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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Given JJ Abrams stature in the industry, I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt theres an unaltered JJ cut somewhere out there. Also, given Lucasfilm's lack of hesitation when changing film makers, I even doubt it more that Lucasfilm would even allow JJ finish making a movie they didn't like (Rogue One and Solo had their directors changed mid-production and Episode 9 didn't even get made by Colin Trevorrow at all)

    Sure I believe there could be a directors cut that's longer but I doubt that what JJ made was significantly different from what we got in theatres.
    JJ Abrams and Lucasfilm are overseen by Disney. it is Disney that has the final say not lucasfilm or Abrams and Disney is notoriously known for allowing their cooperate heads to ruin honest potential good art. From JJ Abrams body of work, its insane for me to buy that he just brought back Palpatine with no logical explanation, even Khan from star trek into darkness that fans still hated on, he still had a back story of how he became Khan that is explained in the movie.



    And this is just beginning, the film goes further to explain khan origins ties to the other villain in the film. This is the JJ Abrams I know. this is the jj Abrams that would have done ROS differently.

    Collin Trevorrow left from the beginning because he clashed with Disney. it makes sense Disney were in control from the get go not JJ.

    Most importantly JJ entire attitude and demeanour about ROS during interviews and premieres, he does not look passionate about the film, he seems to be glad its all over. that's not a person who is fully happy with a movie he directed on his own terms.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 01-03-2020 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    JJ said very little was cut, did he not?
    He also said, ROS is not meant to correct Last Jedi. that was a lie

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    He also said, ROS is not meant to correct Last Jedi. that was a lie
    I didn't see it as a correction to The Last Jedi. The theme of TLJ was largely about learning from failure or your doomed to repeat mistakes. ROS played up those lessons and most characters, Luke included, as ways of growth.

    I guess if that's the argument, then RotJ course-corrected ESB and RotS course-corrected AotC.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Are you kidding, this is his vindication. He gave the fans what they asked for and once and for all settled that he’s the only creator of Star Wars.

    The same outrage, the same grudges, the same complaints but now nowhere to hide. Lawrence Kasdan created SW, well Solo which he produced and worked on sucked. Anyone other than Lucas can make SW, well three movies later that’s gone.

    Lucas was wrong to alter the theatrical releases. Now fans ask for a JJ abrams cut, or a remake of TLJ and so on, destroying any foundation of criticism against Lucas for touching up his movies on re-releases.

    Lucas won. Flawless Victory.
    Marcia Lucas might have a thing or two to say about that.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    Marcia Lucas might have a thing or two to say about that.
    Marcia Lucas was important for stitching together a rough cut after John Jympson botched his gig, but that's about as far as it went. The actual final edit of ANH was overseen by Paul Hirsch and Richard Crew, under the guidance of George Lucas. Paul Hirsch recently put out a book about his time editing movies and he discusses the edit of ANH.

    Marcia Lucas wasn't involved in editing the version of ANH that came out in theaters...for the simple reason that she was engaged at the time editing New York New York for Martin Scorsese.

    Marcia Lucas didn't save Star Wars any more than anybody else on ANH saved Star Wars, and without Lucas there would not be a Star Wars to save.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I doubt the the independent, NBC news, CEO employee, NME and Forbes don't count as credible news sources worth reporting.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas.../#366131bb1adf
    A Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker ‘JJ Abrams Cut’ Is Not A Thing, Don’t Make It A Thing

    https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/...-star-n1109616
    ReleaseTheJJCut hashtag trends amid rumors about a different version of new 'Star Wars' movie

