So I'm confused. Do you want her to be redeemed or don't you?
Because I'm not arguing in favor of her being redeemed going forward. Just that she started out sympathetically before her path to villainy, but after a certain point she's a full villain. Same as most of the major Bat-villains who aren't the Joker and have a sob story in their origin.
And I didn't say the evil god made her do things. He cursed her, but she ignored Diana's warnings and took part in the ritual for glory and power, and it bit her in the ass. She does it all on her own and blames others when it goes wrong. I'm arguing against the comparisons to Sabertooth which don't fit are rarely ever have.
No I am saying if the writers wanted to redeem her, they would have give her real redeeming qualities.
You did not answer my question, what are her redeeming qualities?
You can argue that saying she is a female Sabertooth is going too far, but there are fair amount of times where she just written as an irredeemable psychopath, I just pointed one out. To redeem her, she would need a character arc to be redeemed, I am not saying she should be redeemed, I am disagreeing with the OP that would make sense for the character at this point.
I’m ok with this. I’m a little bored/fatigued by the blood-thirsty, savage Cheetah and would be way more receptive to an amoral intellectual/antihero version that leans into the Barbara persona. She should be helping Diana secure dangerous magical/divine artifacts.
That's true. But I don't think that's on the table, and i'm glad it isn't.
While I'm not a fan of the ship, her love for Etta for one.
Read Rucka's Rebirth run, particularly her role in Year One (including the interlude issue that focuses on her childhood) and the bits of Godwatch pre-transformation. Does any of this read as an irredeemable psychopath? She loves her girlfriend, she is kind and curious and respectful of other cultures. Her ambitions and envy of Diana lead her down a path that lead to her getting cursed, which drove her insane. The subsequent mental trauma made her and her actions worse. So at this point, I agree that it does not make sense for her character to be redeemed at this point, but that's different than her always having been irredeemable or evil from the start
when they did it with Teth Adam it was an incredibly sad story. ;-; Teth Adam was so heart broken by the end of the story that he gave away his powers to Mary Batson even though he knew he might turn to dust as a result. When he went back to being Black Adam you knew he was gonna rip someone a new one...or DCAU Wait.. Garth Ranzz (Live Wire) or Leslie Willis(Livewire)?The Super Friends stigma will fade when WW84 comes out. The same way the Aquaman movie mostly washed the SF stigma from him. The show isn't really played that often on TV anymore and the current generation is too young to remember it, so they base their opinions on the movies.
Poison Ivy has one character trait that doesn't come up in stories often, but is something a lot of people would sympathize with and on it's own is almost enough to make her an anti-hero. She likes children. In the No Man's Land story Ivy took over protecting Gotham's orphans. Also in Batman: TAS there's a recurring theme with her. She keeps calling her plant creations "children" and gets super pissed when Batman destroys them. Why? Well in one episode she mentions that's she's physically incapable of giving birth to children the old fashioned way. And some of her creations ARE actual people! Such as Bruce Wayne's wife: https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Susan_Maguire (Batman totally murdered her.)I like Barbara Minerva as a conflicted character who has desires she can't have because her desires conflict with each other.Ivy and Selina are not even the same kind of "femme fatale". Ivy doesn't seduce men in the same way Selina does or for the same reason.
I thought of another fun example of it being done with a guy. Riddler, in one story arc he decided that testing his intellect by leaving absurd riddles laying around was not a good way to get the general public to see him as intellectually superior to Batman,. so he decided to challenge Batman in a way Batman had never been challenged by one of his rogues before! By becoming a police detective working for the GCPD! His goal: to prove he was smarter than Batman by solving crimes better than Batman!
The concept amuses me greatly, not sure the writers really knew what to do with it though.
The, "I want Harley to stay a straight villain and not become an anti-hero" ship sailed a long time ago. In fact, I think it sailed way back when DC made a conscious decision to take her out of the Joker's shadow and keep the two of them separated. She's eventually going to end up like Catwoman; just being fully viewed and accepted as an anti-hero rather than a villain.
Last edited by Uncanny Mutie; 01-08-2020 at 05:15 AM.