Zatanna Zatara: Appreciation 2020

[Tzigone]

I think it makes total sense that she'd wear a flashy and more feminine take on a normal magicians outfit. She's styling herself off after her father after all while still projecting herself as a fancy female magician. She's not dressing to be objectified but to come off as flashy and sexy. I think there's plenty of whimsy in her costume.

I see no whimsy. What the heck even is whimsy in clothing? I googled it, and saw more flowy-things, which is about the only thing I could think of myself.

While I don't loathe the fishnets, I think they work better as a stage costume than a hero costume, and I think she is often indisputably, heavily sexualized and objectified. So very many arched back/butt-and-breasts-stuck-out panels. For almost all the women really (seriously, compare Zatanna's original costume - certainly less bottom coverage, but more importantly than that, the entire way she's drawn is simply far more sexual/cheesecake in modern times). And many of them, even in casual or battle situations, heavily drawn to be viewed primary as objects of sexual attraction. Zatanna definitely hits that more heavily than many. Huge breasts in certain eras/artists. And I much prefer a ruffled or pleated shirt - so she doesn't have a painted on look. Oh the fade-off-clothes-to-nightgown in issue 2 - that's pretty "male gaze" oriented to me. As were some of the fighting bits. Hardly the only character to go through such (oh, the intended-to-be-sexy-looking torture bits in the 1980s NTT), but still frustrating. The back of Zatanna's outfit also shrinks on occasion to show us more butt at times during the the Dini times, too.

While the women so frequently having skimpier outfits (and Zatana's becomes more and less skimpy at times) and thigh-high boots is annoying to me, it isn't nearly as annoying at they way they are drawn. While people talk about big muscles on men in comparison, at least they have a purpose in a physically-fighting hero in a way women's extreme figures don't (and, honestly, I think they're meant to appeal to men more than women, too - it's the demographic most comics have). More than that, though, it's the poses and movements. Butt-and-boob shots (whether when casually standing around or in battle), stances that make no sense, "posing" for the "camera" angles, etc. It certainly seems to me that special effort is taken in to draw women in a way that draws they minds to sexual attractiveness much moreso than in done with male characters. So art style is as important as actual costume. Caveat: though not usually a problem with Zatanna (she usually has a shirt), I do wish women would not be drawn in outfits that would not keep their breasts inside during a battle (where people get thrown around, etc.).

[Dylan Davison]

Her current look is not bad. I just wish she didn't have the braid and bangs hairstyle. Also the big blue coat just covers her up a lot.

Attachment 95142

Attachment 95143

I like the braid, personally, it adds something different for her hair, the long hair would for sure get in the way in a fight, so I could see her braiding it up.

I dunno, I’ve never heard any complaints from women about the fishnets. I mean you could easily just swipe the fishnets out for pants though, I’d be fine with that:

Really want to see Gail Simone write a Zatanna mini or ongoing, I think she’d be perfect. She can do whimsical and light or serious and dark, both are storytelling areas Zatanna has operated in.

I would love to see Gail write some Zatanna, I love Gail!

There's plenty of ways around the over sexualized costume. The Ivan Reis redesign was great, so was the classic purple suit.

Zee is a great character on her own, without the male gaze component- which is exhausting.

I didn't hate the purple costume, but it would look really out of place in modern times. JLD Vol. 1's costume (with the cape) was probably the closest to that, that we could get, without it looking really dated.

[Frontier]

I see no whimsy. What the heck even is whimsy in clothing? I googled it, and saw more flowy-things, which is about the only thing I could think of myself.

While I don't loathe the fishnets, I think they work better as a stage costume than a hero costume, and I think she is often indisputably, heavily sexualized and objectified. So very many arched back/butt-and-breasts-stuck-out panels. For almost all the women really (seriously, compare Zatanna's original costume - certainly less bottom coverage, but more importantly than that, the entire way she's drawn is simply far more sexual/cheesecake in modern times). And many of them, even in casual or battle situations, heavily drawn to be viewed primary as objects of sexual attraction. Zatanna definitely hits that more heavily than many. Huge breasts in certain eras/artists. And I much prefer a ruffled or pleated shirt - so she doesn't have a painted on look. Oh the fade-off-clothes-to-nightgown in issue 2 - that's pretty "male gaze" oriented to me. As were some of the fighting bits. Hardly the only character to go through such (oh, the intended-to-be-sexy-looking torture bits in the 1980s NTT), but still frustrating. The back of Zatanna's outfit also shrinks on occasion to show us more butt at times during the the Dini times, too.

