Victor Stone: Cyborg Appreciation 2020

[king81992]

I don't think the cartoon personality would work unless they redesigned the comic version to look more like the cartoon.

Although, honestly, I doubt anyone would complain even if it meant less "diversity."

Comic Jinx wouldn't need a major redisign, just give her a pink wig and personality.

[Vampire Savior]

I don't think the cartoon personality would work unless they redesigned the comic version to look more like the cartoon.

Although, honestly, I doubt anyone would complain even if it meant less "diversity."

I confess I don't have any interest in the bald woman. It doesn't have to do with diversity, I just don't find that nearly as inspired a design. I understand how people can be averse to white-washing, but I do not believe Jinx has been a prominent enough character in DC comics where it would reasonably matter. Some people might be outraged because they're looking for something to be outraged about, but *shrug* oh well.

I would not personally change the race of the pink haired Jinx because I would not throw a curve ball at people who would expect her to be literally pale from seeing her on the WAAAAAY more popular cartoons. I would simply take the character from the toons, as people know her, and put her in the comics, based upon that being the by far more popular version that fans from the cartoons would expect.

[Robotman]

I’ve always thought Jinx could be Vic’s Catwoman-like romance. The one time villain turned love interest. Plus I really liked how TTG had the magic vs tech odd couple thing. It would be cool if they kept her ethnicity but I much prefer the pink haired goth girl to the bald look.

[HandofPrometheus]

Just give comic Jinx the same personality as her cartoon counterpart. If we're being honest, Jinx and her buddies have been around for 30 + years in the comics and writers haven't given them actual personalities (or the bare minimum of characterization if we're being generous).

I think that would be the easiest and best way to do it. If anything just give the comic version her the animated cat like eyes, the purple hair and the personality.

[Agent Z]

I confess I don't have any interest in the bald woman. It doesn't have to do with diversity, I just don't find that nearly as inspired a design. I understand how people can be averse to white-washing, but I do not believe Jinx has been a prominent enough character in DC comics where it would reasonably matter. Some people might be outraged because they're looking for something to be outraged about, but *shrug* oh well.

I would not personally change the race of the pink haired Jinx because I would not throw a curve ball at people who would expect her to be literally pale from seeing her on the WAAAAAY more popular cartoons. I would simply take the character from the toons, as people know her, and put her in the comics, based upon that being the by far more popular version that fans from the cartoons would expect.

Making Jinx an Indian woman as she was originally depicted wouldn't be a race change. I find this pretty funny coming from someone who has frequently complained about altering white characters into minorities, even when those changes were positively recieved.

[Vampire Savior]

Making Jinx an Indian woman as she was originally depicted wouldn't be a race change. I find this pretty funny coming from someone who has frequently complained about altering white characters into minorities, even when those changes were positively recieved.

Here we go talking about the person making the point instead of the actual point being made.

This isn't about diversity to me. It's about not having conflicting versions of characters, not confusing people with those conflicting versions, and using the best versions of the characters. I just did a quick google image search for "Teen Titans Jinx fan art", and about 99.9999% of the images that popped up was of Jinx from the Teen Titans cartoon. Pink hair, pale skin, goth outfit. I'd be an idiot to f*ck with that. There are idiots out there...but I don't want to be one of them.

[Agent Z]

Here we go talking about the person making the point instead of the actual point being made.

This isn't about diversity to me. It's about not having conflicting versions of characters, not confusing people with those conflicting versions, and using the best versions of the characters. I just did a quick google image search for "Teen Titans Jinx fan art", and about 99.9999% of the images that popped up was of Jinx from the Teen Titans cartoon. Pink hair, pale skin, goth outfit. I'd be an idiot to f*ck with that. There are idiots out there...but I don't want to be one of them.

The idea of different versions of the same character across media is not a mindblowing concept. Especially given how often DC showcases the multiverse.

And I wouldn't use fan art as a measurement of which version of Jinx is the best.

[Vampire Savior]

The idea of different versions of the same character across media is not a mindblowing concept. Especially given how often DC showcases the multiverse.

It's so weird how you talk to these comics people and you actually see how these types of messes happen...

Scenario:
Little girl picks up comic. "Oh! You say Jinx is in this comic! Great! I'll buy it."

Little girl is greeted by a bald indian woman. "Where's Jinx?"

Some grown man appears. "Jinx is that indian woman there. You see, Susie, you're reading the comics now. They're not like the cartoons you love. At all. You're going to have to accept and expect that. Let me explain this multiverse to you..."

"No thanks. I think I'll go back to watching the cartoons where the characters I love are at."

[Agent Z]

It's so weird how you talk to these comics people and you actually see how these types of messes happen...

Scenario:
Little girl picks up comic. "Oh! You say Jinx is in this comic! Great! I'll buy it."

Little girl is greeted by a bald indian woman. "Where's Jinx?"

Some grown man appears. "Jinx is that indian woman there. You see, Susie, you're reading the comics now. They're not like the cartoons you love. At all. You're going to have to accept and expect that. Let me explain this multiverse to you..."

"No thanks. I think I'll go back to watching the cartoons where the characters I love are at."

Little kids aren't this anal about differences between comics and adaptations. Where to find a comic starring Jinx is a bigger obstacle to reading about her than her being depicted as an Indian woman.

