Matthew Rosenberg Speaks on his X-men run

[Havok83]

The way he contextualized / and reasoned for the stories he wrote, makes me like him more, and maybe even his stories. His ideas make a lot of sense. It was just his execution that was lacking. I'd much rather take this, than a competently written, but overly safe X-Men story.

Also, he's super right about Jean, and X-Men Red. I like that he has conviction, and stands by his belief in the characters, and is willing to turn down big books. Even if I don't agree with him on some of his takes, I respect him more.

IA. I came down on him hard in 2019 bc I didnt like alot of his material but he did have good ideas. The execution is what messed with alot of it and alot of that had to do with timing and editorial which caused him to truncate his books and shift things around and that didnt quite work the way it should have. I really wish he had gotten a chance to write New Mutant 2.0 instead of shoehorning a bastardized resolution in his UXM run for example

Thanks for the cliffs. I hate podcasts. I miss articles... Us mid 80s babies got the best of the best and the worst of the worst dealing with some things now. lol

No prob! I prefer articles to and wish there was a writeup for most podcast interviews

[HandofPrometheus]

Phoenix Resurrection should've had more impact and been grander. It was so mediocre and lifeless.

[Wiccan]

Oh my god. I can't believe Marvel gave up the idea of an epic cosmic event for Jean's return in favor of the mediocrity of Phoenix Resurrection...............

Lol his plan sounds like it was gonna have JG depressed and useless until Cyclops came back. Imagine not having Red and that instead. Yikes.

Thank you Sir Taylor!

To be fair, he wrote Cyclops as depressed and useless too.

[PowerPlay25]

I didn't like his Uncanny Run but I did like his Phoenix Ressurection.

He actually got me to feel emotion for the return of Jean Grey. PR #5 was the most emotionally moving comic I read in the last few years. It really drove home how, even though the Phoenix saved Jean, in a way, it did ruin her life.

She's alone in the world now. Her family is gone and they were people she was close too. We've had lots of issues through the years, where Jean is off visiting with her family. But because of the Phoenix and everything that happened to her Brothers/Sisters, nieces and nephews, Jean's own mother, died hating her. That's heavy and dark.

I also remember the final issue of his PR Mini, got a lot of positive reviews, so maybe MR isn't cut out for big sweeping stories. Maybe quiet character pieces are his thing.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Oh my god. I can't believe Marvel gave up the idea of an epic cosmic event for Jean's return in favor of the mediocrity of Phoenix Resurrection...............



To be fair, he wrote Cyclops as depressed and useless too.

The way he wrote Cyke reacting to Emma - or not reacting really - was weird to me.

As for Jean's return, I felt it was really odd that she wasn't featured in it more and that the scope and grandiosity of it was so "meh I really don't care". Now we know that Marvel wanted to make it a bigger thing at least somewhat and just got convinced not to somehow. How disappointing.

[yogaflame]

I didn't like any of his books. Thank the Goddess that's all over.

[pkingdom]

This kind of feels like damage control for him. His last couple years were pretty reviled. But it seems at least some of that was editorially mandated misery.

[Wiccan]

The way he wrote Cyke reacting to Emma - or not reacting really - was weird to me.

As for Jean's return, I felt it was really odd that she wasn't featured in it more and that the scope and grandiosity of it was so "meh I really don't care". Now we know that Marvel wanted to make it a bigger thing at least somewhat and just got convinced not to somehow. How disappointing.

I came up with a theory:

They need to take away the Phoenix from Jean. They never planned to have her come back as Phoenix. Because fucking Aaron's Avengers. But they need to sell it as ~Jean getting away from the Phoenix is empowering~. Rosenberg's idea of making a story focused on the supposed "toxic relationship" from Jean and the Phoenix helps sell that.

