X-Men #4 - Global Economics *SPOILERS*

[People Of The Earth]

Happy New Year to all of you! Hope you had a tremendous period between Christmas and New Years Eve, I know I did

I took the liberty to post a spoiler thread for this issue, because I didn't see one - obviously if I missed it, I'll ask that the mods merge this with the existing one if possible. If not, well, that's unfortunate.

Anyhow.

This issue starts with a setting that is, I think, entirely made to adress (in)directly some of the recurring topics brought forth by X-fans on both social media and forums like this one. I Don't know if it's "good" that the writer feels the need to take an entire issue to adress every point being made on his story, but I for once certainly appreciated it...

Davos.

The famous World Economic Forum who's held annually in that small ski resort in Switzerland (well, not exactly: there are several WEF meetings throughout the year, but Davos is the biggest, most famous one).
From the get go, there's a feeling that consolidation of power and statu quo stabilization is the priority to the platform and the thousands who'll be part of it, if the theme's choice is any indication.
"Secure", "Maintain", "Cohesive": none of this lexicon strikes me as "New Age" material, if anything it sounds like more of the same grinded to a halt "evolution" that Hickman will take the time to highlight and denounce in the issue.
Don't Believe me?
Try and add "for us" at the end of the theme, and the chosen lexicon makes much more sense all of a sudden…
And given it's happening only one month after the unveiling of Krakoa by Xavier to the world, it's even par for the course: shifts of this scale tend to stir up the hornet's net, so to speak.

The arrival of the Kraked at Davos is grandiose.
Not in the flashy sense of the word, no.
More in the little things like the subtil banter between Cyclops and Magneto, ironizing on the sapiens, or Simply seeing Xavier, Apocalypse and Magneto rock such amazing suits…
I mean, enterring the world stage like three giants…
Magneto do rock his suit amazingly, he looks so sharp!
I'm fangirling, but Simply put, I think Yu did an amazing job this issue in his rendition of the characters.
They look sharp (bis), and I love how Cyclops and Gorgon are flanking the three Councilmen looking like flegmatic bodyguards.
The head of security that receives them doesn't seem to realize how incredibly dangerous those guys are, Something Gorgon casually point out to him when he asks him to surrender his sword.

The dinner scene.
Casual display of diplomacy, in spite of bloody history between some of the actors…
I imagine it's close enough to what actually occurs IRL when gathering like these happen...
It's interesting to see that three of the most powerful nations of 616 are politically represented (USA, China and Wakanda), it might mean Krakoa will have a seat at their table in the future, if those nations take them so seriously (as they honestly should).
Still.
You knew the moment they toasted to peace, that things were phoney and would spiral out of control.
And in a sense, that's what happens.
Xavier discovers there's two assault teams on stand-by to storm them, from above and below. An Opportunity for Cyclops and Gorgon to show off their skills and… differing fighting style while dealing with them (and for the former, more of his bantering side).
Don't know enough about Gorgon to judge if his voice was properly done here, but I liked his no-nonsense, stoic but honorable side all the same.
Played-off well with Cyclops more relaxed and casual approach.

Now, about what I would call "the debate" and what is, I think, the core of the issue: an adress to X-fans (and non-X-fans) who've raised various points about the Kraked in the previous weeks, if not months now.

I find it interesting that Hickman chose Magneto as his spokesperson in this conversation: neither the cooperative Xavier, nor the specist Apocalypse.
It drives the point home that Moira's "dream" is driven and supported much more by the philosophies of this man, than those of the two other Councilmen with him, imo.

And beyond him, the writer himself.

"Krakoa is the new normal" he says, and people need to accept that.
The wakandan representative voice what many here said before: people do not discuss the existence of a nation like Krakoa, nor the necessity of it and what drives it at the end of the day - id est, the pursuit of its own interests.
It is expected of a nation to act like this for the betterment of its citizens and I like how the wakandan representative drives the point home by pointing out the trade deal offered by Krakoa is not in the best interest of his country for the time being.
People were wondering if there were tensions between Krakoa and Wakanda as a result, given the Kraked' stance with nations that do not take their deal to consider them as potential enemies, but there was none to be seen here, so it's safe to say that the entente is cordial between those two for now.