While the women so frequently having skimpier outfits (and Zatana's becomes more and less skimpy at times) and thigh-high boots is annoying to me, it isn't nearly as annoying at they way they are drawn. While people talk about big muscles on men in comparison, at least they have a purpose in a physically-fighting hero in a way women's extreme figures don't (and, honestly, I think they're meant to appeal to men more than women, too - it's the demographic most comics have). More than that, though, it's the poses and movements. Butt-and-boob shots (whether when casually standing around or in battle), stances that make no sense, "posing" for the "camera" angles, etc. It certainly seems to me that special effort is taken in to draw women in a way that draws they minds to sexual attractiveness much moreso than in done with male characters. So art style is as important as actual costume. Caveat: though not usually a problem with Zatanna (she usually has a shirt), I do wish women would not be drawn in outfits that would not keep their breasts inside during a battle (where people get thrown around, etc.).

"Whimsy" in the sense of being fun (in my opinion).

The whole point of her costume is that it's a stage outfit that doubly serves as a Superhero costume. I'm not saying she's not sexualized, and that is a major issue with female Superheroes in general, just that I think it fits the character. I've seen tasteful depictions of Zee in her classic look as much as I have for any other Superheroine in their iconic costumes.

[John Venus]

I don't mind the fishnets outfit but I agree it should be saved for stage performances only. It makes more sense that she switches from a stage outfit to a battle outfit to a casual outfit. I can see her having multiple versions of the stage outfit; fishnets, pants, thigh highs, etc and multiple versions of battle and casual outfits too.

As a fan of Dini's run, I didn't find her depiction there to be especially sexualized. Mind you, my bar for 'overly sexualized' is set at stuff like Bendis/Frank Cho's Mighty Avengers which took every opportunity to show it's female characters mighty backside, Ed Benes art which often ruined dramatic character moments by Gail or McDuffie by insisting on having female characters pointing their arse at the camera and of course books like Gen13 and Danger Girl which are meant to cheesecake fests. When the book came out, there was some praise for the artist by female fans for not going too over board but as the series progressed some criticisms did pop up, mainly of Zee getting into bondage situations. However, I admit that my bar may not be the same as everyone else's and that we all have different tastes and preferences.

Earlier in the thread, there was a question about which Zatanna story arc you preferred. Well for me, the best Zatanna would be a synthesis of her characterization in Dini's work but also modernization of her story arcs in the satellite era JLA. IMO, modern Zatanna stories have gotten too fixated on Zatanna or her father doing mind wipes, Zatanna searching for her father, some kind of love interest she obsesses over whether it's John Constantine, Dick Grayson or Bruce Wayne, Zatanna's father being dead and her feelings about it, rinse and repeat.

In the 70's, Gerry Conway threw in some interesting ideas for Zatanna; her mother was named Sindella, she came from the Hidden City which was a city of Homo Magi secluded away somewhere in Turkey, if humans inter marry too much with the Homo Magi then the latter's magical gene would disappear in a few generations which was a fascinating idea, Sindella possessed a gem called the 'Medula Gem' and TPTB of the Hidden City wanted it so they can use her a living power source for their city and thus they faked her death. Sindella eventually sacrifices her life to save her daughter. The story ran from JLA #161-166. However, the execution of this story was lacking but there is interesting stuff that a smart writer could mine.

Also her depiction, from 166 onwards was refreshing; she is powerful, useful and often the key to saving the day. Too many times in modern days, she gets benched too quickly so other characters can shine or she is a glorified red shirt used to show how powerful some magical threat so somebody else can shine. Even when she gets knocked out it's not any more or less than the other League members. In the issue where she is powered down to just using her elements, it's mentioned that she was the second most powerful member after Superman prior to losing her powers but even after that she is still useful as she is the one who figures out the cause behind all the tarot based attacks the League were facing in prior issues. Eventually she gets her full power back but has to fight for it first.

