New Mutants Appreciation 2020

[houndsofluv]

And yeah, that third generation, Rictor, Skids, Rusty and Boom-Boom, kinda rough. Although Rictor and Boom-Boom have done better than Rusty and Skids. Rusty's one of the few dead mutants I haven't seen much clamoring for to be resurrected, and it's not even that he's particularly hated, just, eh.

(He'd have to compete for 'fire-guy' attention with at least two superfluous Pyro's running around, Match, Neal Sharra, two or three Yashida siblings...)

rusty's got a lot stacked against him lol. So many others with the same powerset, generic personality, no distinctive costume and to top it off he's been dead for 30 yrs .. I think character-wise skids is more interesting than she gets credit for but she also suffers from a pretty generic design.

I wish a writer could give Karma cooler moments and develop her powers more.
Even in the teambooks she's part of, it seems like she doesn't get the same treatment as some of her teammates.

Now that Betsy is no longer asian because she's in her original body, writers could push her more.

i don't even know if Betsy still using telepathy, she seems more like a classic hero now.

big agree on karma needing + deserving a push but I dont really think Betsy's race had anything to do with her not being used - if the interest had been there behind the scenes they would've found a way . Kwannon's still here anyways and as recently was the last issue Betsy used her TP for a more "ranged" attack and not just to construct her sword + shield

[Sutekh]

rusty's got a lot stacked against him lol. So many others with the same powerset, generic personality, no distinctive costume and to top it off he's been dead for 30 yrs .. I think character-wise skids is more interesting than she gets credit for but she also suffers from a pretty generic design.

Skids might have been a neat original-ish idea, when she debuted, but she was, IMO, mishandled, and since then we've had Cecelia Reyes, Unuscione and Hisako 'Armor' as our young mutant force-field ladies, all of whom are more distinctive and dynamic personalities, so her milkshake is well and truly drank up.

[ericng]

Yeah, Karma has really gotten the short end of the stick, of the O5 New Mutants.

It's kind of amazing how well Magik has done, for a second-generation New Mutant. She's flat out surpassed the entire first generation.

And yeah, that third generation, Rictor, Skids, Rusty and Boom-Boom, kinda rough. Although Rictor and Boom-Boom have done better than Rusty and Skids.

Why do you call them second generation?

Magik, Doug and Magma are all first generation and not second generation. Magik even appeared in issue #1 as a child (I think).

It's just that Chris Claremont needed more issues to introduce the other four members, and then join the team later. They can't all be introduced in issue #1 as in X-Men #1 where their origins were told much later as background stories in 50 ish.

Magma's origin story was told in Nova Roma story NM#8-#12.



Magik's origin story was told in Magik #1-4 limited series and again in NM #14. Magik's origin has to be told partially in a separate series bcos Chris Claremont needed to write Doug's origin at about the same time.




Doug's origin story was told in Hellfire club/Hellions/Kitty story in NM #13, #15-#17. Hellions were introduced in the same storyline as Doug.




I won't go into Warlock cos I'm not really interested.

The second generation is Rictor, Skids, Rusty and Boom-Boom who were introduced by different writers other than Chris Claremont. They were also introduced much later than the first gen.

[Sutekh]

Why do you call them second generation?

A poor choice of terms on my part, since it also implies that Ilyanna, Doug, Warlock and Amara are descended from Sam, Dani, 'Berto, Shan and Rahne.

Perhaps, 'second wave?' (Since they weren't part of the initial launch, or 'first wave?') I just wanted a way to differentiate between the five starting new Mutants, the four who joined within the first year or two, and Rictor, Skids, Rusty and Boom-Boom, who came even later.

(And Bird-Brain, whom I totally forgot to include in any of those groups, 'cause screw that guy.)