What people have been questionning however, was the dichotomy between what drives Krakoa, which is mutant future dominance of Earth - "the true inheritors" - , and what drives the X-Men, which is Xavier's dream of peaceful coexistence in principle.
And I say in principle, because, as pointed out, it's not what fuels the doctrine of Krakoa and by extension, what the X-Men do as members of that nation.
It was nice to see Xavier admits he'll never stop believing in his dream, eventhough it will take a back seat for as long as Krakoa's isolationist stance is a thing.
And regarding the fact that seldom sapiens can cross their borders, Apocalypse kicks the can down the road with his retort... which misses the point royally.
Yes, the Kraked are trading with other nations and going to meeting like Davos, but that's nowhere near the same thing than having families and friends be able to see their people on Krakoa, despite not being mutants.
If that wasn't a dismissal from Hickman on this specific topic, I Don't know what is...

People have been clashing over this notion, that peaceful coexistence and mutant dominance were mutually exclusive in a balanced Relationship between sapiens and mutants, and others said they weren't so.
Here, the stance Magneto take is clear: domination over the planet is the endgame for the Kraked.
The drugs and their trading is the tool they'll use to "game" the system and achieve that, so to speak.
Using the same tactics that sapien nations use to consolidate their hold over critical/pivotal assets (Financial institutions, places of education, media conglomerates, even politicians) and shift things in their favor cleanly, and quietly.
There's a direct critique of modern capitalism, its excesses and the institutions that enable this, where shortages are designed artificially for profit, basic needs use as leverage to achieve the same outcome, and unpleasant truths hidden or rewritten to support that narrative. That Magneto would go as far as to quote Huxley and his work (and I'm pretty sure there was a poster who made a reference to him around this forum months ago) is further proof of that, to me at least.
Is he postulating that Krakoa's model is a paradigm shift that will topple that western model?
Well, who knows?
Magneto certainly Believe this at least.
Though I'd like to point out - because it is so easily overlooked in our ethno-centrism, and it was overlooked here by Hickman to further his argument - but the Truth he spoke about the Dark Ages and the loss of knowledge is Truth only in the West, specifically western Europe. It wasn't the case in the East nor in Middle East who saw a boon in science and culture while Europe plummeted.
And since it's 616 we are talking about, I'm confident Wakanda fared pretty well in that period as well…
So, the whole "sapiens Always forget where they come from" would have been more impactful with a better example than the one Magneto chose...

The italian businesswoman called things out as they were - Dangerous posturing that paves the way for the clash of ideologies in a war. And despite Magneto's certitude that the Kraked will game the system fast enough to implement the changes they want on a global scale, and without real challenge to them, I tend to agree with that woman - a conflict is inevitable in the future, for the simple Reason that this conflict is centered around the Survival of one branch of humanity over the other branch, not a conflict centered "Simply" on competition over limited resources. The american stupid attempt is also fueled by this realization...
Xavier is basically telling the sapiens that they have no choice in the matter: the world they all live in belongs to mutants according to said mutants.
And the sapiens can decide whether to accept it quietly, or refuse the shift and face the music as a result…
In all this, I find interesting that Xavier urges them to evolve and become Something greater. I know he meant it in a moral sense, but it's mirroring what some sapiens are trying to do with technology and the theme of transhumanism…
Maybe they'll take his words at face value and trudge further along onto that path…
Who knows.
I was too busy admiring the looks of these gentlemen as they departed from Davos.


4/5

Brilliant issue.
The art, the dialogues, the setting - it all cliqued so well.
It's nice to see Hickman directly tackle the points raised by the Community of X-fans, though I hope the exercice will remain punctual.
I can't say I agree with all the argument he used, but it offers Clarity at the very least and it's welcomed.
Kind of highlited how the Quiet Council is really this Triumvirate plus various hanger-ons though...
Still, what a read to start the year.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Now, about what I would call "the debate" and what is, I think, the core of the issue: an adress to X-fans (and non-X-fans) who've raised various points about the Kraked in the previous weeks, if not months now.