With the Shi'Ar involved, I imagine it would be about them trying to kill her or take the Phoenix out of her somehow. I imagine that they wouldn't succeed and Jean would still give up the Phoenix herself at the end to stop the conflict, kinda like Hope/Wanda on AvX. But that makes it look like a bad thing for her that she's forced to do, while her just personally not wanting the Phoenix feels like her gaining something rather than losing.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I came up with a theory:

They need to take away the Phoenix from Jean. They never planned to have her come back as Phoenix. Because fucking Aaron's Avengers. But they need to sell it as ~Jean getting away from the Phoenix is empowering~. Rosenberg's idea of making a story focused on the supposed "toxic relationship" from Jean and the Phoenix helps sell that.

With the Shi'Ar involved, I imagine it would be about them trying to kill her or take the Phoenix out of her somehow. I imagine that they wouldn't succeed and Jean would still give up the Phoenix herself at the end to stop the conflict, kinda like Hope/Wanda on AvX. But that makes it look like a bad thing for her that she's forced to do, while her just personally not wanting the Phoenix feels like her gaining something rather than losing.

I sort of get what he was trying to do, but the end result is that in today's canon, the Phoenix was this terrible thing that just happened to Jean and continued to hurt her rather than it being her unleashing her potential or expressing a special connection unique to her. No one asked for that and in my opinion, this take ruins works of art from people like Claremont and Morrison for no gain.

It's an example of the additive vs reductive work that Hickman talked about. Phoenix Resurrection just tore stuff down that, at least in my eyes, was better.

Knowing that the Jean return story could have been cool and celebratory just agitates a little bit.

Even if she would have lost the Phoenix regardless, having her disavow the legendary part of her character history was egregious.

[CoCoBandz]

Go and stay go.

[Tycon]

I sort of get what he was trying to do, but the end result is that in today's canon, the Phoenix was this terrible thing that just happened to Jean and continued to hurt her rather than it being her unleashing her potential or expressing a special connection unique to her. No one asked for that and in my opinion, this take ruins works of art from people like Claremont and Morrison for no gain.

It's an example of the additive vs reductive work that Hickman talked about. Phoenix Resurrection just tore stuff down that, at least in my eyes, was better.

Knowing that the Jean return story could have been cool and celebratory just agitates a little bit.

Even if she would have lost the Phoenix regardless, having her disavow the legendary part of her character history was egregious.

Yup. Rosenberg tried to rationalize a meta point about Jean stories always being overshadowed by the Phoenix in-universe but like....it just doesn’t work. It made for an emotional final issue but we’ve already seen what impeded Jean in the past and it sure as hell wasn't the Phoenix. If anything, it should’ve been treated as a major sacrifice of Jean’s greater potential in the cosmos rather than her breaking it off because the flame bird is toxic.

[starduck]

Jean's return should have been a company wide event

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Yup. Rosenberg tried to rationalize a meta point about Jean stories always being overshadowed by the Phoenix in-universe but like....it just doesn’t work. It made for an emotional final issue but we’ve already seen what impeded Jean in the past and it sure as hell wasn't the Phoenix. If anything, it should’ve been treated as a major sacrifice of Jean’s greater potential in the cosmos rather than her breaking it off because the flame bird is toxic.

Right! That's the story. If you're going to say she's done with the Phoenix, then what you emphasize being at stake is either her godhood or her connection to her family, the X-Men, and human life. Make her choose.

The entire point of the Phoenix the whole time is that it was part of her and part of who she really is.

Jean's return should have been a company wide event

Good ol' AvX. What it was supposed to be was right there for the taking.

[pkingdom]

Is it more accurate to say that the men in her life was more of what impeded Jean in the past than the Phoenix?

[Jean Grey]

Feels like he wanted to write Jean as Buffy season 6 but never went all the way, nor Marvel was keen in the idea while wanting more fireworks and flair.

I feel like the resurrection was fine, but Jean is never going to escape the Phoenix unless Marvel literally got rid of it. Everytime they reuse it with other mutants or heck even outside of the x-men, it just becomes a silly mess. And with Jean it feels like its never allowed to go far and beyond.