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a9268641.html
    New leak 'reveals' cut Star Wars scene that would have made Rise of Skywalker more popular with fans

    https://www.nme.com/news/star-wars-f...walker-2592240
    ‘Star Wars’ fans are calling on Disney to release JJ Abrams’ cut of ‘The Rise of Skywalker’
    Always consider the source; a random Reddit thread posted by someone operating under a user name saying they were told this by an unnamed friend in the know. Right away, that should set off warning bells in regards to the information not being trustworthy. Have we seriously forgot about that guy who lied for years about what was really going on in the franchise, with fake prequel leaks and interviews with the Powers That Be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    This sounds more like an illusion for the Disney has no flaws narrative when day by day star wars is hitting one bad wall controversy after the other. On the bright side, hearing that they stripped jj abrams of the movie he wanted to make is not as bad or as cynical as them blaming Carrie Fisher's passing for the last controversy with Kelly Marie train Rose Tiko having only 76 secons screen time.
    Can we please drop the "Disney has no flaws narrative" straw man; it's getting incredibly irritating (I take it that you haven't read anything I've posted about the movie if you think that I think TROS proves that Disney has no flaws). Also, almost all of those "controversies" you're mentioning are either manufactured by disgruntled fans (as far as I can tell) or just the usual amount of "you can't please everyone" that has always been in the franchise. All that aside, pointing out that there is no reason to believe the J.J. Cut rumor has nothing to do with arguing over the quality of LucasFilm's current work of the franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As a person who knows and has seen a lot of JJ Abrams fiction, even on the small screen. I know he has more talent than what we saw with ROS.
    Remember Star Trek Into Darkness? Abrams can do bad pretty well (in fact, both movies suffer from a lot of the same problems, although I think TROS acquits itself better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    if that cut exist and I think it does. Disney owes it to fans to release it after messing up so much.
    First rule of fandom: we are owed nothing. Second rule of fandom: opinions vary. (You think the screwed up, I think they've done a great job with a few things that didn't quite work for me. So, who's right?) Third rule of fandom: we are owed nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Its not like star wars OT does not have many edition and releases. ROS JJ Cut could be another one.
    Big difference between a guy revising the movies and whether a different edit of a movie exists. (Besides, LucasFilm has essentially locked down the alternate versions and only deals with the last revision anyways).

    All that aside, the central point to all this is that there is literally no reason to believe that a secret J.J. Cut exists. I think we just have to accept that the TROS we got, for better or worse, is the final word on the Skywalker Saga. It's not the first time a Star Wars movie had vocal critics, it won't be the last. Fandom will continue on, as it always has.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Always consider the source; a random Reddit thread posted by someone operating under a user name saying they were told this by an unnamed friend in the know. Right away, that should set off warning bells in regards to the information not being trustworthy. Have we seriously forgot about that guy who lied for years about what was really going on in the franchise, with fake prequel leaks and interviews with the Powers That Be?
    As a defence to reddit, all the leaks that came out 3 months ago about the film turned out true, it was a Reddit source. Either way, it was credible enough to draw the attention of many other credible sources from NBC to Forbes. Also you have to understand that when a bombshell like this drop or a rumour drops they always tend to catch wild fire if its sounds believable or there is a pattern of behaviour from the person or the studio. We all know Disney's history, Disney does not make director driven films. The original director for ROS Collin Trevorrow had already left due to creative differences. Why will it now be a shock that JJ Abrams was screwed over?

    Can we please drop the "Disney has no flaws narrative" straw man; it's getting incredibly irritating (I take it that you haven't read anything I've posted about the movie if you think that I think TROS proves that Disney has no flaws). Also, almost all of those "controversies" you're mentioning are either manufactured by disgruntled fans (as far as I can tell) or just the usual amount of "you can't please everyone" that has always been in the franchise. All that aside, pointing out that there is no reason to believe the J.J. Cut rumor has nothing to do with arguing over the quality of LucasFilm's current work of the franchise.
    For a second, I thought it was 2017 again when fans were called disgruntled and Rian and Disney JJ said, the outrage was manufactured by racist and sexist trolls. nothing here is manufactured, unless Kelly Marie train did get more than 76 second of screen time or JJ Abrams body of work has always been like generic superhero movies that underestimates the minds of kids. I think there is solid evidence that shows none of this is manufactured since Disney themselves have had to directly respond to some of the controversies.


