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  1. #556
    Resident Lurker Cyborguy's Avatar
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    I never get tired of seeing Vic's classic design.

    Now, I hope they will finally age Beast Boy and Raven up again...

  2. #557
    Fantastic Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I know it's been stated plenty of times, but DC really has drop the ball with Vic. At the time I liked that they tried to raise his profile with him being a "founding" member of the Justice League, but now I can see that it was a mistake. If they wanted to have a black guy on the team for diversity sake, they should have used Black Lightning instead. Or used Doctor Mist or Bloodwynd, just to have a magic user on the team that could have been their teleporter.

    The reason why my stance has changed is because he has dropped back down in status. He wasn't in the most recent major JL storyline from Snyder. And John Stewart has retaken the "token" black person spot along with the Green Lantern spot. Havens forbid that the Justice League could have two black men and Latina Hawkgirl on the team at the same time.

    Now it's my fault that I haven't read JL: odyssey but after the first five issues, I simply lost interest. So I don't know what he's up to. What really irked my about his stance in DC was the removal from the Titans and all the history friendships he had there. Like, who's his friend on the Justice League? The Trinity is still a thing. Hal and Barry are still a thing. They grew a weird relationship with J'onn and Kendra. I guess Vic was closest with Shazam but was he really?

    After seeing the preview to Nightwing 75 with Donna showing Dick a picture of the founding members of the Teen Titans along with the New TT minus Vic really hit me the wrong way. Those were his friends -- his family and they strip him of that for a shot-sighted advancement DC couldn't or wouldn't support. SO now that Odyssey is cancelled and DC is too busy promoted this future storyline, where is Victor now (and no, I don't count that Dark Metal stuff)?

  3. #558
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    I think that was absolutely a huge problem. His connections with the Teen Titans were so important to the character, so just dropping all of that hurt him a great deal. I still think the best route would've been to have Cyborg participate in the Justice League's first battle with Darkseid, then leave to form the Teen Titans during the 5 year time skip after the first Johns/Lee arc, and then return to the League as an adult in the present day.

  4. #559
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I keep saying do a mini-series about the life and upgrade of cyborg just to bridge the gap between his time as a titan and then his time as a league member, it can be as in and out of canon as it wants.

    Start with the accident, then him first joining the titans, him accepting himself as who he is, maybe the Geoff Johns era to acknowledge the adult teaching the next generation, he helps fight Darkseid and gets massive upgrade, joins Justice League and perhaps acknowledge if he were to so choose he could look human but he is actually comfortable with who he is, like the human self is just for his loved ones. I think you need to acknowledge a motherbox upgrade when he fights Darkseid because as of late Vic is a bit more powerful then when he started out.
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  5. #560
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    The infuriating part is that there was no need to eliminate his backstory with the titans before Cyborg joins the justice league. Keeping in place if anything just gives him the experience he needs to be respected as a full leaguer, and makes it easier for the league to coordinate with the titans whenever something really big is needed.

    Just say that Cyborg became too important to be left unchecked by the league once his already Cyborg body became bonded with a motherbox. You don't lose anything, you just go from the league treating him as a newbie with convenient powers, to an experienced hero who doesn't quite feel at home with the league's methods, and perhaps can teach them a thing or two while learning a lot himself.

    And personally I don't think being a titan means that you are in any way inferior to a leaguer.

  6. #561
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    As much as I hated the loss of his Titans history and want it back in place, in the New52 origin (pre-5 year jump) Vic wasn't that much less experienced than most of the League. Clark had been around for 6-12 months, Bruce roughly as long, and everyone else were rookies with at most 6 months of experience to their names. Vic's "lack of experience" was mostly in the eyes of fans, not the actual narrative. And it was a crap story from Johns, probably one of his absolute worst ever, and he did Vic no favors at all....but Vic wasn't really any less experienced or deserving than Barry or Hal in the grand scheme of things, and Darkseid's invasion was also the first mission Diana and Arthur had been on (until Johns introduced the idea of Arthur's adventures with the Others anyway).

    But don't let that observation make y'all think that I wouldn't put Vic's Titans history back in place the second I gained the authority at DC to do so. Or, well, I guess that's already happened, looking at pages from Justice League. I'm just saying that, within the framework of the New52 history, Vic was just as justified as anyone else for League membership.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-19-2020 at 02:29 PM.
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  7. #562
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    The irony is that Victor's original backstory actually lends itself to a solo series better than his New 52 one. It doesn't rely on any specific ties to other DC franchises and even has an unresolved conflict with the creature that attacked Victor and killed his mother.

