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  1. #136
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    My thoughts are that Cyborg doesn't really work that well as his own leading character in the DCU. Granted, he wasn't designed to. He was supposed to be a man-monster type on a team. Based on that, I think he was an odd character to "promote", especially considering that the demand wasn't there. I'm sure the main driving reason behind it was racially motivated, but DC didn't realize you can't just put a black guy somewhere as if he was a prop and just expect everything to be okay. When you put Cyborg in the Justice League, what that will do is highlight all manner of deficiencies with him and do more harm than good, because he WILL be compared to his peers. If Cyborg is to work as his own major character in the DCU, he would need to be changed to work better in that capacity, and I think the design is at the top of the list of things that would need to be addressed.

  2. #137
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    Sincere question. Donít want to come off argumentative: 1) Why? 2) How long is this character supposed to be embracing what he is?

    Heís been around for quite sometime and that seems to be the only angle these writers can come up with and itís draining to the readers. Too many top flight characters have had tragic origins and have been able to move beyond them. Vic has amazing abilities. At what point can he be expected to enjoy them? (Referring to comic book version)
    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    Asked in a better way...

    How long is Cyborg supposed to be embracing how his tragic accident altered him into a major hero with tech-god abilities that also allow him to alter his appearance?

    At some point it has to be awesome in the same vein as Flash with his speed, Superman with his plethora of powers, Batman and his wealth and family, etc. These characters eventually reach a level of peace with their predicament.
    Does he not enjoy them now? I mean, he moved past it in the Wolfman run for a good period of time, it hasn't come up recently as far as I know, he's gotten a few feats.

    I also think that's completely separate issue from the faceplate.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    My thoughts are that Cyborg doesn't really work that well as his own leading character in the DCU. Granted, he wasn't designed to. He was supposed to be a man-monster type on a team. Based on that, I think he was an odd character to "promote", especially considering that the demand wasn't there. I'm sure the main driving reason behind it was racially motivated, but DC didn't realize you can't just put a black guy somewhere as if he was a prop and just expect everything to be okay. When you put Cyborg in the Justice League, what that will do is highlight all manner of deficiencies with him and do more harm than good, because he WILL be compared to his peers. If Cyborg is to work as his own major character in the DCU, he would need to be changed to work better in that capacity, and I think the design is at the top of the list of things that would need to be addressed.
    They promoted Cyborg without proper build up, there should've been an arc in TT/Titans about him proving himself to the JL and getting promoted. That being said, DC's blatant refusal to give him a proper supporting cast and rogue gallery did not help things at all. They also dropped the ball by having him not overcome the man-monster debate. Wolfman moved him beyond that, the cartoons moved him beyond that but the comics haven't.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Does he not enjoy them now? I mean, he moved past it in the Wolfman run for a good period of time, it hasn't come up recently as far as I know, he's gotten a few feats.

    I also think that's completely separate issue from the faceplate.
    With Vic currently Darkseid's mind slave its hard to know what he enjoys now.

  5. #140
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Does he not enjoy them now? I mean, he moved past it in the Wolfman run for a good period of time, it hasn't come up recently as far as I know, he's gotten a few feats.

    I also think that's completely separate issue from the faceplate.
    from what I can think off the top of my head, we don't see him enjoying being Cyborg often if at all. more often than not we see him actively dismayed with the fact that he is the way he is or pretty indifferent and just doing what he can do with what he has. If there are moments he's enjoying being Cyborg they're few and far between, and are disproportionally outweighed by the self-loathing. I mean the Wolfman stuff was a long time ago, it's not as if he didn't have issues with being a Cyborg between then and N52, and we've had the angsty back and forth for nearly a decade now. while his design and his characterization are separate issues, one definitely influences the other.
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  6. #141
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    Maybe they will move Cyborg to Doom Patrol for synergy.

  7. #142
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Maybe they will move Cyborg to Doom Patrol for synergy.
    I'm gonna be real, he'd probably be treated better over there than in the main DC universe. he'd definitely get humiliated and mutilated less.
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  8. #143
    Fantastic Member docmidnite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    and I can understand that but at the end if the day, you're a human being and if you have the tools available you would want to attain a sense if normalcy. yes, nothing will ever replace your arm but you know you are more than just your arm, and I don't think if you had a new arm you would resent it because it makes you "less than human"; especially if it behaves like your arm and has extra amenities.

    when Victor's story, in a world full of idealized individuals, is limited to him lamenting over and then getting over "being less than a man" because of what happened to him, in perpetuity, at a point it stops feeling like an uplifting message and it starts feeling like the message IS that he's less than man, ya know what I'm saying? Vic doesn't HAVE to look like a metal monstrosity, especially if his prosthetics are beyond bleeding edge, and in our day in age it's getting harder and harder to reconcile Victor's angst because we know how technology works and evolves. we went from slow ass computers that fill rooms to supercomputers in our pockets.

    if you have to resources to look normal, could wear clothes, could do things MORE than humanly possible, to simply at least appear to have a sense of normalcy, any person would use that; so why shouldn't Vic?
    Iím not disagreeing with you, itís just that, unlike me, thereís recognizablity and marketing issues at play here with Cyborg.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    They promoted Cyborg without proper build up, there should've been an arc in TT/Titans about him proving himself to the JL and getting promoted. That being said, DC's blatant refusal to give him a proper supporting cast and rogue gallery did not help things at all. They also dropped the ball by having him not overcome the man-monster debate. Wolfman moved him beyond that, the cartoons moved him beyond that but the comics haven't.