[Alphaxman]

I actually liked the X-Terminators at the time, and was disappointed that Dani, Rusty, Skids, and Wizkid were quickly dispatched after Inferno. Rictor was fine, but Boom Boom grated on my nerves. But she did have an unique voice on the team. It would have be nice to see how she and Dani would have clashed. Or see Bobby and Rusty clash as two alpha males. As for Wizkid, I can see why they got rid of him. Only a great and inventive artist could handle his powers, and Liefeld wasn't it. I could have seen Cable wanting him on the team, because he could have seen how powerful and resourceful he could have been: a genus level kid who he could have molded as easily as Takeshi could have molded metal and plastic; he would have been priceless. Plus it would have been nice to see an Asian male stay on a team more than a few issues.

As for Rusty and Skids, visually, it would have been better if Rusty's fire was a different color like blue or green, like he could have secreted a flammable liquid that ignited in open air that would have a blueish or greenish color. And that Skids shouldn't have been blonde (maybe a black girl), making her a weaker version of Invisible Woman. Maybe they could have developed her powers where she could have been sort of a speedster, using her frictionless field to slide along the surface at super speed.

[Paleo_Rage]

I actually liked the X-Terminators at the time, and was disappointed that Dani, Rusty, Skids, and Wizkid were quickly dispatched after Inferno. Rictor was fine, but Boom Boom grated on my nerves. But she did have an unique voice on the team. It would have be nice to see how she and Dani would have clashed. Or see Bobby and Rusty clash as two alpha males. As for Wizkid, I can see why they got rid of him. Only a great and inventive artist could handle his powers, and Liefeld wasn't it. I could have seen Cable wanting him on the team, because he could have seen how powerful and resourceful he could have been: a genus level kid who he could have molded as easily as Takeshi could have molded metal and plastic; he would have been priceless. Plus it would have been nice to see an Asian male stay on a team more than a few issues.

As for Rusty and Skids, visually, it would have been better if Rusty's fire was a different color like blue or green, like he could have secreted a flammable liquid that ignited in open air that would have a blueish or greenish color. And that Skids shouldn't have been blonde (maybe a black girl), making her a weaker version of Invisible Woman. Maybe they could have developed her powers where she could have been sort of a speedster, using her frictionless field to slide along the surface at super speed.

Yep it was a damn crying shame that generation of mutants had no Black girls. I def could see a speedester due to frictionless force field being a good concept as marvel has no black female speedsters. Could have used Jackie Joyner kersy as a model for her. Hell the only black female mutant that that gen in the x books is tempo.

[Sutekh]

As for Wizkid, I can see why they got rid of him. Only a great and inventive artist could handle his powers, and Liefeld wasn't it. I could have seen Cable wanting him on the team, because he could have seen how powerful and resourceful he could have been: a genus level kid who he could have molded as easily as Takeshi could have molded metal and plastic; he would have been priceless. Plus it would have been nice to see an Asian male stay on a team more than a few issues.

He's got insane potential. Since he can reshape metal and stuff into powered machinery with just his mind, he could easily be out of that fancy wheelchair and walking around in an exoskeletal framework, and be the 'Iron Man' of the mutant faction. Thanks to his experiences with the 'spellchecker' in Inferno, he could even be a magical dabbler, and be more like Dr. Doom, a mystically-trained tech-armored character! It's kind of insane how much potential he's got, and, pfft. Nothing.

And that Skids shouldn't have been blonde (maybe a black girl), making her a weaker version of Invisible Woman. Maybe they could have developed her powers where she could have been sort of a speedster, using her frictionless field to slide along the surface at super speed.

Yeah, I wasn't gonna go there, but Cecelia, Carmella and Hisako have diversity over her as well.

Playing up on the frictionless surface of her fields, and learning to apply them differently (sliding a frictionless invisible field all along the ground around her, so that everybody falls over, for instance, or 'bubbling' someone else trapped in a grapple so that they slip free) could help to differentiate her powers from the various other force-field ladies out there, make her more like the Spider-Man villain Slyde, in a way, with the speed-skating and slippery tricks.

Learning how to alter it's appearance, or texture, could also be funky, putting up a field the same color as the background so that she seems to 'turn invisible' (by just blending in to the background) could be one option, or even varying it so precisely as to lay the appearance of a different (larger) person over herself, sort of bargain-basement Mystique. I'd want to avoid too much in that vein tho, since Cecelia Reyes also operates in that same space, reshaping her force fields into offensive weapons and such. (And Hisako has the 'giant force field exoskeleton' covered, and Carmella is able to transmit a psychic attack through her psychokinetic exoskeleton, so Skids doesn't need to tromp on those niches.)

