Scott was against the idea of Xavier and the Avengers basically forming an "acceptable" version of the Illuminati, to make sure the Super Hero Registration Act wouldn't come to pass, but the government would still trust the heroes. He thought it was wrong to give so much power to a small group of people and Jean went along with it, apparently because she thought what happened during Dark Phoenix Saga was enough to justify Charles, Captain America and Iron Man pulling the strings on all the heroes. So she dumped him.
That Jean and Logan idea actually comes from Claremont. He said his idea was that because Wolverine's healing factor makes him essentially immortal and Jean would always resurrect, they will be the last two people alive in this world and be together till the very end. And then they would consummate their love and that would cause a new big bang and create the new universe.
Thank you! Personally I think Scott was overreacting so I don't get his issue with what Charles and Jean did. I've read articles about how even in Claremont's run it seemed like Wolverine was being primed as Xavier's natural successor rather than Cyclops so I don't think it's entirely OOC.
That's fine, just wanted to move onto more positive things. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like an easy accomplishment for this particular appreciation thread.
In terms of the current era, I really would have liked to have seen more of their reunion other than the end of Rosenberg's run. Considering how they seem to be now, it feels like it would be/have been important.
Last edited by TheDeadSpace; 06-20-2020 at 06:39 PM.
"This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot"
-Spider-man
“Evil is evil...lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same."
-Geralt of Rivia
How? leaving the world to be policed by a certain group of super powered people is not a good solution and it's the whole reason World war hulk and the secret wars happened. He was perfectly in line to be mad about that. And claremont changed his mind about Logan and Jean out of spite. Not because it was something he naturally wanted. Can we stop deraling into more talk about how logan and jean are great for each other in the jott thread? They have their own thread for that.
Responding to a comment is one thing, but to keep going on about the other couple is another.
You need to calm down. LP22 was talking about how Claremont had issues with Scott/Jean so he wanted Logan in the mix and then he talked about that AvX story and I just told him that they are connected because Claremont envisioned an ending like that.
And because I don't agree with Scott on the situation, that makes me a hater of him? Particularly when another user was kind enough to remind me about the context of that issue. Anyway to answer you, I don't have any issue with Charles' decision because World War Hulk only occurred because they didn't succeed in landing Hulk on a barren and unoccupied planet. As for Secret Wars, that was always going to happen anyway and the only reason the MU survived that fallout was because of the Illuminati. Frankly, I think Scott was just jealous that he wasn't the one representing mutantkind there and I think that was even hinted at or said by another character.
I'm perfectly calm
I wasn't calling you a hater, I was asking how was he overreacting to something that most people would react to knowing a group a people want to have power over the entire world's outcome.
As far as Scott being jealous he's not representing mutantkind? I'd say that's more up to opinion,as even in 616 he didn't want that role, so I don't see why he'd be jealous of it here.With two people he admires and respects, because if he did, I don't see him still living with the X-men at all.
Well you were very rude in your response to me so you frankly sounded angry. But that's besides the point.
It's really not that different from world leaders today anyway. How much power does the average citizen have when it's presidents and prime ministers and their cabinets that are in full control and know plenty of things about world security that the average person will never know or even imagine?
If he didn't want it in the 616 universe, he would have stopped being the leader of the X-Men and left for good after both of Jean's deaths. He always comes back though and he willingly took upon the mantle of leading mutants after M-Day. Nevermind that Xavier was there, or Storm or Magneto. And even after AvX, he still couldn't stop despite being a terrorist and a murderer. In my opinion it's very clear that he was power hungry and couldn't give up the power (that's exactly what he did with the Phoenix Force) so perhaps the Scott in this timeline wasn't that far off from the 616 one. I can't see why he would be so angry when Xavier was doing exactly what he's always done like with the Z'Nox invasion. It really does seem like his bigger issue was that he didn't have a seat at the table.
Last edited by SpiderClops; 06-21-2020 at 01:11 AM.
At the time Storm was not an X-Character, but under the purview of the Black Panther writer. She was unavailable due to an editorial mistake - she SHOULD have been promptly put back into the X-Office after decimation, or M-Day, but she wasn't.
