The Rectangle 2020 - Logan/Jean/Scott/Emma Discussion

[TheCape]

the rejection of humanity by Krakoa is one hell of a dumb one. nothing clever on this, unless they think humanity is a monolith

They use human clothes, battle in a coliseum is a human thing, religion is a human thing.

I can't believe that i'm saying this, but yeah is true, don't know why some act like this mutant culture is a completly new thing, they are showing many traits and traditions that we have seen in humanity. Before someone tells me anything, i actually enjoy the books and i don't mind most of Krakoa being in the Gray side of the morality spectrum. Just than that particular details is a bit weird to me.

[houndsofluv]

the rejection of humanity by Krakoa is one hell of a dumb one. nothing clever on this, unless they think humanity is a monolith

They use human clothes, battle in a coliseum is a human thing, religion is a human thing.

they're using what they've learned socially to build something new that's more reflective of "them" and their values/beliefs. thats pretty much how all cultures develop

By the way, monogamy is not "human" culture. Many communities and religions had polygamy/polyamory as norms, some have still to this day. Mutants didn't invent that and passing it off as some big "rejection of human ways" makes them look like hipsters.

the polyamory doesn't have to be read as an eschewing of "human monogamy" - its a celebration of mutants and mutantdom, often written in a tongue-in-cheek tone because sex still makes people uncomfortable but from the perspective of story progression it isn't exactly an outlandish leap. mutants feel truly safe in their paradise and are making up for the pleasures that used to be more difficult to experience. Krakoa thus becomes a sort of hedonistic nirvana where mutants can live as irresponsibly as they were never able to in the eras of yore. think of how happy they must feel, how liberated - with this comes a higher capacity to love and be loved, to allow space for feelings carnal in nature....the rest is history

[spirit2011]

I can't believe that i'm saying this, but yeah is true, don't know why some act like this mutant culture is a completly new thing, they are showing many traits and traditions that we have seen in humanity. Before someone tells me anything, i actually enjoy the books and i don't mind most of Krakoa being in the Gray side of the morality spectrum. Just than that particular details is a bit weird to me.

krakoa doesn't survive to a bit of questioning, I have to question Hickman on his cleverness about this.
i always said since the beginning humanity isn't a monolith, there is hundreds of different cultures.
Seems like people skipped humanities on school

they're using what they've learned socially to build something new that's more reflective of "them" and their values/beliefs. thats pretty much how all cultures develop

Basically same as humans then?

the polyamory doesn't have to be read as an eschewing of "human monogamy" - its a celebration of mutants and mutantdom, often written in a tongue-in-cheek. tone because sex still makes people uncomfortable but from the perspective of story progression it isn't exactly an outlandish leap. mutants feel truly safe in their paradise and are making up for the pleasures that used to be more difficult to experience. Krakoa thus becomes a sort of hedonistic nirvana where mutants can live as irresponsibly as they were never able to in the eras of yore. think of how happy they must, how liberated - with this comes a higher capacity to love and be loved, to allow space for feelings carnal in nature....the rest is history

everyone is reading it as trashing human culture. That is the justificative of majority of fans.

celebrate muntant down on sex is pretty cultish.

they could live anyway they wanted, humans weren't opressing mutants. if they wanted to be poli nothing stopped them,

[SiegePerilous02]

There is no innuendo. It's very obvious Krakoa is a society where polyamory is not only easily accepted, but seems to be a rule. The only reason it's not spelled out it's so people that think that any woman that sleeps with more than one man is a whore can remain in denial.

It's also possible that Hickman is forced (to an extent) to use innuendos/teasing instead of outright confirmation because Marvel may be concerned that the dudebros in the audience will be upset about Scott and Logan's dicks touching.

[houndsofluv]

humans weren't opressing mutants.

pardon
10 char

Basically same as humans then?

I mean...they are humans. they were raised in human culture. we only know what we know, if that makes sense...

I think a lot of readers are taking the "separate mutant culture" angle too literally. obviously mutants culture isn't going to be something completely alien, its more an exploration of what it means to be homo superior without the pressures placed upon them by homo sapiens. what does the religion you've learned mean when you have the powers of, essentially, a god? etc.

this isn't crazy or new. look at North American culture today...you can clearly see the influence of the European cultures that colonized the land and yet life in North America now is distinctly different . you wouldn't call it the same culture per se. that's because attitudes change and develop, how people react to certain practices and beliefs changes and erodes over time, how technology develops contributes to this, how the economy develops, etc.

in mutant culture we can see human influences because all mutants were raised in human society. and yet, there are distinct differences in how they live because of unique experiences and attitudes

everyone is reading it as trashing human culture. That is the justificative of majority of fans.

celebrate muntant down on sex is pretty cultish.

they could live anyway they wanted, humans weren't opressing mutants. if they wanted to be poli nothing stopped them,

1) im not telling anyone how to read the work, art is entirely subjective blah blah. but a common interpretation doesn't translate to unquestionable truth and, frankly, I disagree that all readers are interpreting it as you say

2) okay? i think the closeness of the mutant community facilitated by mass decimations over the past couple decades is what contributes to this "cultish" sense a lot of readers talk about but idk if its the time or place to open that can of worms lol . also that isn't the only way we're seeing mutantdom celebrated its just the most controversial and thus the most discussed...maybe not the most controversial considering the crucible but I digress

3) social factors are extremely important and your argument here is ignoring them entirely. sure there was no direct ban on polyamory between mutants...but when your life is constantly in danger and you're focusing on different things. mutants don't fear this anymore; they're making up for lost time in a sense, experiencing things they didn't allow themselves to feel before because their survival was more important than more "frivolous desires", if you will.

