Rogue Appreciation 2020

[anyajenkins]

Mega nerd mode: Technically, Xandra didn’t fix her powers, she worked through them herself, but her control wasn’t ‘complete’. But she basic had control. The beginning of Excalibur acted like she didn’t have control, but got it back again after the flower coma. She still has the wonder man powers (but they act like the old me marvel powers.) end mega nerd mode...

[Thirteen]

Regarding her mutation : she regained control of her powers in Mr & Mrs X, and Xandra Neramani "fixed" her mutation, now allowing her to use her powers without resorting to body contact

Is THAT what was going on during Rogue's appearance in CAPTAIN MARVEL #4? I couldn't tell what the reason her powers were working differently and from across the room. So she's basically Mimic now? Except she depletes her target of their powers rather than just reflects them?

[ChronoRogue]

Is THAT what was going on during Rogue's appearance in CAPTAIN MARVEL #4? I couldn't tell what the reason her powers were working differently and from across the room. So she's basically Mimic now? Except she depletes her target of their powers rather than just reflects them?

Pretty much! I'm actually rather fond of the idea and think it compliments her powers. The fight with Captain Marvel is a perfect example of how it should work. She basically becomes a drain tank, you want to get away from Rogue as far as you can, because even if you are physically equal or stronger than her; she'll slowly sap your strength away. Her touch-based absorption should be much more potent, as shown with her encounter with Apocalypse in Excalibur.

I don't think it's makes her overpowered as its still not an ability she wants to use most of the time, since unlike the touch-based absorption, she has little control who she absorbs and it's since it's an area of effect can easily harm allies if she just turns it on in the middle of battle. She needs to be very careful about where and when she uses the ability, which I think is limit enough. Also KT explicitly tied her control to her feelings of fear, so it's a second weakness.

If she gets spooked, it's sort of a massive liability tbh. Example when it first becomes active.

[seccruz]

Pretty much! I'm actually rather fond of the idea and think it compliments her powers. The fight with Captain Marvel is a perfect example of how it should work. She basically becomes a drain tank, you want to get away from Rogue as far as you can, because even if you are physically equal or stronger than her; she'll slowly sap your strength away. Her touch-based absorption should be much more potent, as shown with her encounter with Apocalypse in Excalibur.

I don't think it's makes her overpowered as its still not an ability she wants to use most of the time, since unlike the touch-based absorption, she has little control who she absorbs and it's since it's an area of effect can easily harm allies if she just turns it on in the middle of battle. She needs to be very careful about where and when she uses the ability, which I think is limit enough. Also KT explicitly tied her control to her feelings of fear, so it's a second weakness.

If she gets spooked, it's sort of a massive liability tbh. Example when it first becomes active.

Stupidest idea ever! Mike Carey did it better and with 0 intervention from other players.

[ChronoRogue]

Stupidest idea ever! Mike Carey did it better and with 0 intervention from other players.

Wait you mean on gaining control? If so, heavily disagree.

Mike Carey's interpretation of Rogue gaining control of her power was completely Xavier and it removed agency from Rogue. In the end nothing was done to explore her issues with her powers. He really wasted the potential story-lines on re-adjusting to living having to be conscious of not being able to touch other people which should have major psychological effects on a person. It's a trauma in itself but.. we got nothing.

I would actually say that was one of my biggest criticisms with his run. I hated how he just hand-waved everything away and just used this as an excuse to develop a physical relationship with Magneto.

KT meanwhile while in no ways perfect did it better since while Rogue did get some help from other people, she at least investigated and found one of the reasons why she was struggling gaining control of her powers. It's heavily implied she was harassed and the trauma caused her to lose control of her powers. Which makes sense, if the Carol persona could use Rogue's powers freely as early as the 80s, it wasn't a physiological limitation; it was something mental preventing Rogue from doing the same.

I still would like to see some further origins reveals possibly linked to her childhood and why the kiss with Cody was so traumatic. I'm not sure if I really want abuse to be the main explanation for her lack of control, as it's a heavy topic and in some ways a trope used too often in comics, but that's one avenue they could use to explain the challenges of her gaining control.

[Thirteen]

Stupidest idea ever! Mike Carey did it better and with 0 intervention from other players.

Im thinking along the same lines, I'm not sure making Rogue's absorbtion ability a distanced attack does any favors for a character that is most famously a brawler and had weaponized kissing her victims.

[TheRealWashout]

Wait you mean on gaining control? If so, heavily disagree.

Mike Carey's interpretation of Rogue gaining control of her power was completely Xavier and it removed agency from Rogue. In the end nothing was done to explore her issues with her powers. He really wasted the potential story-lines on re-adjusting to living having to be conscious of not being able to touch other people which should have major psychological effects on a person. It's a trauma in itself but.. we got nothing.

I would actually say that was one of my biggest criticisms with his run. I hated how he just hand-waved everything away and just used this as an excuse to develop a physical relationship with Magneto.

KT meanwhile while in no ways perfect did it better since while Rogue did get some help from other people, she at least investigated and found one of the reasons why she was struggling gaining control of her powers. It's heavily implied she was harassed and the trauma caused her to lose control of her powers. Which makes sense, if the Carol persona could use Rogue's powers freely as early as the 80s, it wasn't a physiological limitation; it was something mental preventing Rogue from doing the same.

I still would like to see some further origins reveals possibly linked to her childhood and why the kiss with Cody was so traumatic. I'm not sure if I really want abuse to be the main explanation for her lack of control, as it's a heavy topic and in some ways a trope used too often in comics, but that's one avenue they could use to explain the challenges of her gaining control.