  8. #563
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    iunno, I like the current origin with the motherbox. I don't think he needs to have his old origin and then upgrade into motherbox tech; something about that progression makes him feel less human to me. I would rather he keep his League origin but just sandwich his history with the Titans between his origin and his time as a full time Leaguer. I like the idea of having the League be the ones to put him on the titans so they can keep an eye on him while he figured out his situation. that's effectively his origin on the Young Justice show, he was just on the team because they needed to figure him out, so it could work.
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  9. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborguy View Post
    I never get tired of seeing Vic's classic design.

    Now, I hope they will finally age Beast Boy and Raven up again...
    His classic design somehow looks more up to date then his modern designs. Seriously why does everyone make him bulky? That's like the opposite of actually technology.

  10. #565
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Because the New 52, despite claims of modernizing the heroes, was clearly heavily inspired by the aesthetics of 90s comics.

  11. #566
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Now, I hope they will finally age Beast Boy and Raven up again...
    Seriously, the idea of them as full-fledged adults - the kind that are 22+ and can't in any sense be regarded as "kids" would be great. Of course, then you have to discuss what personalities they should have.

    iunno, I like the current origin with the motherbox. I don't think he needs to have his old origin and then upgrade into motherbox tech; something about that progression makes him feel less human to me. I would rather he keep his League origin but just sandwich his history with the Titans between his origin and his time as a full time Leaguer. I like the idea of having the League be the ones to put him on the titans so they can keep an eye on him while he figured out his situation. that's effectively his origin on the Young Justice show, he was just on the team because they needed to figure him out, so it could work.
    That just doesn't work for me for how very much it diminishes the Titans (which has been an issue for DC for ages now). People shouldn't "graduate" from Titans to League - it's not supposed to hierarchical. And worse yet, is the JL "putting" him there - they should have absolutely no authority or ability to place anyone on that team. It's not their team, and they are not the boss of the Titans - or shouldn't be. That's YJ, definitely not the Titans. Plus, it's illogical - they can keep a much closer eye on him on their own team than on another.

  12. #567
    Resident Lurker Cyborguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    His classic design somehow looks more up to date then his modern designs. Seriously why does everyone make him bulky? That's like the opposite of actually technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Because the New 52, despite claims of modernizing the heroes, was clearly heavily inspired by the aesthetics of 90s comics.

    Yup. It doesn't help being nearly overdesigned so theres very little consistency between artists.

    When I saw the PS5 design for the for time time, I'm not lying when I say it reminded me of Vic's DCYou look. Everything from the colors to the sleekness of the design.

  13. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockingjustice View Post
    His classic design somehow looks more up to date then his modern designs. Seriously why does everyone make him bulky? That's like the opposite of actually technology.
    Aside from Perez's design, the only other one that actually looked modern to me was the one from the animated series. Everything else just looks clunky and makes him look ineffective.

  14. #569
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Seriously, the idea of them as full-fledged adults - the kind that are 22+ and can't in any sense be regarded as "kids" would be great. Of course, then you have to discuss what personalities they should have.

    That just doesn't work for me for how very much it diminishes the Titans (which has been an issue for DC for ages now). People shouldn't "graduate" from Titans to League - it's not supposed to hierarchical. And worse yet, is the JL "putting" him there - they should have absolutely no authority or ability to place anyone on that team. It's not their team, and they are not the boss of the Titans - or shouldn't be. That's YJ, definitely not the Titans. Plus, it's illogical - they can keep a much closer eye on him on their own team than on another.
    it's more illogical to put someone with no control of their powers on a team that has to handle the most important and dangerous mission in the universe. the Teen Titans, the Titans, they have two functions; a house for sidekicks and a proving ground for young heroes. Cyborg isn't a legacy so only narrative reason why he needs to be on any Titan team would be to prove himself with the other young heroes. if we take that away, there really isn't a reason to force him back on that team when he and his peers have moved passed the need to prove themselves. no matter how you slice it, Titans are not the same level of institution as the Justice League, and there is nothing wrong with that nor is there anything wrong with them graduating out of if or having dual membership. them not being the same level as the League doesn't make them "diminished" because they were never equal to or superior to the Justice League. it's not like the League hasn't recommended or given members over to the Teen Titans or the Titans in the pass, and again, there isn't anything wrong with the League saying "hey, were are trusting you with this person" and the team going "we accept that responsibility". iunno man, it just feels like an arbitrary limitation being subscribed to them that doesn't really need to be made a big deal about.
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  15. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The irony is that Victor's original backstory actually lends itself to a solo series better than his New 52 one. It doesn't rely on any specific ties to other DC franchises and even has an unresolved conflict with the creature that attacked Victor and killed his mother.
    This is very much true and why I think I'd have no issue saying he was already a cyborg before integrating the Mother Box and eventually joining the League. Tie that creature into the Digital Universe and you got some new story possibilities that hopefully aren't too contingent on the New Gods mythos.

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