The Rectangle 2020 - Logan/Jean/Scott/Emma Discussion

[Tycon]

Don't like the two seems more impartial than being a big fan of the relationship.

So... lemme get this straight. You think that the best way to view things is coincidentally also how you view things? How do you not see that as a major bias? I’m not a HUGE Scemma fan but I enjoy the couple just like I enjoy Jott. Hating characters to the degree that you do seems to always result in misrepresenting their every action or misconstruing it so said character always looks bad instead of using some degree of objectivity.

No one in a relatioonship says this kinda of stuff, you don't need to scream it loud if the relationship exists. Seemed more wishful thinking of Emma than a solid relationship

No one is “screaming it loud.” And this isn’t a “yes they do/no they don’t” type debate. This is what people in relationships (both familial and romantic) can sometimes say to each other. there is no room for debate in this.

What temptations? that page of gossip?

idk maybe the two page acknowledgement of the Love Square

[spirit2011]

So... lemme get this straight. You think that the best way to view things is coincidentally also how you view things? How do you not see that as a major bias? I’m not a HUGE Scemma fan but I enjoy the couple just like I enjoy Jott. Hating characters to the degree that you do seems to always result in misrepresenting their every action or misconstruing it so said character always looks bad instead of using some degree of objectivity.

I'm not saying i'm impartial. That is impossible to be.
You gonna excuse but you are a big scemma fan, I already saw many of your posts being pro Scemma. Now I don't remember seeing much of your posts being pro Jott.

No one is “screaming it loud.” And this isn’t a “yes they do/no they don’t” type debate. This is what people in relationships (both familial and romantic) can sometimes say to each other. there is no room for debate in this.

People flirting? yes. But established relationships doesn't need this kinda of affirmative action, specially then the other part act like a on the case of Scott. It was one sided

idk maybe the two page acknowledgement of the Love Square

Where is the two page because there wasn't anything official about love square

[Tycon]

I'm not saying i'm impartial. That is impossible to be.
You gonna excuse but you are a big scemma fan, I already saw many of your posts being pro Scemma. Now I don't remember seeing much of your posts being pro Jott.

Well you’re just gonna have to trust my word.

People flirting? yes. But established relationships doesn't need this kinda of affirmative action, specially then the other part act like a on the case of Scott. It was one sided

The problem is you’re taking this super literal. No one is betting the love of their partner on the request they follow it up with. Something as simple as “I’ll love you forever if you get the lotion from upstairs” doesn’t literally mean I’m gonna run and go get the lotion because I want to affirm my love. You’re overanalyzing a simple sentence in a straightforward scene.

Where is the two page because there wasn't anything official about love square

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...o-boston-2019/

Rosenberg: No, no. Kind of the opposite actually. I wanted to acknowledge it–the love triangle… the love trapezoid, as it were. We were very deliberate in not having Jean and Scott fly off holding hands. They have a kiss and then everybody has couples therapy after that. It’s sort of the subtext I wanted. This isn’t the answer. These are people with real lives and people who mean a lot to each other and things aren’t just solved by a kiss or broken by a kiss. It’s a lot more complicated than that and that’s why I thought it was important to have Emma in there. I don’t know if I’ll ever write X-Men again. I don’t know if I need to, but I would hope that Scott and Emma–it’s a great relationship. It’s a super fascinating relationship that I love. I would hope that in the future, it comes back in some form and it is discussed and we can live in that world and what it means for Jean. Yeah, no, that was not meant for there to be finality.

[SiegePerilous02]

It's nostalgia because they got over the "side pieces" but some fans doesn't want to let go. The hardest things on comics is let things go

As you would know, right?

When did they ever get over their "side pieces"? And how is it nostalgia? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Comics have been selling a good amount on the last decade, just say to people that were buying and reading comics it isn't valid because it wasnt a big shifting status quo is very wrong.
So years of comics doesn't matter because it wasn't Hickman writing?
Dawn of X would lose more than half of the sales if Marvel doesn't want to cater to they regular costumers

They don't matter that much if it's not relevant in his direction, and again, DoX is designed to have a delicate but important balance of appealing to current fans, lapsed fans and new fans. Catering only to those who cling to the ongoing narrative and continuity of the comics no matter how much they often hate it isn't good business sense. It's a jumping on point that would be bogged down by stories that many of the people they need to attract for sales wouldn't be inclined to go back and read anyway.

Comics aren't a cheap hobby. Getting it at the ground floor on a clear new seismic shift moment is better than getting a "homework assignment" to read X, Y and Z by different writers of varying quality before you can even begin to understand what is going on with stories or characters. Marvel and DC need to do this every once and a while, and take risks, or else the industry will be in even more rough shape than it is. There wasn't much, if any, excitement around the X-Men in the few years before this relaunched. You may have liked it, but evidently not many people did.

