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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    This is also why they almost have to be in some sort of established open relationship. Can you all really see Scott snd Wolverine just sharing Jean without some solid structure behind it? And sure, they're still buddy-buddy for now, but is that gonna last?
    Scott and wolverine sharing Jean is the most sexist thing that can happen after Jean getting back with Scott.

    These 2 date around a lot, but when Jean come back she have to be with them? hell no

    Comics, specially Marvel i son the base of Drama. If people don't expect drama they are wrong.
    Anyway this is setup that won't happen for many reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    I dunno, to most people, holding a married woman's hand isn't something you do (especially with that body language)... unless you're in a non-monogamous relationship.

    When people are dating in their 20s, there is a lot of, "We're not going to buy into that jealousy thing, we can be friends with whoever we want, etc." But, at a certain point (especially after marriage and the responsibilities therein) that concept becomes a lot less sustainable... especially when sexual attraction and jealousy figures in. Most people keep a certain 'distance' to avoid those sorts of complications.

    Whether they are full-on poly or not, the scene in Wolverine read a LOT more intimate than just 'friends.'

    ETA: Especially considering they were just about to go into combat. Neither Jean nor Logan need hand-holding reassurance (either literally or figuratively). This was so full of tension.
    I know plenty that have freedom for it. husbands aren't owners of women. Thi si sjust your tak eon it

    the text speak very loud that they are only friends. Anything beyond that makes the emotional moment of the comic feel flat

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Scott and wolverine sharing Jean is the most sexist thing that can happen after Jean getting back with Scott.

    These 2 date around a lot, but when Jean come back she have to be with them? hell no

    Comics, specially Marvel i son the base of Drama. If people don't expect drama they are wrong.
    Anyway this is setup that won't happen for many reasons
    It just feels to me like she's a "prize" to Scott and Logan and they're sharing her until something happens.

  3. #198
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Scott and wolverine sharing Jean is the most sexist thing that can happen after Jean getting back with Scott.

    These 2 date around a lot, but when Jean come back she have to be with them? hell no
    Two things
    How is Jean being or sharing Cyclops and Wolverine sexist? I'm not into it but i don't see the sexist part. If anything marvel is saying she is the one dominating both.

    Second, Cyclops didn't date around he technically was only with Emma and Wolverine didn't have anyserious relationship in between. Jean has story with them she being with one of them is more or less logical instead of someone that had nothing to do with her.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It just feels to me like she's a "prize" to Scott and Logan and they're sharing her until something happens.
    You aren't wrong. For me a poli setup just make Jean a thing to be shared around, there isn't nothing feminist on this setup.
    Stuck Jean on the same triangle that defined her and belittle hair, is not a solution. it is pretty much limiting the growth of the character

  5. #200
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post

    I know plenty that have freedom for it. husbands aren't owners of women. Thi si sjust your tak eon it

    the text speak very loud that they are only friends. Anything beyond that makes the emotional moment of the comic feel flat
    I forget how literal folks are here. I didn't think I needed to qualify the sexual dynamics. No, husbands don't own women (thanks for the strawman though). Most married people in committed relationships don't cross those lines... especially with people who the other partner has been/is jealous of in the past.

    Unless that situation has changed, like the implicit, if not explicit hints since DoX have been indicating.

    And, your adamant declarations of the nature of that scene, what works as stories throughout all these threads, and what has emotional resonance (as immutable laws of literature - as if there was such a thing), despite what (even people who don't like the implications) are agreeing is on the page, might just indicate that your powers of preception are higher than your powers of perception.

  6. #201
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Two things
    How is Jean being or sharing Cyclops and Wolverine sexist? I'm not into it but i don't see the sexist part. If anything marvel is saying she is the one dominating both.
    Exactly. If she's the one who is getting both, how is this a sexist thing against women. That's like saying a man with 2 women in bed with him is misandrist somehow?

    Sounds like Jean is getting her cake and eating it too, so to speak.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I know plenty that have freedom for it. husbands aren't owners of women.
    Careful now, you are getting dangerously close to the point.

  8. #203
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    The issue for me is just that Jean doesn't really feel like a huge part of the story here. When I think of the main characters here, Jean isn't one of them. She's still a supporting character to Scott and Logan and Emma.

    And yes, husbands don't own wife, I'm not against polygamy or marriage, but this situation isn't that. It feels less like Wolverine and Scott and Jean are together in this than it does Wolverine and Scott have put aside their differences and are, well, yeah, agreeing to share Jean.

    Yes, Wolverine is living with Scott and Jean as a member of the family, but we haven't seen him interact with both Scott and Jean.

  9. #204
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    You aren't wrong. For me a poli setup just make Jean a thing to be shared around, there isn't nothing feminist on this setup.
    Stuck Jean on the same triangle that defined her and belittle hair, is not a solution. it is pretty much limiting the growth of the character
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It just feels to me like she's a "prize" to Scott and Logan and they're sharing her until something happens.
    Neither Cyclops nor Wolverine need Jean, she isn't being shared to give each of them a piece. It is all the opposite they are both being there for Jean.
    Though the most likely result of this situation is that everything will break at the same time again so it is kind of pointless

  10. #205
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    Exactly. If she's the one who is getting both, how is this a sexist thing against women. That's like saying a man with 2 women in bed with him is misandrist somehow?
    Worse: They say both two men and a woman and two women and a man is misogynistic LOL.

  11. #206
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    Guys, Jean and Logan have made out in the throes of death multiple times without it meaning anything outside that moment. Them holding hands for one second as Jean refers to herself as his friend is not slightly salacious.

  12. #207
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    You aren't wrong. For me a poli setup just make Jean a thing to be shared around, there isn't nothing feminist on this setup.
    Stuck Jean on the same triangle that defined her and belittle hair, is not a solution. it is pretty much limiting the growth of the character
    Why do you see it this way instead of her having both people she wants? Women wanting more than one partner (where both people want her and is willing to forego jealousy to make it happen for her) is a common sexual fantasy.

    Why are you making her into a victim in this? It seems a little Madonna/Whore to me: either she's pure (and it seems that her purity is tainted for you even being with the imperfect Scott) or she's being tainted or belittled in some way.

    If this does become explicit on the page, and she declares that (hypothetically) she was the one to initiate the current arrangement, would you still think it was sexist?

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Two things
    How is Jean being or sharing Cyclops and Wolverine sexist? I'm not into it but i don't see the sexist part. If anything marvel is saying she is the one dominating both.

    Second, Cyclops didn't date around he technically was only with Emma and Wolverine didn't have anyserious relationship in between. Jean has story with them she being with one of them is more or less logical instead of someone that had nothing to do with her.
    you know that men have a fetish of seeing their wife sleep with other men, some even manipulate their wives to do it. So nothing feminist here.

    Second: these were the only love interests that she only ever got. A guy that cheated on her and one that tried to make moves even after she said no.
    The context of Jean/logan/Scott is high problematic.

    Scott and Logan still have more relationships than Jean, that makes it a lot worse even if not serious (debatable) or just one.

  14. #209
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Neither Cyclops nor Wolverine need Jean, she isn't being shared to give each of them a piece. It is all the opposite they are both being there for Jean.
    Exactly. It's interesting that the loudest voices of sexism are the ones assuming that the male characters are the subjects and Jean is the object... when it actually could be the other way around.

  15. #210
    Incredible Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Worse: They say both two men and a woman and two women and a man is misogynistic LOL.
    *Sigh* You're right, as usual. I need a good Krakoan tea right now. LOL.

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