't like.

    By contrast, Romy would work better in say a movie, book or TV show where making money is the bottom line as more likely to find a director/writer that is going to be fairer to both characters because those are driven more by plot and character development than comics these days.
    Last edited by remydat; 01-14-2020 at 03:44 PM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  3. #78
    Dazed and Confused Neko's Avatar
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    Agree with you Remydat. A different medium would work best for Romy, in-fact, hire a paranormal romance novelist. The fans who love romy would get a better HEA (happily ever after). Certainly not the stuff in the comic books where nothing of merit will be highlighted with the marriage. The development and relationship would get front and center stage with some drama thrown in or adventure to add to it. It would still be exciting and fulfill the romance part more organically than what has been shown in a medium that no longer has enough pages to devote to anymore than whatever story they want to tell. Before poo-poo-ing romance novels, if you ship, then this is really where it should be showcased because that is where the relationship story gets the attention it deserves.

    Edit:

    BTW Marjorie Liu who took quite a bit of heat here and other places, wrote a short story for romy and it was actually good. Because the format was not comic book but novel based storytelling.
    Last edited by Neko; 01-19-2020 at 02:45 PM.
    "My superpower? I'm irresistible to women." Gambit- ANXF #9
    Gambit's kittens: Oliver, Lucifer and Figaro: Oliver and Company.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I was also one of the older members that mostly quit following the X-Men, and especially Gambit's character, because of the marriage. It has gone exactly like we all said it would. This isn't any different than the stories Thompson wrote that we complained about back then. In her stories Gambit had zero agency and his whole character revolved around Rogue and Rogue's problems. He was there to support her story rather it being an even split. This is just a continuation of what we were getting back then. With Gambit having no agency and just worrying over Rogue constantly. So the marriage is the issue because it reduces Gambit's character down into being just a supporting role in Rogue's ongoing stories. It is what always happens when the two are stuck together in a book. The marriage locks him into that role with even less room to move around than he might otherwise have.

    You can criticize or not like the stories Gambit was in pre-marriage, but at least they didn't revolve around Rogue. He interacted with other characters and had more agency and choice in his direction and actions. I'd take those kind of stories every time over Gambit being Rogue's personal supporting character.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I was also one of the older members that mostly quit following the X-Men, and especially Gambit's character, because of the marriage. It has gone exactly like we all said it would. This isn't any different than the stories Thompson wrote that we complained about back then. In her stories Gambit had zero agency and his whole character revolved around Rogue and Rogue's problems. He was there to support her story rather it being an even split. This is just a continuation of what we were getting back then. With Gambit having no agency and just worrying over Rogue constantly. So the marriage is the issue because it reduces Gambit's character down into being just a supporting role in Rogue's ongoing stories. It is what always happens when the two are stuck together in a book. The marriage locks him into that role with even less room to move around than he might otherwise have.

    You can criticize or not like the stories Gambit was in pre-marriage, but at least they didn't revolve around Rogue. He interacted with other characters and had more agency and choice in his direction and actions. I'd take those kind of stories every time over Gambit being Rogue's personal supporting character.
    Whatever one thinks of the marriage it's impossible to argue that Tini writes it any other way. If the marriage wasn't in play it's doubtful that she would be writing Gambit at all. Barring being forced by some Editor that is. That opens up the speculating. If Gambit wasn't in Excalibur where would he be then? This question is based on Marvel realising that Gambit sells to much to ignore.

    So If I had to guess where he would be, not where I want him to be, I would pick: Marauders. With the exception that I don't remember what Duggan thinks about the character. It makes the most sense to have him in that comic.

    X-force is a bit to focused on killing.

    Fallen Angels would make sense in that Laura is there. The thing is gambit would counteract whatever influence Kwannon would insert upon Laura and kid-cable. So therefore he can't be in that title.

    New Mutants is a no go for obvious reasons.

    X-men isn't a team book in that sense.