Xavier had lost legitimacy due to a number of his dark secrets coming out, plus after M-Day he was missing and depowered.
Plus, wasn't Magneto also missing for a while after M-Day as well?
Scott didn't assume control due to being power hungry, but because there was literally no one else with any real weight as a leader to be able to do so. Editors and writers had, by a combination of choice and accident (in Storm's case), cleared the table of anyone else who could take up the role. And this is coming from someone who thinks Scott is better suited as a team leader than a societal one.
But rehashing M-Day through AvX isn't what this thread is for - this is an appreciation thread for Scott and Jean's relationship. If you aren't able to do that, then why are you here?
Dark does not mean deep.
So let's address all of this.
This is a Jott thread so I think I have the right to explain why I used to be a fan and also why I am no longer a fan. Including how I haven't been a fan of Scott's character for two decades now and also how I'm finding him problematic even in the Claremont era. What I said about Logan not treating her as badly (he never cheated on her, dumped her, abandoned her, etc.) is the truth so if that bothers you that just goes to show that you know your favorite has some issues he needs to work out. And it's also 100% true that Wolverine is more popular than Cyclops so that's hardly an insult when everyone knows that. Would you get as uppity if I said that Spider-Man is more popular than Ant-Man in an Ant-Man thread and that's a known fact?
If you consider the fact that I've been let down as a Jott shipper so much that I really can't find it in myself to ship them anymore offensive that is your own prerogative. Jean was never with Cyclops when he was with Wrongclops so that really isn't offensive to this ship at all. If anything, the very existence of Wrongclops is offensive to Jott and part of the reason why Jott ended. I would think you'd be more understanding of that.
Scott doesn't have anything to complain about because he's not the one who was killed off because editorial wanted a fake blonde to move in on the relationship. Since Jean came back, has Scott ever once apologized for cheating on her and moving on? Or all of his terrorist actions during the whole period she was dead, including killing Professor X, after which Jean herself reached out from the White Hot Room and pulled the Phoenix out of Cyclops? I don't think it's offensive at all for Jott fans that Jean gets some closure because she and Scott haven't had a chance to hash out their issues that have been festering for 2 decades now. And most of those issues are rightfully blamed on Scott because Jean isn't the one who gave up on the marriage as you no doubt well know.
Because I think Scott overreacted in an AU comic, that makes me a hater of him? Lol, if I said I didn't approve of Jean's actions in one issue would that make it 100% impossible for me to ever like her? And how is it offensive that Claremont included hints that Wolverine would be Xavier's successor instead of Cyclops when that's exactly what ended up occuring in canon during the post-Decimation days? I do think Scott was jealous in that comic based on his attitude in the 616 universe because AvX proved he was power hungry and refused to give up the Phoenix. Once more, it was Jean who reached out and took that from him and helped him from the beyond and she even said he was being stupid. Is it offensive now to recount what occurred in the canon pages? He did kill the Professor so calling him a murderer is justified.
That whole post of yours was an unsuccessful attempt at a smear job against me and you purposefully ignored and didn't put in bold any of my positive comments towards the ship. I can like a ship without agreeing 100% with one of the characters in the ship but something tells me that you're more of a Cyclops fan than you are a Jott fan, hence why this was all so offensive to you. And I'll be the first to admit that I used to be a Cyclops fan mainly only because of being a Jean fan and a Jott fan.
Last edited by whitecrown; 06-21-2020 at 01:40 AM.
After Storm came back, she could have taken over. Cyclops never gave her a chance.
Dark secrets is ironic considering everything Cyclops has done out in the open since then.
Magneto came back eventually though so why couldn't Cyclops have let him lead if he felt Xavier's way wasn't working anymore?
He may not have been power hungry at the start but it's canon that he certainly was by the end as seen in AvX when he refused to give up the power, killed off Xavier, and Jean had to pull the power out of him.
I'm only bringing all this drama up to justify my point about why I didn't see why Scott had an issue with what Xavier and Jean did in Renew Your Vows and that's pertinent to this thread because it's what split them up in that universe. I was responding to other users, not you anyway.