There was also the reason behind her getting her Perez re design (the one with the lobster headdress), it happened in 1980, a few years before Nightwing debuted. The reasoning was that her stage outfit was evocative of her fathers and her black/red costume was evocative of her mothers, so the loose sleeved red headdress costume was meant to represent her coming into her own. The change happened after a talk with Barry. She teamed up with Barry and Hal a lot during that period. There was also some sexual tension between her Barry while the latter was going through a mid life crisis following Iris death but nothing really came of that relationship and they remained friends up until Barry's death. Zatanna debuted not too long after Barry, Hal and Ray Palmer debuted and to my mind she is absolutely in that generation of heroes but isn't considered so because she didn't have an ongoing.

What I'm saying here is that there is an arc here that could be picked up and modernized. Start her off as magician but not really a superhero looking for her missing father and she teams up with a couple of heroes to do so, she finds her father and becomes a full fledged League member and begins learning her ropes while still providing key information on how to deal with magical threats, then she discovers her mother is still alive and in trouble so she starts looking for her alongside her father. However, she starts going through a rough patch, her mother dies tragically, her father dies, she begins losing her powers but later on through bitter hard work she regains them back. Then she begins mentoring Zachary along with helping the JLA on magical threats while also doing Vegas shows alongside the usual solo superheroing. Her characterization should be closer to Dini's, the depiction of magic closer to Morrison's Seven Soldiers and the plot points could be modernized like Mark Waid on JLA: Year One.

Also, I would like to see the character develop a strong bond with another heroine. We know she is tight with Black Canary and Wonder Woman but I would like to see her with another magic based heroine? Maybe Gypsy (although she is going to need a name change)? I also think there is interesting potential in her teaming up with someone like Raven as well.

[Dylan Davison]

Also, I would like to see the character develop a strong bond with another heroine. We know she is tight with Black Canary and Wonder Woman but I would like to see her with another magic based heroine? Maybe Gypsy (although she is going to need a name change)? I also think there is interesting potential in her teaming up with someone like Raven as well.

I would love to see some new female members added with Z and WW to the team. Raven would be cool, or Poison Ivy, or maybe someone like Talia even. Enchantress would also be cool too.

[kjn]

Also, I would like to see the character develop a strong bond with another heroine. We know she is tight with Black Canary and Wonder Woman but I would like to see her with another magic based heroine? Maybe Gypsy (although she is going to need a name change)? I also think there is interesting potential in her teaming up with someone like Raven as well.

We had a discussion about the DC best buddies in the Justice League a while back, and one of the things that jumped at us was how poorly developed the friendships and relations were between DC's female characters. It's a little better when one leave the Justice League, but there is still a lot to be done.

My impression of Zatanna is that she is a bit of a loner and mistrustful. Not because of her personality, but rather because of her experiences.

Two candidates I think of Nightshade and Black Orchid. Especially Black Orchid would be interesting since it'd add another connection with Swamp Thing (assuming we are going with Susan Linden as Black Orchid) and provide a tie with Poison Ivy.

[Frontier]

I don't mind the fishnets outfit but I agree it should be saved for stage performances only. It makes more sense that she switches from a stage outfit to a battle outfit to a casual outfit. I can see her having multiple versions of the stage outfit; fishnets, pants, thigh highs, etc and multiple versions of battle and casual outfits too.

I can agree to the idea that she should go through multiple outfits with fishnet themes, that make more sense to me than when they had to work that in for Black Canary, but I think it fits her character that she would wear a stage performance outfit as a hero because she is inherently a performer.

[Marik Swift]

If this movie does end up getting made, I personally real hope they make it a horror.

Maybe it's just me, but to me magic should generally be treated as some thing scary. Not always, but more times than not. That to me is part of the problem with how most writers handle Zatanna. She kind of just freely use one of the most convenient & powerful means of magic with barely any repercussions. We always hear characters talk about how magic has consequences from every magic user (Zee included), but we rarely see it except when it's plot convenient.

I would dial back Zatanna's magic. Have it established that she can maybe use about 5 backward spells per day. After that, she needs to either use traditional magic (rituals and stuff) or invoke other entities (which would have a cost). Have her doing a lot more traditional magic in general.

Overall, take more inspiration from the series Penny Dreadful or Salem, and less inspiration from Harry Potter or Charmed or whatever. Stay away from anything to do with her father. I love Zatara, but I'm tired of every Zatanna story being related to her dad somehow. Stay away from love interest if possible — Steve Trevor easily outshadowed Wonder Woman on her own movie, and Diana being some lovesick puppy over a man entirely missed the point of her character, so yea, keep that to a minimum. If you must cast a Constantine, make it clear he's 50+ also — Constantine being older than her is honestly the most interesting part of their relationship to me.

