Victor Stone: Cyborg Appreciation 2020

[lemonpeace]

Removing his face plate would be like Marvel removing Cyclops' visor. It just won't make sense from a marketing perspective. I think they just need a more appealing overall design.

but the visor isn't always on Scott. Scott Summers' visor is a tool, he wears it when he needs to and it has been updated and tweaked to fit whichever story or style the fits the time because people change and update their tools. If Cyborg can take off or update the faceplate, he should because that's what a person would do. Victor should wear clothes because that's what a person would do. he shouldn't just be a faceplate, there are other ways to get that Cyborg feel without a chunk of metal on his face. put some grooves, keep the red eye and the blue triclops light on his forehead - boom - you get the same aesthetic but less clunky and dated.

[Iconic]

but the visor isn't always on Scott. Scott Summers' visor is a tool, he wears it when he needs to and it has been updated and tweaked to fit whichever story or style the fits the time because people change and update their tools. If Cyborg can take off or update the faceplate, he should because that's what a person would do. Victor should wear clothes because that's what a person would do. he shouldn't just be a faceplate, there are other ways to get that Cyborg feel without a chunk of metal on his face. put some grooves, keep the red eye and the blue triclops light on his forehead - boom - you get the same aesthetic but less clunky and dated.

This sounds about right.

In-story Scott’s visor serves a purpose. What purpose does Vic’s faceplate serve with what his abilities are?

[HandofPrometheus]

*SIGH*



This is from Nightwing #68 but Cyborg is nowhere in sight. Now this brings up the question that if NTT is canon, was Cyborg a member? Priest had him as a member in his latest issue of Deathstroke but this makes things more questionable. When DC fixes the timeline I wonder if they're going to keep him as a member because it contradicts his joining of the JL. I wonder if DC is thinking of this and if not then DC just keeps destroying this character.

[docmidnite]

I don't think anyone is saying not to evolve the design aesthetic. But the marketing aspect of things, that's not nostalgia or anything else, that's about recognizable visuals you can slap on a t-shirt or lunchbox or whatever and still have the IP be instantly recognizable. Robin's pixie shorts weren't the most defining element of his costume, that example is hyperbole. His "R" emblem is, and you'll notice that every single Robin uses it. The detail will shift a little but it's always a yellow "R" on a black circle/oval.

For most A-list properties, their most iconic visual is their emblem. The "S" shield, the Bat, the "W" crest, the Spider, the X-in-the-circle, etc etc. You can put any of those on merchandise and people know who it is. And you notice that stuff doesn't change? Superman will have trunks, no trunks, t-shirts, armor, whatever, but that "S" shield stays on his chest no matter what. For Vic, he doesn't have an emblem that people know. In fact, the idea of Vic having one at all is a relatively new thing. People recognize him by the face plate.

That can be changed, but it's not a quick and easy thing. It'll take time to burn a Cyborg emblem into the public consciousness as deeply as the face plate is. So if you want to change it, you have to keep the plate, introduce a well designed emblem (which I don't think we've had yet), and then start working that emblem into the merchandise and visuals until it's as well known as the face plate and can "take over" the marketing stuff.

Just as an example, I used to have a poster with about 9 DC heroes on it. It's a minimalist piece, everyone is in silhouette except for a few details like masks, capes, etc, and their emblems. And those emblems are largely how you recognize these otherwise detail-less characters. Vic's on there, and he's got the red circle on his chest but what makes him recognizable is the face plate. Give Vic a good emblem, keep it until it's as well known, and you can get rid of the face plate. But until then, you're just taking away the guy's biggest merchandising element and that is not going to help him. As fans of Vic, we should demand that DC update his painfully outdated design, but as fans of Vic we also don't want him to sell even less merchandise because his most defining visual is suddenly gone and nobody recognizes him.

Or DC could take a gamble, switch it up without any transition period, and hope it all just works out magically. And hey, sometimes that does happen. But those aren't odds I'd be willing to bet on.

Great post!

[docmidnite]

but the visor isn't always on Scott. Scott Summers' visor is a tool, he wears it when he needs to and it has been updated and tweaked to fit whichever story or style the fits the time because people change and update their tools. If Cyborg can take off or update the faceplate, he should because that's what a person would do. Victor should wear clothes because that's what a person would do. he shouldn't just be a faceplate, there are other ways to get that Cyborg feel without a chunk of metal on his face. put some grooves, keep the red eye and the blue triclops light on his forehead - boom - you get the same aesthetic but less clunky and dated.

Exactly. He wore some sweet jumpsuits in Doom Patrol!

[HandofPrometheus]

For those up on the current video games...just look at Cyberpunk 2077. A whole cybernetic character that looks cool as could be. Cybernetic upgrades are sought after. It’s a positive take on cybernetics as a whole. One of the most anticipated games of 2020.

And yet...DC can’t find the energy to put in to the character. They need to beg David Walker to come back to this character and continue the direction he was headed.

Agreed! I came across the wallpapers and Cyborg should start looking like this!





Maybe you can squeeze in a full red cyber eye as his defining trait and have blue cyber lines around it. Idk, but it's high time to get rid of the full robot body and face plate.

I wouldn't mind if he even shown no cybernetics and start looking human but displayed full Cyborg like qualities during fights like the Androids in DBZ

[Ascended]

I mean, I'm as super hyped for Cyberpunk 2077 as the next guy, but those images in particular just scream "Image in the 90's" to me.