    You guys might not know but this is an appreciation thread, one of the key rules for the appreciation thread is to not talk negatively about different versions of a character. If you like the original way of Cyborg being brought into the JL from being a Teen Titans, that's fine. But this isn't the thread to discount Cyborg originally being a founding member of the JLA.




    DC Forum Appreciation Thread rules:

    1) No negative comments about the honoree of this thread. It's an appreciation thread, not a non-appreciation one.

    2) No negative discussion about any competitors of the honoree of this thread (i.e. John Stewart in the Hal Jordan thread). No ifs, ands, or buts. Find another non-appreciation thread to do that, just not here.

    3) No negative comments about other versions of the character. For example, if you like the DCU version of Cyborg, but hate the DCnU version (or visa versa), just appreciate the earlier version and keep your comments about the latter to yourself.
    Last edited by leo619; 01-15-2020 at 02:42 PM.

  10. #145
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    from what I can think off the top of my head, we don't see him enjoying being Cyborg often if at all. more often than not we see him actively dismayed with the fact that he is the way he is or pretty indifferent and just doing what he can do with what he has. If there are moments he's enjoying being Cyborg they're few and far between, and are disproportionally outweighed by the self-loathing. I mean the Wolfman stuff was a long time ago, it's not as if he didn't have issues with being a Cyborg between then and N52, and we've had the angsty back and forth for nearly a decade now. while his design and his characterization are separate issues, one definitely influences the other.
    He's angsted again but, again, he always gets over it.

    I haven't seen any major man or machine angsting in JLO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    Maybe they will move Cyborg to Doom Patrol for synergy.
    Not like he's doing much on the League at this point.

  11. #146
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    Considering how Cyborg, by himself, is not a strong brand at all, and that DC has made some attempt for the character to have his own brand, to negative results, I think it's worth experimenting with trying something else with his appearance.
    You've said you're not a fan of the character, naturally you'd like something different.

    The only thing the comics have to do is what larger media has already done. All the pieces are there, and have been. Making Vic a viable IP is not the difficult task some think it is; we already have everything needed. The comics just have to take five gods damn minutes to put the puzzle together and you've got a hero for the 21st century.

    As for Vic being more mopey in recent years, I think that's true. At least during the New52, I feel like he got away from that (again) once we got around Rebirth. I'm not sure how much of that is just DC recycling the same themes and stories like they do with everybody or how much was the fact that the New52 de-aged everyone and Vic was, once again, dealing with the very fresh trauma of his accident.
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  12. #147
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Removing his face plate would be like Marvel removing Cyclops' visor. It just won't make sense from a marketing perspective. I think they just need a more appealing overall design.
    Naw, Walker had it spot on. It's silly looking that on a team with human looking heroes that the one brotha on the team gotta cover up. Now to address the science of this, how does a highly advanced Cyborg with continuous upgrading technology just look the same for such an extended amount of time. Cyborg's upgrade that had him growing super strong, durable, synthetic flesh was excellent and sorely needed. By definition he's still every bit the man machine dichotomy, while showing his evolution to the perfect union of both. Let his feats define his power not his face.

  13. #148
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Did anyone catch the Cyborg reference in the CW Crisis finale? In the amazing moment where Ezra Miller’s Flash meets Grant Gustin’s Flash, as Ezra is fading from that earth he says “I told Victor this was possible.”

    Many years ago there were rumors that Cyborg was going to play a role in the Flash movie. Maybe there’s still hope for Ray Fisher’s Cyborg now that Ezra’s Flash movie is seemingly back on track.

  14. #149
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Fisher was one of the few highlights of JL. I'd love to see what he could do with the role if he had quality people behind him. Which is still my biggest concern about DC films; they only seem to do well when WB ignores them and lets the cast and crew do their jobs. WB sticks their fingers in to "fix" a movie and it goes to sh*t.

    Ah hell, who am I kidding? I havent seen a DC movie in theaters since JL but I'd buy two extra tickets for Vic just to show some love.
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  15. #150
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I'm in favor of having a regular face in when he's off duty and a face plate when he suits up. I'm not a fan of the gear logo, I think the plate works better. I do understand the argument for updating his design though.

    What I think they really need to work before anything is his supporting cast and rogues gallery. Show us more sides to Conrad, Xenephon and Sarah, use the Star labs connection to expand his relationships with other characters. Hell bring Cisco/Vibe over since DC doesn't want to use him anymore.
    Last edited by 9th.; 01-16-2020 at 10:06 AM.
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