I would also say make it an R rated movie, cause there should be a lot of graphic scenes with the horror setting (no nudity though, or if it does, none involving Zatanna as she needs to be taken seriously). R rated movies don't sell as well though, so they should probably only go for that rating if they are confident it can sell like Joker did.

Her fishnets would probably get by with less scrutiny on an R rating also. Albeit while I do love her fishnets, I think she has had a nice enough repertoire of great costumes that only using one wouldn't do her justice, so yea, I think they should have her switching them as needed.

Go for a noir/dark palette. Gotham style. Actually, the more I write this I realize this might have been the time of movie Zack Snyder might have excelled at if given a good script—he's not a bad director, just really bad writer.

So yea, write it sort of like Penny Dreadful or the Haunting of Hill House (the single cam work in that was amazing).

And most imoorranrlt. Pay Katie McGrath $50 million if necessary to get her to play the part. Give her blood. Give her your souls. I don't care what needs to be done. Do it.

[DrNewGod]

If this movie does end up getting made, I personally real hope they make it a horror.

Maybe it's just me, but to me magic should generally be treated as some thing scary. Not always, but more times than not. That to me is part of the problem with how most writers handle Zatanna. She kind of just freely use one of the most convenient & powerful means of magic with barely any repercussions. We always hear characters talk about how magic has consequences from every magic user (Zee included), but we rarely see it except when it's plot convenient.

I would dial back Zatanna's magic. Have it established that she can maybe use about 5 backward spells per day. After that, she needs to either use traditional magic (rituals and stuff) or invoke other entities (which would have a cost). Have her doing a lot more traditional magic in general.

Overall, take more inspiration from the series Penny Dreadful or Salem, and less inspiration from Harry Potter or Charmed or whatever. Stay away from anything to do with her father. I love Zatara, but I'm tired of every Zatanna story being related to her dad somehow. Stay away from love interest if possible — Steve Trevor easily outshadowed Wonder Woman on her own movie, and Diana being some lovesick puppy over a man entirely missed the point of her character, so yea, keep that to a minimum. If you must cast a Constantine, make it clear he's 50+ also — Constantine being older than her is honestly the most interesting part of their relationship to me.

I would also say make it an R rated movie, cause there should be a lot of graphic scenes with the horror setting (no nudity though, or if it does, none involving Zatanna as she needs to be taken seriously). R rated movies don't sell as well though, so they should probably only go for that rating if they are confident it can sell like Joker did.

Her fishnets would probably get by with less scrutiny on an R rating also. Albeit while I do love her fishnets, I think she has had a nice enough repertoire of great costumes that only using one wouldn't do her justice, so yea, I think they should have her switching them as needed.

Go for a noir/dark palette. Gotham style. Actually, the more I write this I realize this might have been the time of movie Zack Snyder might have excelled at if given a good script—he's not a bad director, just really bad writer.

So yea, write it sort of like Penny Dreadful or the Haunting of Hill House (the single cam work in that was amazing).

And most imoorranrlt. Pay Katie McGrath $50 million if necessary to get her to play the part. Give her blood. Give her your souls. I don't care what needs to be done. Do it.

Yeah, our preferences would be about 180° off. I get what you're saying, and it would be great for Baron Winters, Constantine, Dr. (or Tracy) Thirteen, or The Phantom Stranger. It doesn't fit what I think of as the most common picture of Z.

IMO, Frontier is right when he says there should be a certain element of whimsy to Zatanna. This is a lady making a living as a stage magician, dressed in a cheesecake version her dad's old-school stage costume, who also fights crime and monsters by casting spells in backwards English. Trying to sell her fishnets when you're using copious amounts of guts to sell a serious terrifying premise is, most likely, a disconnect that won't work in anything but an absurdist comedy, or one of those films that turned out to be beloved because it's so utterly aweful.

[Frontier]

Yeah, our preferences would be about 180° off. I get what you're saying, and it would be great for Baron Winters, Constantine, Dr. (or Tracy) Thirteen, or The Phantom Stranger. It doesn't fit what I think of as the most common picture of Z.