I agree that Carey dropped the ball a bit with the after-effects of gaining control, but he absolutely explored the reasons her powers were messed up. Danger and Xavier had to go deep into her mind to clear out the trauma and the psychic residue that was only apparent once all her past absorptions were gone. Thompson basically ignored that entire run. Carey's story felt like a natural progression of her powers whereas Thompson's felt like just another writer messing with her powers for the 50th time.

[ChronoRogue]

I agree that Carey dropped the ball a bit with the after-effects of gaining control, but he absolutely explored the reasons her powers were messed up. Danger and Xavier had to go deep into her mind to clear out the trauma and the psychic residue that was only apparent once all her past absorptions were gone. Thompson basically ignored that entire run. Carey's story felt like a natural progression of her powers whereas Thompson's felt like just another writer messing with her powers for the 50th time.

I didn't really what Carey did as an explanation for why her powers didn't work. All Carey did was explain why Rogue puts up mental walls, to help preserve her identity. He didn't explore any trauma or why her powers were not in her control in the first place.

Again, KTs explanation fits better because it explains why the Carol persona (sans trauma) is able to maintain control. Because it is tied to an emotion or subconscious feeling and the Carol persona didn't have those fears that Rogue has. KTs explanation also gave agency to Rogue in being able to manage her own power, instead of Xavier and Danger doing everything for her. Rogue didn't work for anything with Carey.

I still really dislike how Carey handled this. Rogue gained nothing from breaking down mental barriers. At least with KT she knows what she needs to do now.

As far as KT messing with her powers by making them work differently, Carey set that up himself ("mature form") and CC always messed with her powers anyway (X-treme) so this is nothing new.

[ChronoRogue]

Im thinking along the same lines, I'm not sure making Rogue's absorbtion ability a distanced attack does any favors for a character that is most famously a brawler and had weaponized kissing her victims.

She'd still be a brawler. Her new distance absorption is only 20 ft or 6 m. It's not far enough for Rogue to work as a ranged character. It also seems weaker than her touch, as Carol was able to still fight back. I just see it as another option she could use, rather than it replacing or changing the way she functions on as a character.

[sbo]

She'd still be a brawler. Her new distance absorption is only 20 ft or 6 m. It's not far enough for Rogue to work as a ranged character. It also seems weaker than her touch, as Carol was able to still fight back. I just see it as another option she could use, rather than it replacing or changing the way she functions on as a character.

Has she been shown to use the distance draining power since she used it on Carol?
I wonder have writers decided to forget about it?

[ChronoRogue]

Has she been shown to use the distance draining power since she used it on Carol?
I wonder have writers decided to forget about it?

Has anyone written Rogue outside of Tini? I think she's mostly been stuck in Excalibur, though I think I recall Rogue showing up briefly in Deadpool.

But yea Tini has just had Rogue use her touch-based absorption as far as I recall.

[mikeb]

I didn't really what Carey did as an explanation for why her powers didn't work. All Carey did was explain why Rogue puts up mental walls, to help preserve her identity. He didn't explore any trauma or why her powers were not in her control in the first place.

Again, KTs explanation fits better because it explains why the Carol persona (sans trauma) is able to maintain control. Because it is tied to an emotion or subconscious feeling and the Carol persona didn't have those fears that Rogue has. KTs explanation also gave agency to Rogue in being able to manage her own power, instead of Xavier and Danger doing everything for her. Rogue didn't work for anything with Carey.

I still really dislike how Carey handled this. Rogue gained nothing from breaking down mental barriers. At least with KT she knows what she needs to do now.

As far as KT messing with her powers by making them work differently, Carey set that up himself ("mature form") and CC always messed with her powers anyway (X-treme) so this is nothing new.

The thing I didn't like about what Carey did is there was no period of working through her no longer needing to protect herself from hurting others, no needing to let go of the phychological "comfort zone" in her mind to protect herself. Carey should have had Rogue work through a period of letting go of her fear and need to protect herself because it was no longer needed and yet Rogue was in that "comfort zone" for years.

[rhaenylis]

Has anyone written Rogue outside of Tini? I think she's mostly been stuck in Excalibur, though I think I recall Rogue showing up briefly in Deadpool.

But yea Tini has just had Rogue use her touch-based absorption as far as I recall.

She was also in the Fantastic Four/X-Men crossover, but only used Wonder Man's powers

[ChronoRogue]

The thing I didn't like about what Carey did is there was no period of working through her no longer needing to protect herself from hurting others, no needing to let go of the phychological "comfort zone" in her mind to protect herself. Carey should have had Rogue work through a period of letting go of her fear and need to protect herself because it was no longer needed and yet Rogue was in that "comfort zone" for years.

True. To be fair to Carey, CC basically avoided this as well. X-Treme was the first time in post-adolescence for Rogue she was without powers for a significant time (well besides Savage Land Rogue...) and CC didn't treat it as a be deal either when it should've been.

For someone who lived near a decade with almost no skin to skin contact, it's sad that the only importance of either revelation is that she can finally kiss her boyfriend. It would've been more heart-warming to see Rogue shed a tear from not being afraid to hug a friend without a long-sleeved shirt or gloves. Sigh so much missed opportunity.

She was also in the Fantastic Four/X-Men crossover, but only used Wonder Man's powers

Oh yes she did cameo queen there. Sadly I don't remember her having much (if any) speaking lines from that mini.

[sbo]

True. To be fair to Carey, CC basically avoided this as well. X-Treme was the first time in post-adolescence for Rogue she was without powers for a significant time (well besides Savage Land Rogue...) and CC didn't treat it as a be deal either when it should've been.

For someone who lived near a decade with almost no skin to skin contact, it's sad that the only importance of either revelation is that she can finally kiss her boyfriend. It would've been more heart-warming to see Rogue shed a tear from not being afraid to hug a friend without a long-sleeved shirt or gloves. Sigh so much missed opportunity.

That would have ben great to see. I think she just ended up getting a tattoo instead.