Sure lots of people want to inject their own views and force it in characters

And clearly fans do that as well.

[spirit2011]

Well you’re just gonna have to trust my word.

I will go with my instinct

The problem is you’re taking this super literal. No one is betting the love of their partner on the request they follow it up with. Something as simple as “I’ll love you forever if you get the lotion from upstairs” doesn’t literally mean I’m gonna run and go get the lotion because I want to affirm my love. You’re overanalyzing a simple sentence in a straightforward scene.

She is talking baout herself and not about him. We know about her feelings and that means zero since Cyclops doesn't act or care about them,

https://www.adventuresinpoortaste.co...o-boston-2019/

What i son a interview is not canon. All these years Scott didn't cared about emma and was extremely cold about her. Jean also didn't care romantically about Logan

As you would know, right?

When did they ever get over their "side pieces"? And how is it nostalgia? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Scott got over Emma on Bendis run, Jean got over Wolverine when she got married.

They don't matter that much if it's not relevant in his direction, and again, DoX is designed to have a delicate but important balance of appealing to current fans, lapsed fans and new fans. Catering only to those who cling to the ongoing narrative and continuity of the comics no matter how much they often hate it isn't good business sense. It's a jumping on point that would be bogged down by stories that many of the people they need to attract for sales wouldn't be inclined to go back and read anyway.

Comics aren't a cheap hobby. Getting it at the ground floor on a clear new seismic shift moment is better than getting a "homework assignment" to read X, Y and Z by different writers of varying quality before you can even begin to understand what is going on with stories or characters. Marvel and DC need to do this every once and a while, and take risks, or else the industry will be in even more rough shape than it is. There wasn't much, if any, excitement around the X-Men in the few years before this relaunched. You may have liked it, but evidently not many people did.

new readers are extreme minority, Majority of readers are the ones that keep buying through years.

You don't need to take piss at old readers to please new readers. DC lost a chuck of their core when new 52 hit and new readers weren't a big number to sustain it.

Yeah comics aren't cheap, people buy them to matter. Ignore it because of new readers is pretty distateful and a bad strategy

And clearly fans do that as well.

At least some try to reason with chaarcters story instead of forcing their personal preferences

[Tycon]

She is talking baout herself and not about him. We know about her feelings and that means zero since Cyclops doesn't act or care about them,

She’s talking to him about her love for him. If Cyclops didn’t reciprocate it, then he would’ve said something.

What i son a interview is not canon. All these years Scott didn't cared about emma and was extremely cold about her. Jean also didn't care romantically about Logan

Oh great. So you’re putting your own personal interpretation of a scene explained in detail by the writer of the story and expecting us to accept what you’re saying?

[SiegePerilous02]

Scott got over Emma on Bendis run, Jean got over Wolverine when she got married.

Doesn't seem like either of those things are actually true.

new readers are extreme minority, Majority of readers are the ones that keep buying through years.

You don't need to take piss at old readers to please new readers. DC lost a chuck of their core when new 52 hit and new readers weren't a big number to sustain it.

Relying only on those readers is not wise. They NEED to keep trying to obtain new readers. Being unable to hooks kids to jump onto ongoing events and alienating them is killing the industry. Or is at least hurting the big two, other publishers don't have that specific problem.

And this isn't even a full blown controversial reboot like the New 52 was. This is just a relaunch, and I think those who hate it are just a vocal minority overall. It seems to be working for the majority so far, and that includes some long time fans.

At least some try to reason with chaarcters story instead of forcing their personal preferences

You force your personal preference all the time.

[spirit2011]

She’s talking to him about her love for him. If Cyclops didn’t reciprocate it, then he would’ve said something.

I thought Emma was pathetic saying that, dude not into you. he didn't said nothig because Shaw decideed to take the problem. But nothing on panel suggest reciprocating.

Oh great. So you’re putting your own personal interpretation of a scene explained in detail by the writer of the story and expecting us to accept what you’re saying?

The issue doesn't exist on a vacuum, there is stories before it. And the story he told doesn't stan up for what he told on a interrview. Again interviews aren't part of the canon

[spirit2011]

Doesn't seem like either of those things are actually true.

It was on the stories I read. Maybe you weren't reading the stories

Relying only on those readers is not wise. They NEED to keep trying to obtain new readers. Being unable to hooks kids to jump onto ongoing events and alienating them is killing the industry. Or is at least hurting the big two, other publishers don't have that specific problem.