IMO, Frontier is right when he says there should be a certain element of whimsy to Zatanna. This is a lady making a living as a stage magician, dressed in a cheesecake version her dad's old-school stage costume, who also fights crime and monsters by casting spells in backwards English. Trying to sell her fishnets when you're using copious amounts of guts to sell a serious terrifying premise is, most likely, a disconnect that won't work in anything but an absurdist comedy, or one of those films that turned out to be beloved because it's so utterly aweful.

Yeah, if there are any Supernatural characters that warrant being associated more with horror, it's Constantine or even Raven over Zatanna in my opinion.

[Marik Swift]

Yeah, our preferences would be about 180° off. I get what you're saying, and it would be great for Baron Winters, Constantine, Dr. (or Tracy) Thirteen, or The Phantom Stranger. It doesn't fit what I think of as the most common picture of Z.

IMO, Frontier is right when he says there should be a certain element of whimsy to Zatanna. This is a lady making a living as a stage magician, dressed in a cheesecake version her dad's old-school stage costume, who also fights crime and monsters by casting spells in backwards English. Trying to sell her fishnets when you're using copious amounts of guts to sell a serious terrifying premise is, most likely, a disconnect that won't work in anything but an absurdist comedy, or one of those films that turned out to be beloved because it's so utterly aweful.

Yes, but I feel like there is a juxtaposition to be told with it. Zatanna loves being a stage magician because she gets to show people the "fun" side of magic, but the terrifying parts of it she keeps to herself.

It possibly being a horror doesn't eliminate the whimsical side of things. Imagine the movie starting of with her exploring the whimsical side of things, and then in the second arc things take a dark turn. She's still the whimsical magician by day, but she deals with the darkness that comes magic at night.

I mean, you are right that other characters maybe fit the bill for a horror a bit more, but I feel like Zatanna bring whimsical herself could add to things, so that it isn't outright just some horror movie, but a mixture.

I don't know, just seemed like a neat idea. I mean, the Harry Potter franchise continue to be a big seller, so maybe there still is a market there. But Harry Potter/Fantastical Beasts has brand recognition. I feel like taking a Zatanna movie into the horror genre would fill a better demand for a genre that has been lacking since IT.

[Frontier]

Yes, but I feel like there is a juxtaposition to be told with it. Zatanna loves being a stage magician because she gets to show people the "fun" side of magic, but the terrifying parts of it she keeps to herself.

It possibly being a horror doesn't eliminate the whimsical side of things. Imagine the movie starting of with her exploring the whimsical side of things, and then in the second arc things take a dark turn. She's still the whimsical magician by day, but she deals with the darkness that comes magic at night.

I mean, you are right that other characters maybe fit the bill for a horror a bit more, but I feel like Zatanna bring whimsical herself could add to things, so that it isn't outright just some horror movie, but a mixture.

I don't know, just seemed like a neat idea. I mean, the Harry Potter franchise continue to be a big seller, so maybe there still is a market there. But Harry Potter/Fantastical Beasts has brand recognition. I feel like taking a Zatanna movie into the horror genre would fill a better demand for a genre that has been lacking since IT.

I feel like we get enough of that when she's with the JLD. I don't think it should be seen as much in terms of her solo career as a Superhero.

[The no face guy]

I'm not quite sure what all the fuss about fish net stocking is with superheroines lately. It use to be a staple for goth girls, which is why I love this art.

I love the whole Harry Potter gothic feel with the gargoyles in the back, (though yes, a little too pin up)

Apparently the cover switched to a scary look of Zatanna when you flipped it a certain way.

[Gaius]

I don't mind the fishnets outfit but I agree it should be saved for stage performances only. It makes more sense that she switches from a stage outfit to a battle outfit to a casual outfit. I can see her having multiple versions of the stage outfit; fishnets, pants, thigh highs, etc and multiple versions of battle and casual outfits too.

As a fan of Dini's run, I didn't find her depiction there to be especially sexualized. Mind you, my bar for 'overly sexualized' is set at stuff like Bendis/Frank Cho's Mighty Avengers which took every opportunity to show it's female characters mighty backside, Ed Benes art which often ruined dramatic character moments by Gail or McDuffie by insisting on having female characters pointing their arse at the camera and of course books like Gen13 and Danger Girl which are meant to cheesecake fests. When the book came out, there was some praise for the artist by female fans for not going too over board but as the series progressed some criticisms did pop up, mainly of Zee getting into bondage situations. However, I admit that my bar may not be the same as everyone else's and that we all have different tastes and preferences.

