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  1. #511
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    As for New God characters I'd revamp Forager since he recently had a showing in YJ or the Forever People. Not sure what direction I'd go for that type of story though. I haven't thought of a creative way for Vic to explore that side of him yet. I have added Deesad to his rogues gallery since he feeds of misery.
    ooouu that's a clever meta idea, Desaad can act as a commentary on DC's obsession with mining Cyborg's misery at being himself; I love it! on the opposite end, I think linking Cyborg and Starfire could be a good may for him to take on a body positive angle and learning to love yourself. I felt Cyborg and Starfire had some great chemistry in the first few issue of JL: Odyssey, I wouldn't mind them linking up romantically. just like that, we have two legitimate and compelling connections to the cosmic landscape ripe with story potential without turning him into a mindless drone.

    also like always, give that boy some pants. I'm gonna always say it till DC let's my boy wear clothes.
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  2. #512
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    It's crazy, I never even thought about Cyborg basically being naked all the time until y'all brought it up.
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  3. #513
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    It's crazy, I never even thought about Cyborg basically being naked all the time until y'all brought it up.
    it didn't hit me until they released the promo art for Justice League Odyssey and I saw him with clothes. then i was like "he looks good in this desig- wait a minute, has this man's been naked since 2011?!" haven't been able to shake it since. the Son of Baldwin article from a while back about his masculinity is what really put into perspective the fact that, as a cyborg, when we see the metal parts of Vic it's still his actual body and that deserves to be treated with dignity; he deserves to be treated with diginity.
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  4. #514
    Incredible Member Jovan2013's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    ooouu that's a clever meta idea, Desaad can act as a commentary on DC's obsession with mining Cyborg's misery at being himself; I love it! on the opposite end, I think linking Cyborg and Starfire could be a good may for him to take on a body positive angle and learning to love yourself. I felt Cyborg and Starfire had some great chemistry in the first few issue of JL: Odyssey, I wouldn't mind them linking up romantically. just like that, we have two legitimate and compelling connections to the cosmic landscape ripe with story potential without turning him into a mindless drone.

    also like always, give that boy some pants. I'm gonna always say it till DC let's my boy wear clothes.
    After reading Justice League Odyssey, I would not mind a Cyborg and Starfire romantic relationship. IIRC I don't think he is in an active relationship with Sarah or anyone, and I don't think Starfire is going to pursue a relationship with Nightwing again for the time being.

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I don't mind Detroit as Vic's city but it feels pretty.....niche. Like, yes of course the bionic man lives in Detroit because gears and machines and cars and stuff. It's not a *bad* idea or anything, and there's a lot of history and current issues there that you could mine for story ideas (not necessarily social commentary, just inspiration). But it's just so on the nose, yknow? I had the same problem with all of Vic's villains being tech based. Yeah, that's Vic's thing and his villains should reflect that, but *every* bad guy? Way too much. Where was the variety?

    I like the idea of Vic living in Jump City. The comic version of Cyborg could do with a little fun and humor and living in the cartoon's city might help writers keep in mind that Vic has more emotional range than "mopey-sad-angry-self loathing." And this would give writers the chance to build the city around Vic, to give it its own mythos and attractions, problems and high points, etc.

    As for supporting cast, I think you pretty much *have* to run with Silas, Sarah, and Beast Boy. Even if Gar and Vic are no longer on the same team, they've got one of the best bromances in comics and Vic's character is less than he should be without that friendship. These three are who I see as the core of Vic's supporting cast; his Lois/Jimmy/Perry.

    Honestly I think the biggest question isn't necessarily who is in the book, but the "why" and "where" of it. Does Vic work primarily with STAR Labs, helping them with their research and providing security when things go wrong? Is he a sanctioned officer of the law, ala Flashpoint? Is he traveling the cosmic highways as a demigod of New Genesis? Figure that out and the rest falls in place easily.
    Cyborg should be all of the above and a lead his own team.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    As for New God characters I'd revamp Forager since he recently had a showing in YJ or the Forever People. Not sure what direction I'd go for that type of story though. I haven't thought of a creative way for Vic to explore that side of him yet. I have added Deesad to his rogues gallery since he feeds of misery.
    Of all the New Gods, I think Grail would be the best one to add to Cyborg's rogue gallery.

  7. #517
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Of all the New Gods, I think Grail would be the best one to add to Cyborg's rogue gallery.
    why not both? Desaad is a Darkseid fanatic right? I don't think it would be much of a narrative stretch to port him over to being a follower of the daughter of Darkseid. then at that point, aim her at Vic. However, I feel Grail is super heavily a Wonder Woman character, not sure what reason she would have to come at Vic.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 09-24-2020 at 07:48 AM.
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  8. #518
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    It seemed to me that Joshua Williamson was heading Cyborg and Starfire toward a romantic relationship in Justice League Odyssey, but his run was cut short and the next writer had totally, TOTALLY different plans in mind for the characters.

    Or I could have been reading too much into things *shrug*. You never really know, especially with these black male characters. They often wind up not getting anywhere, even when it seems like they could and perhaps even should, and next thing you know, the story is just over. Sort of like Black Lightning and Katana in that recent Outsiders book.

  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    why not both? Desaad is a Darkseid fanatic right? I don't think it would be much of a narrative stretch to port him over to being a follower of the daughter of Darkseid. then at that point, aim her at Vic. However, I feel Grail is super heavily a Wonder Woman character, not sure what reason she would have to come at Vic.
    Writers WISH Grail was a Wonder Woman character and a bigger deal, but she's not really a member of WW rogue gallery...or anyone else's.