[Alphaxman]

He's got insane potential. Since he can reshape metal and stuff into powered machinery with just his mind, he could easily be out of that fancy wheelchair and walking around in an exoskeletal framework, and be the 'Iron Man' of the mutant faction. Thanks to his experiences with the 'spellchecker' in Inferno, he could even be a magical dabbler, and be more like Dr. Doom, a mystically-trained tech-armored character! It's kind of insane how much potential he's got, and, pfft. Nothing.

You are so right!!! I know Forge got the mystic techno wiz thing going, but Tekeshi could have been great. And like I said, the X-Men really has a shortage on Asian male members and he could have been a mainstay for the team. I could see him now making the blackbird transfer into a giant mecha. Box who?

[Triniking1234]

Whiz Kid suffered the same fate as Box from Alpha Flight did: The writers didn't know what to do with a disabled main character.

[ericng]

A poor choice of terms on my part, since it also implies that Ilyanna, Doug, Warlock and Amara are descended from Sam, Dani, 'Berto, Shan and Rahne.

Perhaps, 'second wave?' (Since they weren't part of the initial launch, or 'first wave?') I just wanted a way to differentiate between the five starting new Mutants, the four who joined within the first year or two, and Rictor, Skids, Rusty and Boom-Boom, who came even later.

They aren't second wave too.

They are part of the first wave that Chris Claremont wrote, it's just that he spread out their origin stories over one year instead of cramping them into one New Mutants graphic novel.

A more appropriate term would be the 'First five New Mutants' because they really are the first five members in the same generation/wave who are all created by Chris Claremont.

Karma was the first New Mutant introduced and her origin story was told separately in Marvel team-up #100. The other four New Mutants were introduced in New Mutants graphic novel at the same time.

[Fokken]

Identifying them in waves is ENTIRELY appropriate, Sutekh. I do the same.

Its just a simple way to identify/differentiate the original members from later additions and in some ways "classes". There is a distinct TONAL shift as well from the original five to when Amara, Illyana and Doug & Warlock joined in my opinion, further emphasizing their evolution/progression.

Just like the O5 are Xavier's FIRST wave of students, and the SECOND wave or next progression included Polaris & Havok, in my mind.

[sunofdarkchild]

I tend to divide them into the 'classic New Mutants' and the 'second generation.' The classic are those who were joined in the first 20 issues or so, so Warlock is the last 'classic New Mutant.

[danielsan52]

Identifying them in waves is ENTIRELY appropriate, Sutekh. I do the same.

Its just a simple way to identify/differentiate the original members from later additions and in some ways "classes". There is a distinct TONAL shift as well from the original five to when Amara, Illyana and Doug & Warlock joined in my opinion, further emphasizing their evolution/progression.

Just like the O5 are Xavier's FIRST wave of students, and the SECOND wave or next progression included Polaris & Havok, in my mind.

That is how i see it. Polaris, Havok, Mimic, Changeling all second....

[Sutekh]

Its just a simple way to identify/differentiate the original members from later additions and in some ways "classes". There is a distinct TONAL shift as well from the original five to when Amara, Illyana and Doug & Warlock joined in my opinion, further emphasizing their evolution/progression.

The biggest change that even I saw, way back then, was that they went from the most diverse team I'd ever seen (three out of five!), to more blue-eyed blonde caucasians than anything else (Sam, Amara, Doug, Ilyanna). That was a bit of a disappointment, to me, especially Amara, who started out in 'redface' appearing as a South American native, and then turned out to be another blonde. Ilyanna being blonde, exactly nothing like either of her brothers, or her parents, was also a typical comics move. (You heard it here first, Ilyanna's a plant! She's not even related to Colossus!)

[Havok83]

Really the only way to divide the NMs is the Claremont years vs the Simonson years. Any characters she added to the roster can be considered second wave