[spirit2011]

It's also possible that Hickman is forced (to an extent) to use innuendos/teasing instead of outright confirmation because Marvel may be concerned that the dudebros in the audience will be upset about Scott and Logan's dicks touching.

marvel won't authorize poliamor because the appeal to the kids and sales.

marvel didn't even let the word "cramp" on a comic

pardon
10 char

read what I wrote. and is easy to see that not every community was against mutants

[SiegePerilous02]

marvel won't authorize poliamor because the appeal to the kids and sales.

marvel didn't even let the word "cramp" on a comic

Hence why it is subtext, but that doesn't mean it isn't clearly meant to be there and picked up upon by adult audiences.

And lol why are they concerned about kids, kids don't read comics these days. Not the ones you get in a comic shop anyway.

[spirit2011]

Hence why it is subtext, but that doesn't mean it isn't clearly meant to be there and picked up upon by adult audiences.

And lol why are they concerned about kids, kids don't read comics these days. Not the ones you get in a comic shop anyway.

Kids buy toys and watch cartoons that brings much more revenue than comics, tha tis why this is concerning for perlmutter.

Subtext? it is even weaker for subtext.

[SiegePerilous02]

Kids buy toys and watch cartoons that brings much more revenue than comics, tha tis why this is concerning for perlmutter.

Where is the concern for toys and cartoons when Wolverine (their most popular character) is hacking people to bits and his arch nemesis frequently tears them apart with his teeth and claws?

Subtext? it is even weaker for subtext.

I don't think you'd be so concerned about if you actually thought it was subtext...

[houndsofluv]

Where is the concern for toys and cartoons when Wolverine (their most popular character) is hacking people to bits and his arch nemesis frequently tears them apart with his teeth and claws?

oops double post

[spirit2011]

Where is the concern for toys and cartoons when Wolverine (their most popular character) is hacking people to bits and his arch nemesis frequently tears them apart with his teeth and claws?

Mostly of his appearence are on pg 13 like the cartoons and absolute majority of x-men movies

I don't think you'd be so concerned about if you actually thought it was subtext...

i'm concerned on Hickman butchering characters like he did on avengers

[houndsofluv]

Where is the concern for toys and cartoons when Wolverine (their most popular character) is hacking people to bits and his arch nemesis frequently tears them apart with his teeth and claws?

but NOW we said it!! this is more a social problem than marvel-specific but its so interesting that exposing children to violence is more accepted than exposing them to love expressed between consenting adults ... no ones lobbying for pornography in comics but if a straight couple like Scott and Jean can openly flirt what's so bad about Scott and Logan doing the same...whats so bad about different kinds of relationships being explored than the traditional nuclear couple..

[SpiderClops]

they're using what they've learned socially to build something new that's more reflective of "them" and their values/beliefs. thats pretty much how all cultures develop




the polyamory doesn't have to be read as an eschewing of "human monogamy" - its a celebration of mutants and mutantdom, often written in a tongue-in-cheek. tone because sex still makes people uncomfortable but from the perspective of story progression it isn't exactly an outlandish leap. mutants feel truly safe in their paradise and are making up for the pleasures that used to be more difficult to experience. Krakoa thus becomes a sort of hedonistic nirvana where mutants can live as irresponsibly as they were never able to in the eras of yore. think of how happy they must, how liberated - with this comes a higher capacity to love and be loved, to allow space for feelings carnal in nature....the rest is history

That is what hipsters do. Four characters that have never, not once, shown even the nanoscopic interest in polygamy/polyamory are now suddenly doing foursome. Sure. Clever writing. It's liberating them.

[spirit2011]

but NOW we said it!! this is more a social problem than marvel-specific but its so interesting that exposing children to violence is more accepted than exposing them to love expressed between consenting adults ... no ones lobbying for pornography in comics but if a straight couple like Scott and Jean can openly flirt what's so bad about Scott and Logan doing the same...whats so bad about different kinds of relationships being explored than the traditional nuclear couple..

Scott and Logan aren't gay, there was never hints about it. i'm against turning characters gays just to appease 5k people on twitter

[SiegePerilous02]

Mostly of his appearence are on pg 13 like the cartoons and absolute majority of x-men movies

That's still arguably more violence than we should be marketing to children.

That is what hipsters do. Four characters that have never, not once, shown even the nanoscopic interest in polygamy/polyamory are now suddenly doing foursome. Sure. Clever writing. It's liberating them.

Of these four characters, two of them are telepaths, one of whom has ascended to a higher plane of existence and become one with a cosmic force on more than one occasion, and another is an effectively immortal dude who has lived for at least a century if not longer. I'm pretty sure most, if not all of them, have also experienced death and resurrection at least once. Their thought processes and what they are willing to try are not going to line up 100% with real people.

For even broaching the subject and getting us to discuss this, this is clever writing. More clever than typical X-Men/superhero comics in general.

Scott and Logan aren't gay, there was never hints about it. i'm against turning characters gays just to appease 5k people on twitter

Bisexuality exists.