    Vic has a Mother Box which is reason enough for Grail or any of Darkseid's lackeys to come after him.

  10. #520
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Writers WISH Grail was a Wonder Woman character and a bigger deal, but she's not really a member of WW rogue gallery...or anyone else's.

    Vic has a Mother Box which is reason enough for Grail or any of Darkseid's lackeys to come after him.
    uhmmm, is it really a wish xonsidering her origin is directly link to Themyscira and the Amazons? she's kinda objectively a Wonder Woman character as much as she's a New Gods character, there's just no way around that.

    I guess the mother box is reason enough, but it's not exactly a compelling reason. I mean, they very well could build off that simple premise depending on how competent the writer who writers it is. Although, Cyborg is/was in a major conflict with Darkseid, they could probably springboard off that; like maybe Grail hears about Darkseid declaring Cyborg a New God and goes after him for his god power like she did with Zeus and his kids in Wonder Woman but this time it's for herself. it would somewhat elevate and solidify Cyborg not just as a New God but as a straight up godly entity.
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  11. #521
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    I'd rather they revamp Grayven than bring in Grail, whose Amazonian connections I think entrench her in the Wonder Woman mythos. Grayven is a long-lost son of Darkseid and I think you could do a lot more for Cy to "own" the character, especially since unlike Grail he's an actual intergalactic conqueror. Though I'd like him to be a kind of intergalactic crime lord of sorts with Intergang and warprofiteering being his thing.

    Another obscure New God villain for Vic could be Mantis. Pre-New 52 he was a member of the Bugs, an insectoid species located on New Genesis that were created by the New Gods as bioweapons against Apokolips. They are a subservient people to the New Gods and systemically exterminated by them to prevent overpopulation. Mantis survived one of these genocides and ends up joining Darkseid.

    I like the idea of him being a radical revolutionary, a rogue general of Apokolips looking for planets to enslave and terraform so he can one day shepherd his people from the oppression of the New Gods. He's the ultimate representation of Supertown's hypocrisy and I could see him as a dark mirror of sorts to Vic. Cyborg can control machines, Mantis can control life, they're both trying to be champions of their peoples and you can play into that duality.

  12. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Max View Post
    It seemed to me that Joshua Williamson was heading Cyborg and Starfire toward a romantic relationship in Justice League Odyssey, but his run was cut short and the next writer had totally, TOTALLY different plans in mind for the characters.

    Or I could have been reading too much into things *shrug*. You never really know, especially with these black male characters. They often wind up not getting anywhere, even when it seems like they could and perhaps even should, and next thing you know, the story is just over. Sort of like Black Lightning and Katana in that recent Outsiders book.
    I think the issue with Cy and Star is that it'd never last. I don't trust DC (especially Titans) writers not to do what they usually do and write cheap drama. Inevitably there'd be a love triangle between them and Dick and there's no conceivable way Cy comes out on the winning side of that. He's black, less popular, and wouldn't have the same nostalgic relationship that Star and Dick have with fans. Maybe some subtextual romance would be fine, but at the end of the day Star is Dick's love interest, whether she's with him or not.

    But I agree it has potential. Cy and Star are both cosmic, have the established familiarity with his Titans history back, and if Cy gets more of his cartoon personality, could be very fun.

  13. #523
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    I'm all for Cyborg and Starfire together. I think it could actually work too.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I think the issue with Cy and Star is that it'd never last. I don't trust DC (especially Titans) writers not to do what they usually do and write cheap drama. Inevitably there'd be a love triangle between them and Dick and there's no conceivable way Cy comes out on the winning side of that. He's black, less popular, and wouldn't have the same nostalgic relationship that Star and Dick have with fans. Maybe some subtextual romance would be fine, but at the end of the day Star is Dick's love interest, whether she's with him or not.

    But I agree it has potential. Cy and Star are both cosmic, have the established familiarity with his Titans history back, and if Cy gets more of his cartoon personality, could be very fun.
    Personally, it's nothing I have too much of an opinion on one way or the other, I just thought the story in Justice League Odyssey was headed in that direction until the guy writing it suddenly left. Looking at the possibility of it, though...

    I don't think Starfire or Cyborg should be beholden to Dick Grayson. Dick Grayson who is usually off doing his own thing apart from these characters these days, it seems to me. I actually think it would be a good thing if fans were confronted with the idea that these characters don't need to be set up to facilitate a white male hero. Not necessarily to piss people off, but to work toward putting that paradigm to sleep, or rather present a reasonable alternative. It may have been that way in 1980, but it's literally 40 years later now, and Starfire is her own character allowed to have her own love interests apart from Dick Grayson, just like Dick Grayson has love interests apart from Starfire.


    But I get what you're saying. What should happen isn't necessarily the likely thing to happen, and a relationship between Starfire and Cyborg could potentially create a messy situation where Cyborg comes out on the losing side, thus potentially further diminishing his character in a way. What you're saying is reasonable, but it's also unfortunate that concerns like that even exist, and I'm not sure if they're worth giving credibility, because it just perpetuates a less than ideal situation.
    Last edited by Hi-Max; 09-24-2020 at 11:56 AM.

  15. #525
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind Vic and Star getting together, old friends getting feelings for each other isn't anything new so I support it. I liked the chemistry they had in JLO. As others have mentioned I don't want Cy involved in any CW style triangle drama or any rabid Dick/Kori fans coming for Vic.
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