And this isn't even a full blown controversial reboot like the New 52 was. This is just a relaunch, and I think those who hate it are just a vocal minority overall. It seems to be working for the majority so far, and that includes some long time fans.

Relying on these readers is te only way to keep sales going. Comic book shops are pretty niche, so sales rely on older costumers instead of new ones.
There is plenty of ways to keep these two satisfied without crapping on continuity.

new 52 everyone also said the ones that hate it are minority. Then came some years and the reality settled down. I don't think DOXPOX will be that severe, but sales aren't that good already. Only Hickman x-men is out of the curve

You force your personal preference all the time.

No, at all. That is how chaarcters have been presented for decades.

[Tycon]

I thought Emma was pathetic saying that, dude not into you. he didn't said nothig because Shaw decideed to take the problem. But nothing on panel suggest reciprocating.

I’m pretty sure the line of plausibility falls on you. The scene isn’t set up to make Emma ‘desperate’, again, that’s a reading you have on the scene because you don’t like her.

The issue doesn't exist on a vacuum, there is stories before it. And the story he told doesn't stan up for what he told on a interrview. Again interviews aren't part of the canon

And what are these stories? There is nothing on-panel that showed Jean stopped having feelings for Wolverine not that Cyclops stopped having feelings for Emma. Once again, writer explaining a scene he wrote >>>>>>>>>> anti-emma/scott reader interpreting emma/scott scene

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

To be fair, what Rosenberg describes is not what's in the issue.

What we saw was essentially Scott and Jean unabashedly getting back together and here in the present continuity all we know is that Jean and Scott are unfortunately indeed back together and Emma is using doting language without any obvious reciprocation, though he is still likely hitting that as well.

[SiegePerilous02]

It was on the stories I read. Maybe you weren't reading the stories

I didn't, but I shouldn't have to in order to judge HoX/PoX on its own merits on a craft level and needing only the broader knowledge of the characters involved. And I have at least read Morrison, and Jean has complicated feelings for Logan there at least, and that's well after her wedding.

And some other posters HAVE read these and seem to disagree with you, so...

Relying on these readers is te only way to keep sales going. Comic book shops are pretty niche, so sales rely on older costumers instead of new ones.
There is plenty of ways to keep these two satisfied without crapping on continuity.

It doesn't seem like continuity is being crapped on, just that knowing the ins and outs of every story since the last seismic shift isn't important for the enjoyment of Hox/PoX. Or it's not lining up with what YOU think continuity should be.

No, at all. That is how chaarcters have been presented for decades.

According to you. That's your subjective view point, not an objective one. And you're bringing your own bias to it, which all comic fans do on certain subjects.

[spirit2011]

To be fair, what Rosenberg describes is not what's in the issue.

What we saw was essentially Scott and Jean unabashedly getting back together and here in the present continuity all we know is that Jean and Scott are unfortunately indeed back together and Emma is using doting language without any obvious reciprocation, though he is still likely hitting that as well.

I was surprised when I read the interview, because I couldn't see what he wanted to do on page. I guess he was trying to save himself from critics that he already put Jean and Scott already together.
I buy that Jean and Scott still had some problems to workk out as relationships problems never end. But them being open to Logan and Emma wasn't in these two chaarcters story of the last decade.

And none of us two ship jean and Scott together

[Tycon]

To be fair, what Rosenberg describes is not what's in the issue.

What we saw was essentially Scott and Jean unabashedly getting back together and here in the present continuity all we know is that Jean and Scott are unfortunately indeed back together and Emma is using doting language without any obvious reciprocation, though he is still likely hitting that as well.

It was a dialogue-less two pager. I thought it was initially Rosenberg putting the nail in the coffin for Scemma, but then again this is the same writer who thought writing a trans panic murder was revolutionary and killing Multiple Man at the end of a mini about his resurrection would’ve been worth selling to customers. He’s a weird writer who doesn’t seem to be able to convey his messages that well. The difference here is that I’m more inclined to believe his intention over someone intentionally viewing everything in the worst possible way.

[SiegePerilous02]

It was a dialogue-less two pager. I thought it was initially Rosenberg putting the nail in the coffin for Scemma, but then again this is the same writer who thought writing a trans panic murder was revolutionary and killing Multiple Man at the end of a mini about his resurrection would’ve been worth selling to customers. He’s a weird writer who doesn’t seem to be able to convey his messages that well. The difference here is that I’m more inclined to believe his intention over someone intentionally viewing everything in the worst possible way.

Yikes.
Why are we concerned with the continuity of these stories not mattering that much again...?