    Remember Star Trek Into Darkness? Abrams can do bad pretty well (in fact, both movies suffer from a lot of the same problems, although I think TROS acquits itself better.
    Into darkness is a masterpiece compared to ROS. Screen writing 101. its better to still have some explainable story Khan (some story) than no story Palatine (no story)

    Khan ironically turned out to be the most layered character in the film after Spock. he had a back story that you could feel sorry for him, he had a mission and he actually did damage to entire enterprise and exposed star fleet for the fraud they could be. why is palatine back apart from the reason snoke was killed in TLJ? . From a screen writing point, ROS will be better if they brought back Snoke.

    Abrams did take time to establish Khan.



    How he did it is up to everyone to decide if they like it or not but at least he did it. The criticism of Khan in into darkness was that it was too soon to do Khan as a rivalry to the classic Wrath of Khan because the young cast of the jj films had not earned it. Palatine's presences in ROS makes no sense and it destroys 6 worth of stories that started in Episode 1 and ended it episode 6.


    Additionally Khan has reasons to exist into darkness as it is an alternate reality. Palaptine should be dead not just because he did die in ROTJ but because it was[B] Anakin's redemption sacrifice story. So ROS Palpatine's is objectivity a lot worse. if I was to ask any of the best screen writers in Hollywood on this issue, they will have the same opinons. Even Lucas and Ian McDiarmid said Palatine should be dead.

    This is why I am trapped with the Disney has no flaw narrative because it is that narrative that will try and convince me that palatine's presence in ROS is better than Khan's in into darkness, even though I can't find any logic to it when I compare both movies that JJ Abrams directed. poor Abrams.

    First rule of fandom: we are owed nothing. Second rule of fandom: opinions vary. (You think the screwed up, I think they've done a great job with a few things that didn't quite work for me. So, who's right?) Third rule of fandom: we are owed nothing.
    I thought Ms Kennedy said they were making the movie for fans? Besides, it is fans that go to cinema to watch the movies. Also fans seems to be getting a lot of things rights this few years than most critics and studios because fans are keeping their receipts on the lore and mythology of the franchises they love so much.
    Big difference between a guy revising the movies and whether a different edit of a movie exists. (Besides, LucasFilm has essentially locked down the alternate versions and only deals with the last revision anyways).

    All that aside, the central point to all this is that there is literally no reason to believe that a secret J.J. Cut exists. I think we just have to accept that the TROS we got, for better or worse, is the final word on the Skywalker Saga. It's not the first time a Star Wars movie had vocal critics, it won't be the last. Fandom will continue on, as it always has.
    As I said, JJ's entire demeanour gives it away. its a deja vu, for a movie that has brought so much mess, there is always more. dark phoenix, the director is saying, it was meant to be two movies and the last arc was cut out. Also remember iron man 2? mickey rouke said most of what he did was cut out for the final movie? remember age of Ultron, whedon said Disney cut out a lot of the drama he tired to put in the film and now remember the infamous Snyder cut? Snyder has even admitted the film is only 1/3 of what he did. there is more reasons to believe the cut exist and also , most importantly from JJ Abrams body of work, he can do better than ROS and this is where I am drawing the line to believe that everything is true.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 01-04-2020 at 12:27 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    I didn't see it as a correction to The Last Jedi. The theme of TLJ was largely about learning from failure or your doomed to repeat mistakes. ROS played up those lessons and most characters, Luke included, as ways of growth.

    I guess if that's the argument, then RotJ course-corrected ESB and RotS course-corrected AotC.


    You know one of the most cringe worthy correction? How Fin treated Rose. ST trilogy should pat themselves in the back. they gave us 2 awkward kisses. all of a sudden Anakin talking of sand to seduce and kiss padme is the stuff of Shakespare.

    It was JJ metaphorically slapping Rian's face when Luke says ''this is not the way to treat a lightsaber''. The JJ Cut must have more course correction.