[Vampire Savior]

Little kids aren't this anal about differences between comics and adaptations. Where to find a comic starring Jinx is a bigger obstacle to reading about her than her being depicted as an Indian woman.

No, I think they are that anal. They do not think of Jinx as a bald indian woman and if you think they do, or if you think they are okay with Jinx as a totally unrecognizable character to them, you're fooling yourself. They think of her as the girl they've seen in cartoons, and Jinx fans think of her as the girl they draw fan art of. This idea of "diversity at any cost or bust", is frankly silly to me, and even counterproductive when it gets in the way of straight up common sense.

But, you know, I was asked two different a questions, and I gave my answers, and the reason for my answers. I'm open to discussing them to a point, but only to a point. If those answers don't work for you, great. You can "ship" Cyborg with who you want to, and display Jinx however you want in your fantasy world. That doesn't matter to me.

[TheManhunterfromMars]

I´m seeing an interesting discussion about Jinx, difference between cartoon and comic, some of you prefer the bald original one, some of you prefer the hot pink haired goth... may I suggest something like Rebirth Wally West/ Wallace West? bringing into cannon pink haired Jinx and saying she took the name from the bald one. This discussion it reminds me the confusion some people have about black Aqualad from Young Justice and the comics one, many insist on saying they´re the same character, but they really are only black and LGTB (originally also were both straight, but you know gaywashing sadly happens pretty often on comics), names, personalities and even the place where they born and grown is different (one was raised on surfice, the other on Atlantis) Also, kill me if you want it, but please not bald one, why are almost always black guys paired only with black girls?

[Vampire Savior]

I´m seeing an interesting discussion about Jinx, difference between cartoon and comic, some of you prefer the bald original one, some of you prefer the hot pink haired goth... may I suggest something like Rebirth Wally West/ Wallace West? bringing into cannon pink haired Jinx and saying she took the name from the bald one. This discussion it reminds me the confusion some people have about black Aqualad from Young Justice and the comics one, many insist on saying they´re the same character, but they really are only black and LGTB (originally also were both straight, but you know gaywashing sadly happens pretty often on comics), names, personalities and even the place where they born and grown is different (one was raised on surfice, the other on Atlantis) Also, kill me if you want it, but please not bald one, why are almost always black guys paired only with black girls?

Well, if the Indian woman is going to be Jinx, there is no point bothering shipping Cyborg with her, from my point of view, because there are so many differences between the different versions that I don't even view them as quite the same characters, and I imagine you would end up with quite a different dynamic. There's an off chance it would be better, but I wouldn't bet on it. I also wouldn't do a hybrid version of Jinx. Again, I'd just more or less transplant the character from the cartoons into the comics, and make adjustments for art style, but that's about it.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

What good has allowing Superman to fly instead of simply leaping tall buildings in a single bound done? What good has making Batman into “Batgod” done?

Nothing is wrong with those advances. Now if DC didn’t do anything with them it would seem a waste. If they didn’t develop those attributes then it would be senseless. But that’s not what they did. They pushed ahead with the advances and enriched the character. They simply cared to follow through.

What good will altering things to where Wonder Woman is the first superhero do? What about rolling back Hal Jordan’s upgraded lantern? Anybody think DC won’t follow through on what that means for the character?

I see no reason to scrap the advances to Cyborg. Scrap the writers/editorial/head honchos who are too limited to develop him.

I see what Bryan Hill is doing with Batman & The Outsiders. It’s a team book yet it feels like every character gets developed respectfully. New abilities are introduced and showcased. A great writer can do that. A great writer can write more than Batman. Sadly there’s only one of him.

In Batman and Superman's cases, though, their "upgrades" didn't involve completely erasing the mythology for the character that came before that. Also, in Vic's case, it has tied him to a group of characters that (a) he'd never really associated with before and (b) are arguably overexposed at this point in the DCU. In that respect, since his Apokolips-tied origin basically means that he was no longer ever a Titan, it significantly cheapens the character because by erasing his backstory and makes him TOO dependent on the New Gods. It would be one thing if it was retconned to say that he just received an upgrade from a Mother Box after having already been Cyborg for years, but that's not the situation.

[chief12d]

In Batman and Superman's cases, though, their "upgrades" didn't involve completely erasing the mythology for the character that came before that. Also, in Vic's case, it has tied him to a group of characters that (a) he'd never really associated with before and (b) are arguably overexposed at this point in the DCU. In that respect, since his Apokolips-tied origin basically means that he was no longer ever a Titan, it significantly cheapens the character because by erasing his backstory and makes him TOO dependent on the New Gods. It would be one thing if it was retconned to say that he just received an upgrade from a Mother Box after having already been Cyborg for years, but that's not the situation.

The bolded would be ideal. With DC heading for more retcons either during Death Metal or another crisis it’d be great to establish in Vic’s new history that he’d been a cyborg for years then somehow integrated Mother Box tech and decided to go solo. Then he has a less derivative origin. I’d actually like for the tech that he initially receives after his accident to originate from the Digital Universe so that concept can finally be explored in full.

[Ascended]

Comic Jinx wouldn't need a major redisign, just give her a pink wig and personality.

Yeah, there's no reason comics Jinx couldn't hit a goth phase.

Don't even need the wig. Just let her hair grow out and get her a bottle of dye from Hot Topic.

Problem solved. Jinx is still Indian but now resembles the cartoon. No race bending necessary.