    Upcoming books also feel a bit off. X-factor perhaps. If that title dosen't turn out to be a train wreck. Still that is moot seeing Gambit is to big to be excluded from the first wave.

  6. #81
    Dazed and Confused Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Kelly doesn't like Gambit so much as she likes Romy so long as Gambit is subservient to Rogue. Probably more accurate to say she doesn't outright hate him like a lot of other writers. I have yet to met a single Gambit fan that has ever hated on the Asmus solo as much as Kelly did and her biggest gripe there always seemed to be that Rogue wasn't at the forefront of his mind.
    My opinion:

    The other thing to note is that she never liked his attributes. She didn't like he was a thief and ho-hummed over it. It was a deterrent for her and the Asmus solo. She didn't care for it thus it had to change.

    She never gave Gambit a shot story-wise, she wanted to change him and she did. While his status was the same in general, probably due to editorial not wanting those changes (Thieves Guild). She changed him enough.

    She might have given him action sequences but nobody knows this Gambit. Those who don't mind that, great. Glad you were happy with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    You can criticize or not like the stories Gambit was in pre-marriage, but at least they didn't revolve around Rogue. He interacted with other characters and had more agency and choice in his direction and actions. I'd take those kind of stories every time over Gambit being Rogue's personal supporting character.
    Agreed. It's going to take another Asmus or someone to fix Gambit.

    Just an opinion.
    Last edited by Neko; 01-14-2020 at 07:03 PM.
    "My superpower? I'm irresistible to women." Gambit- ANXF #9
    Gambit's kittens: Oliver, Lucifer and Figaro: Oliver and Company.

  7. #82
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    At this point I have given up on Gambit in the comics. I just hope he eventually appears elsewhere without all the shitty Rogue baggage.

    Hopeful at least that by the time my currently unborn child is old enough to read comics or watch a PG-13 movie, someone will have done somethimg meaningful with the character.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    Hopeful at least that by the time my currently unborn child is old enough to read comics or watch a PG-13 movie, someone will have done somethimg meaningful with the character.
    Just wanted to say - congrats on baby on the way What a blessing and wonderful way to kick off the new decade!

  9. #84
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    Yes-congrats remydat!

    I’ll admit that I’m not loving Excalibur, but Gambit had the only moment of ‘agency’ in the whole book. Gambit sending Rachel to ‘wake up’ rogue early, was practically the only thing any of the character that wasn’t because apocalypse manipulated them into it. Betsy is only captain Britain because apocalypse set it up, the exisits because those where the characters apocalypse summoned. Even rogue beating him in the end was because he let her, for reasons...

  10. #85
    Dazed and Confused Neko's Avatar
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    Congrats remydat. Very exciting time for you. Good Health to you and your family.

    As far as comics go, I'll just see what comes out next and see if there is something that appeals to me.
    "My superpower? I'm irresistible to women." Gambit- ANXF #9
    Gambit's kittens: Oliver, Lucifer and Figaro: Oliver and Company.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I’ll admit that I’m not loving Excalibur, but Gambit had the only moment of ‘agency’ in the whole book. Gambit sending Rachel to ‘wake up’ rogue early, was practically the only thing any of the character that wasn’t because apocalypse manipulated them into it. Betsy is only captain Britain because apocalypse set it up, the exisits because those where the characters apocalypse summoned. Even rogue beating him in the end was because he let her, for reasons...
    Totally see your point here. I remember reading one review where they describe Betsy as the pseudo leader of Excalibur with -[A]- pulling all the strings. It's frustrating, and probably moreso for Gambit having to witness all this and be party to it.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Congrats, Remydat! Happy for you and your family, my friend.

  13. #88
    Fantastic Member Sparta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    At this point I have given up on Gambit in the comics. I just hope he eventually appears elsewhere without all the shitty Rogue baggage.

    Hopeful at least that by the time my currently unborn child is old enough to read comics or watch a PG-13 movie, someone will have done somethimg meaningful with the character.
    Many congrats buddy!

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Gambit vs Wolverine
    Ultimate comics 50


  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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