    It has been officially confirmed JJ wanted 2 films for ROS. I am guessing, the first film would be to correct last jedi and the second film will be for JJ to make his visionary movie.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 01-04-2020 at 12:30 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As a defence to reddit, all the leaks that came out 3 months ago about the film turned out true, it was a Reddit source. Either way, it was credible enough to draw the attention of many other credible sources from NBC to Forbes.
    I think you're mistaking commenting on popular rumors and clickbait with verification. Heck, the Forbes article on it points out that the rumor is not plausible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Also you have to understand that when a bombshell like this drop or a rumour drops they always tend to catch wild fire if its sounds believable or there is a pattern of behaviour from the person or the studio. We all know Disney's history, Disney does not make director driven films. The original director for ROS Collin Trevorrow had already left due to creative differences. Why will it now be a shock that JJ Abrams was screwed over?
    Oh, I know why they rumor is popular (wishful thinking, well-founded or otherwise, with websites knowing clickbait when they see it). However, the original problem remains; this whole idea is based on an anonymous posting a claim that he or she was leaked info from an equally anonymous source. This information cannot be confirmed, vetted, or meet any of the standards that is expected from journalism in regard to the accuracy of a scoop. Why are we buying into something that has no reason to be even considered as a possible answer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    For a second, I thought it was 2017 again when fans were called disgruntled and Rian and Disney JJ said, the outrage was manufactured by racist and sexist trolls.
    That's actually a pretty accurate assessment of 2017. Sad to say, we haven't evolved much since.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    nothing here is manufactured, unless Kelly Marie train did get more than 76 second of screen time or JJ Abrams body of work has always been like generic superhero movies that underestimates the minds of kids. I think there is solid evidence that shows none of this is manufactured since Disney themselves have had to directly respond to some of the controversies.
    I agree with the Tran thing (and notice how most of the complainers seem to be fans of these movies? Thought that most fans hated them?). However, much like 2017, the "backlash" is really overstated (heck, if we go by Rotten Tomatoes, the main evidence used to show that TLJ was rejected by the fans, TROS is actually pretty well-liked). Anecdotal, but most of what I've seen is generally positive, with a few complaints about some weak spots, which I think is a fair assessment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Into darkness is a masterpiece compared to ROS. Screen writing 101. its better to still have some explainable story Khan (some story) than no story Palatine (no story)

    Khan ironically turned out to be the most layered character in the film after Spock. he had a back story that you could feel sorry for him, he had a mission and he actually did damage to entire enterprise and exposed star fleet for the fraud they could be. why is palatine back apart from the reason snoke was killed in TLJ? . From a screen writing point, ROS will be better if they brought back Snoke.

    Abrams did take time to establish Khan.

    How he did it is up to everyone to decide if they like it or not but at least he did it. The criticism of Khan in into darkness was that it was too soon to do Khan as a rivalry to the classic Wrath of Khan because the young cast of the jj films had not earned it. Palatine's presences in ROS makes no sense and it destroys 6 worth of stories that started in Episode 1 and ended it episode 6.

    Additionally Khan has reasons to exist into darkness as it is an alternate reality. Palaptine should be dead not just because he did die in ROTJ but because it was[B] Anakin's redemption sacrifice story. So ROS Palpatine's is objectivity a lot worse. if I was to ask any of the best screen writers in Hollywood on this issue, they will have the same opinons.
    Into Darkness has the messier story (did Admiral Marcus know that the Augments were in the torpedos?). Abrams did good actor direction in both. TROS has more heart and actually said something beyond "hey, remember how cool Wrath of Khan was?"). I'd take that one myself, but mileage may vary.