Earlier in the thread, there was a question about which Zatanna story arc you preferred. Well for me, the best Zatanna would be a synthesis of her characterization in Dini's work but also modernization of her story arcs in the satellite era JLA. IMO, modern Zatanna stories have gotten too fixated on Zatanna or her father doing mind wipes, Zatanna searching for her father, some kind of love interest she obsesses over whether it's John Constantine, Dick Grayson or Bruce Wayne, Zatanna's father being dead and her feelings about it, rinse and repeat.

In the 70's, Gerry Conway threw in some interesting ideas for Zatanna; her mother was named Sindella, she came from the Hidden City which was a city of Homo Magi secluded away somewhere in Turkey, if humans inter marry too much with the Homo Magi then the latter's magical gene would disappear in a few generations which was a fascinating idea, Sindella possessed a gem called the 'Medula Gem' and TPTB of the Hidden City wanted it so they can use her a living power source for their city and thus they faked her death. Sindella eventually sacrifices her life to save her daughter. The story ran from JLA #161-166. However, the execution of this story was lacking but there is interesting stuff that a smart writer could mine.

Also her depiction, from 166 onwards was refreshing; she is powerful, useful and often the key to saving the day. Too many times in modern days, she gets benched too quickly so other characters can shine or she is a glorified red shirt used to show how powerful some magical threat so somebody else can shine. Even when she gets knocked out it's not any more or less than the other League members. In the issue where she is powered down to just using her elements, it's mentioned that she was the second most powerful member after Superman prior to losing her powers but even after that she is still useful as she is the one who figures out the cause behind all the tarot based attacks the League were facing in prior issues. Eventually she gets her full power back but has to fight for it first.

There was also the reason behind her getting her Perez re design (the one with the lobster headdress), it happened in 1980, a few years before Nightwing debuted. The reasoning was that her stage outfit was evocative of her fathers and her black/red costume was evocative of her mothers, so the loose sleeved red headdress costume was meant to represent her coming into her own. The change happened after a talk with Barry. She teamed up with Barry and Hal a lot during that period. There was also some sexual tension between her Barry while the latter was going through a mid life crisis following Iris death but nothing really came of that relationship and they remained friends up until Barry's death. Zatanna debuted not too long after Barry, Hal and Ray Palmer debuted and to my mind she is absolutely in that generation of heroes but isn't considered so because she didn't have an ongoing.

What I'm saying here is that there is an arc here that could be picked up and modernized. Start her off as magician but not really a superhero looking for her missing father and she teams up with a couple of heroes to do so, she finds her father and becomes a full fledged League member and begins learning her ropes while still providing key information on how to deal with magical threats, then she discovers her mother is still alive and in trouble so she starts looking for her alongside her father. However, she starts going through a rough patch, her mother dies tragically, her father dies, she begins losing her powers but later on through bitter hard work she regains them back. Then she begins mentoring Zachary along with helping the JLA on magical threats while also doing Vegas shows alongside the usual solo superheroing. Her characterization should be closer to Dini's, the depiction of magic closer to Morrison's Seven Soldiers and the plot points could be modernized like Mark Waid on JLA: Year One.

Also, I would like to see the character develop a strong bond with another heroine. We know she is tight with Black Canary and Wonder Woman but I would like to see her with another magic based heroine? Maybe Gypsy (although she is going to need a name change)? I also think there is interesting potential in her teaming up with someone like Raven as well.

Agree with the emboldened in regards to Zatanna's father. A story beat I've gotten tired with Zatanna in the years has been plot lines surrounding Zatara being gone.

[Dylan Davison]

I would be up for a good mix of Superhero and horror. Like Doctor Strange (movie) and, hmmm, Candyman. Like a story of this stage magican who's father goes missing so she goes out to find him, only to find out that magic is real and that an Urban Legend (like make Brother Night an Urban Legend and a leader of magic underground crime or even Upside Downman). And maybe she learns that her father was a hero who fought this underground crime. Mix in some scary moments, Zee in isolation. I think it could work. Idk, maybe it's dumb, just off the top of my head thinking haha.

Of course, I would be okay if it wasn't about her father. But also, origin stories, you know? Haha