Update Vic's visuals yes, but we need more of a sleek "Steve Jobs" kind of design sensibility and less "I came from a horrible post apocalyptic future like half the X-Men did."

[Frontier]

but the visor isn't always on Scott. Scott Summers' visor is a tool, he wears it when he needs to and it has been updated and tweaked to fit whichever story or style the fits the time because people change and update their tools. If Cyborg can take off or update the faceplate, he should because that's what a person would do. Victor should wear clothes because that's what a person would do. he shouldn't just be a faceplate, there are other ways to get that Cyborg feel without a chunk of metal on his face. put some grooves, keep the red eye and the blue triclops light on his forehead - boom - you get the same aesthetic but less clunky and dated.

I get what you're going for, but I don't think Cyclops' visor is quite the right comparison since his visor...really hasn't changed that much over the years. At best they give it a different color, and there was that period where it was a giant x, but otherwise it's usually the same thing over his eyes unless he's wearing those ruby-quarts sunglasses.

This sounds about right.

In-story Scott’s visor serves a purpose. What purpose does Vic’s faceplate serve with what his abilities are?

In-story the faceplate shows how pervasive the technological transformation was on his body.

*SIGH*



This is from Nightwing #68 but Cyborg is nowhere in sight. Now this brings up the question that if NTT is canon, was Cyborg a member? Priest had him as a member in his latest issue of Deathstroke but this makes things more questionable. When DC fixes the timeline I wonder if they're going to keep him as a member because it contradicts his joining of the JL. I wonder if DC is thinking of this and if not then DC just keeps destroying this character.

They can include the New Teen Titans and Dick proposing to Oracle but they can't reference Cyborg as having ever been a Titans member?

This is just ridiculous.

[Iconic]

In-story the faceplate shows how pervasive the technological transformation was on his body.

The problem is that he’s changed since the 80’s. He’s got alien nanotechnology in him now and has the ability to change his body and his appearance. The pervasiveness of his transformation is rendered irrelevant within this new context.

[Restingvoice]

*SIGH*



This is from Nightwing #68 but Cyborg is nowhere in sight. Now this brings up the question that if NTT is canon, was Cyborg a member? Priest had him as a member in his latest issue of Deathstroke but this makes things more questionable. When DC fixes the timeline I wonder if they're going to keep him as a member because it contradicts his joining of the JL. I wonder if DC is thinking of this and if not then DC just keeps destroying this character.

Jurgens/Moore has gotten flashback facts wrong before by saying Dick Grayson's parents were shot instead of falling, and the new DC timeline has expanded the time between NTT and New 52 Justice League so I'd wait.

[Frontier]

The problem is that he’s changed since the 80’s. He’s got alien nanotechnology in him now and has the ability to change his body and his appearance. The pervasiveness of his transformation is rendered irrelevant within this new context.

Considering this is Victor we're talking about, he might want to have a public reminder of his Cyborg nature, at least as a hero.

The whole point of his character arc is embracing that aspect of himself.

[Digifiend]

*SIGH*



This is from Nightwing #68 but Cyborg is nowhere in sight. Now this brings up the question that if NTT is canon, was Cyborg a member? Priest had him as a member in his latest issue of Deathstroke but this makes things more questionable. When DC fixes the timeline I wonder if they're going to keep him as a member because it contradicts his joining of the JL. I wonder if DC is thinking of this and if not then DC just keeps destroying this character.

That's easy to fix. Either he took damage thanks to Eclipso in the last pre-Flashpoint JLA arc (he was among the Eclipsed heroes originally), or he participated in the final Teen Titans battle against Superboy Prime and got wrecked there. Either way, what was originally his origin at the start of New 52 JL would now be him getting repaired and upgraded.

[Iconic]

Considering this is Victor we're talking about, he might want to have a public reminder of his Cyborg nature, at least as a hero.

The whole point of his character arc is embracing that aspect of himself.

Sincere question. Don’t want to come off argumentative: 1) Why? 2) How long is this character supposed to be embracing what he is?

He’s been around for quite sometime and that seems to be the only angle these writers can come up with and it’s draining to the readers. Too many top flight characters have had tragic origins and have been able to move beyond them. Vic has amazing abilities. At what point can he be expected to enjoy them? (Referring to comic book version)

[docmidnite]

Sincere question. Don’t want to come off argumentative: 1) Why? 2) How long is this character supposed to be embracing what he is?

He’s been around for quite sometime and that seems to be the only angle these writers can come up with and it’s draining to the readers. Too many top flight characters have had tragic origins and have been able to move beyond them. Vic has amazing abilities. At what point can he be expected to enjoy them? (Referring to comic book version)

Batman hasn’t moved on. That’s the whole point of his character. Also, speaking as a disabled person who lost most of my left arm in a bad accident 24 years ago, it’s hard to move on from something so traumatic. Every time I put on my prosthetic arm I’m reminded of my accident and that’s even with the advancements in prosthetics since then. So I imagine it’s the same for Vic and is the reason why I relate to him so much.

[Iconic]

Asked in a better way...

How long is Cyborg supposed to be embracing how his tragic accident altered him into a major hero with tech-god abilities that also allow him to alter his appearance?

At some point it has to be awesome in the same vein as Flash with his speed, Superman with his plethora of powers, Batman and his wealth and family, etc. These characters eventually reach a level of peace with their predicament.