    Wouldn't Kahn be better compared to Kylo Ren and Palpatine to Admiral Marcus, in terms of their roles in the story? Palpatine is given sufficient enough explanation (tying back to ROTS, thus building off of what we already knew was established). Also, how is Anakin's redemption story "ruined" because Palpatine cheated his death (his redemption was in saving his son and returning to the light, which were not undone)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Even Lucas and Ian McDiarmid said Palatine should be dead.
    "Some people feel like we shouldn't revisit the idea of Palpatine, and I completely understand that. But if you're looking at these nine films as one story, I don't know many books where the last few chapters have nothing to do with those that have come before. If you look at the first eight films, all the set-ups of what we're doing in IX are there in plain view." - J. J. Abrams

    Agree or disagree, there was a method to the madness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    This is why I am trapped with the Disney has no flaw narrative because it is that narrative that will try and convince me that palatine's presence in ROS is better than Khan's in into darkness, even though I can't find any logic to it when I compare both movies that JJ Abrams directed. poor Abrams.
    That is illogical. Abrams' success or lack thereof in executing this plot point in the movie has nothing to do with whether Disney has no flaws. In fact, the only one arguing that people say that is you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I thought Ms Kennedy said they were making the movie for fans?
    That is their right if they want to. It's just not our privilege to expect it. (Besides, what about the fans that liked the movie?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Besides, it is fans that go to cinema to watch the movies.
    Fans are the minority of the people who watch these things. The general audience is much larger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Also fans seems to be getting a lot of things rights this few years than most critics and studios because fans are keeping their receipts on the lore and mythology of the franchises they love so much.
    If I was Leland Chee or one of the Story Group members, I would be offended right now. Besides, the whole "Rey is Mary Sue" thing has shown me just how little some fans know the franchise and its world building (not to mention their ability to follow the information presented in the movies).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As I said, JJ's entire demeanour gives it away. its a deja vu, for a movie that has brought so much mess, there is always more. dark phoenix, the director is saying, it was meant to be two movies and the last arc was cut out. Also remember iron man 2? mickey rouke said most of what he did was cut out for the final movie? remember age of Ultron, whedon said Disney cut out a lot of the drama he tired to put in the film and now remember the infamous Snyder cut? Snyder has even admitted the film is only 1/3 of what he did. there is more reasons to believe the cut exist and also , most importantly from JJ Abrams body of work, he can do better than ROS and this is where I am drawing the line to believe that everything is true.
    Circumstantial evidence is not proof, and as stated before, there is no actual evidence to support this highly questionable claim. Abrams is not too good to fail at something (as are we all). There is no reason to believe that a J.J. Cut exists and every reason to believe that it's a hoax. "Surely you must understand this."
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I think you're mistaking commenting on popular rumors and clickbait with verification. Heck, the Forbes article on it points out that the rumor is not plausible.
    No I wasn't. I am only more convinced that this is the only way to explain the dump fire of the entire ST trilogy.

    I agree with the Tran thing (and notice how most of the complainers seem to be fans of these movies? Thought that most fans hated them?). However, much like 2017, the "backlash" is really overstated (heck, if we go by Rotten Tomatoes, the main evidence used to show that TLJ was rejected by the fans, TROS is actually pretty well-liked). Anecdotal, but most of what I've seen is generally positive, with a few complaints about some weak spots, which I think is a fair assessment.
    We at now at the point of a reckoning . there is going to be some big changes going forward, that wont happen if the backlash was overrated


    Into Darkness has the messier story (did Admiral Marcus know that the Augments were in the torpedos?). Abrams did good actor direction in both. TROS has more heart and actually said something beyond "hey, remember how cool Wrath of Khan was?"). I'd take that one myself, but mileage may vary.
    A more convoluted story or messy story as you want to call it, is still better than a movie with no story. Into darkness is the lesser evil of the two jj movies. its funny you are saying its cool to remember how cool wrath of Kahn was watching into darkness, but believe me, it is more horrible to remember that palpatine actually died in ROTJ and was brought back in ROS. I will take a misguided uncool written Khan in into darkness, to bad fan fiction of ROS Palaptine.


    That is their right if they want to. It's just not our privilege to expect it. (Besides, what about the fans that liked the movie?)
    This is what the studios says when they don't want to talk any responsibility for their bad decisions or how they screw a franchise.