I find it interesting that Hickman chose Magneto as his spokesperson in this conversation: neither the cooperative Xavier, nor the specist Apocalypse.
It drives the point home that Moira's "dream" is driven and supported much more by the philosophies of this man, than those of the two other Councilmen with him, imo.

And beyond him, the writer himself.

"Krakoa is the new normal" he says, and people need to accept that.
The wakandan representative voice what many here said before: people do not discuss the existence of a nation like Krakoa, nor the necessity of it and what drives it at the end of the day - id est, the pursuit of its own interests.
It is expected of a nation to act like this for the betterment of its citizens and I like how the wakandan representative drives the point home by pointing out the trade deal offered by Krakoa is not in the best interest of his country for the time being.
People were wondering if there were tensions between Krakoa and Wakanda as a result, given the Kraked' stance with nations that do not take their deal to consider them as potential enemies, but there was none to be seen here, so it's safe to say that the entente is cordial between those two for now.

What people have been questionning however, was the dichotomy between what drives Krakoa, which is mutant future dominance of Earth - "the true inheritors" - , and what drives the X-Men, which is Xavier's dream of peaceful coexistence in principle.
And I say in principle, because, as pointed out, it's not what fuels the doctrine of Krakoa and by extension, what the X-Men do as members of that nation.
It was nice to see Xavier admits he'll never stop believing in his dream, eventhough it will take a back seat for as long as Krakoa's isolationist stance is a thing.
And regarding the fact that seldom sapiens can cross their borders, Apocalypse kicks the can down the road with his retort... which misses the point royally.
Yes, the Kraked are trading with other nations and going to meeting like Davos, but that's nowhere near the same thing than having families and friends be able to see their people on Krakoa, despite not being mutants.
If that wasn't a dismissal from Hickman on this specific topic, I Don't know what is...


People have been clashing over this notion, that peaceful coexistence and mutant dominance were mutually exclusive in a balanced Relationship between sapiens and mutants, and others said they weren't so.

(Happy new year to you too, I hope the holidays were amazing!!)

Thankyou for starting this thread and, especially, for putting into words what did especially bother me when I put the book down.

I know I've been most vocal about asking for such specific clarification...which is makes it all the more frustrating in that, I just don't know how to feel about it.

On the one hand, I appreciate the admittance that no, Xavier hasn't been bullied completely out of his dream. It doesn't endear me to the character, still, because the 're-contextualisation' of events really, really prevent me from seeing him as anything other than a sociopathic manipulator (Moira too, but that's it's own discussion), but still. That and seeing Wolverine's reasoning elsewhere is encouraging.

But so far as the attitude taken to address it...it really does feel like dismissal on a meta level. One half patronising, one half tone-deaf. Part of me can't help but think that Hickman just feels 'obligated' to have Charles say that but he, himself doesn't truly believe it. But then...I really do not view Charles' character to be in any way, shape or form genuine considering the horrible light this whole 're-contextualisation' puts him in. I mean, what emotions were ever genuine from him? Moira's death for example; what was meant to be a devastating loss, a shattering of part of his very world was just a lie considering that was just a 'dummy' of sorts (and don't even get me started on how I feel about Moira for it.)

And even then, like you said, it doesn't address the matter of more inter-personal relationships; families effectively separated, whether or not hypothetical humans born on Krakoa are truly 'accepted', ect, ect. It's especially frustrating when you've got such attitudes as Apocalypse and Magneto's going completely unchecked.

Like Apocalypse is just hateful throughout this whole thing and yet, not once does Charles think to mediate it in the interest of diplomacy. I understand needing to show political power, but I don't think that had to come at the expense of manners.

And on that note, where I used to truly empathise with Magneto's position, I am honestly sick of seeing him. He is so, so pompous. On the one hand, yeah, that is a testament to Hickman's grasp of his voice because, yeah, that's Magneto, but on the other...like, everything turns into an argument with this guy. Every little thing that comes out of his mouth is some kind of slight against 'humanity' and how he's happy he's finally free to reject it unchecked.

Ok, yeah, great for you Erik, you got all your dreams ever in a pretty little basket.

And it's the long-term implications of that that really, really keep me from enjoying this end of the new direction. I mean, I like seeing how it's handled in Excalibur between Betsy and Pete, but then, it feels more balanced on the whole there. With Hickman it's just...really unpleasant to sit through.

And, as mentioned in your review, that's not even touching upon the hypocrisy being spouted from both Magneto and Apocalypse, historical inaccuracies or otherwise (and by that, of course, I mean how it was only Europe that lost its' history and didn't thrive as well as the rest of the world, not Apocalypse ending the bronze-age.)

But all in all, yeah, better than previous issues for sure! I gotta give it that! Just still don't love this end of the X-verse, unfortunately.

[Snoop Dogg]

I'm disappointed we had to shift away from hard socioeconomics for a generic assassination attempt and more lecturing, but C, E, and T going off and flexing almost makes up for it. HORDECULTURE remains unsurpassed.

[yogaflame]

I find it very interesting that Hickman is using such a strong capitalistic tactic for the mutants this new era, when the whole revival of the X-Men in Marvel is very much a capitalistic response to the Disney acquisition of Fox and thus the renewed interest in capitalizing off of the X-Men IP(which the sales of the HOX/POX/DoX have proven to be a good one).

[houndsofluv]

I find it very interesting that Hickman is using such a strong capitalistic tactic for the mutants this new era, when the whole revival of the X-Men in Marvel is very much a capitalistic response to the Disney acquisition of Fox and thus the renewed interest in capitalizing off of the X-Men IP(which the sales of the HOX/POX/DoX have proven to be a good one).

now this is the discourse i love. generally speaking I cant see a corporation like Disney (and to a lesser though still potent extent, Marvel) allowing any character peddling anti-capitalist rhetoric to be seen as a hero. they've built and continue to build an empire off of Ye Olde Grate American Dreame TM: the negative results of capitalism can be blamed on the elusive Bad Capitalists, while the Good Capitalists like ol' Walt keep the well-oiled system running - and you too can be just like him, if you work hard enough. Xavier and his cohort have been previously established as Good - let the capitalism ensue.

I think the idea of a meta-satire would be super interesting and worthwhile to pursue. And perfectly possible, considering the angle of currency on Krakoa; mutants have no real need for a currency and yet Xavier amasses billions of human dollars to keep the island running. He is, in a way, bleeding human resources dry through his almost ridiculous array of shell companies for the good of mutant kind. Stabbing humans through the back with their own knife . I wonder if any writers will actually be allowed to "go there" though

[yogaflame]

I mean, Hickman essentially already has. It's infuriating to see him do this with Magneto in this issue so eloquently, while over in Marauders, which essentially should be about global economics, it's playing out more like some base reality tv show/dumb action movie.

[Snoop Dogg]

Damn Krakoapitalists. You can give them the guillotine, but then they just respawn. That island is green in more ways than one.

[Vegan Daddy]

“While you were protecting those who hate and fear you, I was studying the blade.”

- Gorgon

[yogaflame]

Damn Krakoapitalists. You can give them the guillotine, but then they just respawn. That island is green in more ways than one.

It's the Green New Deal. Take it or go extinct.

[CGAR]

I love when Hickman really delves into and answers the questions a lot of us have.

I hope the resurrection series goes into whether or not depowered mutants can get their powers back.

I'd want it dealt with here but I don't think he will.

Seeing as they got Proteus, Jamie Braddock, Elixir, and Warlock on the island it shouldnt be a problem.