    Wouldn't Kahn be better compared to Kylo Ren and Palpatine to Admiral Marcus, in terms of their roles in the story? Palpatine is given sufficient enough explanation (tying back to ROTS, thus building off of what we already knew was established).
    No. Palatine has no sufficient explanation, infact this is a top 3 criticism of the film that did a lot of damage to the reception.
    Also, how is Anakin's redemption story "ruined" because Palpatine cheated his death (his redemption was in saving his son and returning to the light, which were not undone)?
    Because Palatine had to die and stay dead for Anakin's sacrifice to matter. As padme had to die for anakin to finally fully embrace the dark side.

    Fans are the minority of the people who watch these things. The general audience is much larger.
    the same general audiences will be the first to tell you that just because they go to movies to be entertained does not mean they cannot tell the difference between how qualities varies in movies.

    If I was Leland Chee or one of the Story Group members, I would be offended right now. Besides, the whole "Rey is Mary Sue" thing has shown me just how little some fans know the franchise and its world building (not to mention their ability to follow the information presented in the movies).
    How offended did you think George Lucas is at this point? Also how offended do you think JJ Abrams is with what is going on with ROS? JJ dreamed of making star wars as a kid, he even said he felt bad that Lucas was not a big fan of force awakens, he has sort of apologised for TFA being a new hope 2.0. so with this latest mess, how do you think he feels that his dream is now a sort of a nightmare? as for rey being a Mary Sue, Rey is no Sydney Bristow from Alias and according to the leaks, JJ said he felt Rey was overpowered. which is a Mary sue quality,

    Circumstantial evidence is not proof, and as stated before, there is no actual evidence to support this highly questionable claim. Abrams is not too good to fail at something (as are we all). There is no reason to believe that a J.J. Cut exists and every reason to believe that it's a hoax. "Surely you must understand this."
    okay. however where there is smoke , there is fire.

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    I can't help but wonder just exactly why, if the original ending had Ben Solo survive, they changed it?
    I suspect it's because some people keep insisting that Kylo 'abused'Rey when he probed her mind in The Force Awakens.

    Frankly it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Kylo Ren was gentle when he attempted to read her mind, compared with the ruthlessness Snoke, who was coded as an abuser, used on her in The Last Jedi. Prof. X took over the minds of dozens of unsuspecting men, women and children in X2, turning them into living statues, yet no one suggested that was 'abusive'.
    Kylo used the Force to throw her against a tree. He did it because she was about to shoot him, and in any case he stunned her when he could have Force choked her.
    Kylo never abused Rey. In return she sliced open his face and shoulder, stabbed him in the chest with his own lightsabre - while he was unarmed - and also tried to shoot him in TLJ, again when he was unarmed.
    Kylo wasn't an abuser, in fact he was a victim, of Snoke's manipulation, and according to the comics, physical abuse. In any case this is FANTASY. There are many more 'romances' in fiction that are far more controversial.
    I wish these idiots would spend more time with real abuse victims rather than venting their spleen on a fantasy film, to the extent that they influence the makers into changing the ending from an upbeat one to one that was not only depressing, but made zero sense.

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    It was probably a much simpler reason; to echo the end of RotJ (bad guy turns good, sacrifices himself/dies).
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    I doubt there's any cut of this film that will make it a good movie. It was doomed from the first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I doubt there's any cut of this film that will make it a good movie. It was doomed from the first.

    I know but at least it could have had an uplifting ending. Instead the last of the Skywalker bloodline dies, and the heroine who desperately wanted a family and loved green things ends up alone on a barren desert planet. Only this time knowing that the love of her life is gone.

    Hardly feel good stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    destroying any foundation of criticism against Lucas for touching up his movies on re-releases.
    Because those movies were good, and are stone cold classics, and the changes didn't improve the movies.

    These movies are a hot mess, and people wish they were better. I'm sure these same people would love special editions of the PT that improved the movies.

    It's not complicated math.

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