[Huntsman Spider]

I find it very interesting that Hickman is using such a strong capitalistic tactic for the mutants this new era, when the whole revival of the X-Men in Marvel is very much a capitalistic response to the Disney acquisition of Fox and thus the renewed interest in capitalizing off of the X-Men IP(which the sales of the HOX/POX/DoX have proven to be a good one).

now this is the discourse i love. generally speaking I cant see a corporation like Disney (and to a lesser though still potent extent, Marvel) allowing any character peddling anti-capitalist rhetoric to be seen as a hero. they've built and continue to build an empire off of Ye Olde Grate American Dreame TM: the negative results of capitalism can be blamed on the elusive Bad Capitalists, while the Good Capitalists like ol' Walt keep the well-oiled system running - and you too can be just like him, if you work hard enough. Xavier and his cohort have been previously established as Good - let the capitalism ensue.

I think the idea of a meta-satire would be super interesting and worthwhile to pursue. And perfectly possible, considering the angle of currency on Krakoa; mutants have no real need for a currency and yet Xavier amasses billions of human dollars to keep the island running. He is, in a way, bleeding human resources dry through his almost ridiculous array of shell companies for the good of mutant kind. Stabbing humans through the back with their own knife . I wonder if any writers will actually be allowed to "go there" though

I mean, Hickman essentially already has. It's infuriating to see him do this with Magneto in this issue so eloquently, while over in Marauders, which essentially should be about global economics, it's playing out more like some base reality tv show/dumb action movie.

Interesting points there. I would bring up Immortal Hulk and his/Banner's war on the more blatantly corrupt aspects of capitalism as represented by Roxxon and Dario Agger, but since it's supposed to be somewhat dubious whether or not Hulk/Banner is still the good guy here, whether compared to the likes of Roxxon/Agger or not, that might well sustain the point brought up by houndsofluv concerning how Disney/Marvel, as a fundamentally capitalist endeavor, will never portray an anti-capitalist character as entirely heroic and/or justified.

[Omega Alpha]

I mean, Hickman essentially already has. It's infuriating to see him do this with Magneto in this issue so eloquently, while over in Marauders, which essentially should be about global economics, it's playing out more like some base reality tv show/dumb action movie.

B..b...b...ut...Kate is BADASS! Emma is KEWL! Storm is QUEEN! GIRLPOWER!

[H-E-D]

Best issue so far.

[Vegan Daddy]

now this is the discourse i love. generally speaking I cant see a corporation like Disney (and to a lesser though still potent extent, Marvel) allowing any character peddling anti-capitalist rhetoric to be seen as a hero.

This series(and the comic book medium in general) is so under Disney’s radar I doubt they care.

[yogaflame]

Interesting points there. I would bring up Immortal Hulk and his/Banner's war on the more blatantly corrupt aspects of capitalism as represented by Roxxon and Dario Agger, but since it's supposed to be somewhat dubious whether or not Hulk/Banner is still the good guy here, whether compared to the likes of Roxxon/Agger or not, that might well sustain the point brought up by houndsofluv concerning how Disney/Marvel, as a fundamentally capitalist endeavor, will never portray an anti-capitalist character as entirely heroic and/or justified.

That's an interesting take on Hulk. I haven't been reading him, but it is interesting to see that originally, Hulk was very much of an anti-establishment character, almost constantly being hounded by the military and just wanting peace(despite his capacity for destruction). I find his appearances in film went from Ang Lee's strongly anti-military stance, to the Incredible Hulk which showed him teaming up with SHIELD to stop Abomination, to his modern MCU appearances which eschew any serious political/military debate.

I hope that when the X-Men finally make their MCU debut, they aren't completely washed of their anti-establishment leanings(though even though there has been a core of that throughout their post Giant-Sized canon, they also heavily lean into societal norms being comprised of mostly rich white mutants, living in mansions most of the time, using military tech(the SR71 Blackbird), and for the most part, until relatively recently, obeying the standard of human institutions(insofar as not openly upending military/police, government/industrial institutions).)

B..b...b...ut...Kate is BADASS! Emma is KEWL! Storm is QUEEN! GIRLPOWER!

lol, exactly. It's a shame the boys are getting this meaty treatment under Hickman while the Claremazons are left to Duggan's shenanigans. I would love to see Ororo get the Magneto treatment under Hickman and make some power plays on the global stage(which she actually did under Claremont, especially in his X-Treme/XSE era).