Victor Stone: Cyborg Appreciation 2020

[Celgress]

Thank you. Love drawing Vic and still trying to nail my take on the character.

I second this. You did a great job.

[Holt]

With going back to the wack-ass design after getting a much superior redesign in the David Walker run, I'm guessing that was a failed attempt at synergy since that was the look they were going with in the DCEU. OF course it's moot now since the Justice League movie flopped and the planned Cyborg spin-off seems to be dead in the water.

Ironically, Doom Patrol, which has had a much better received take on Cyborg, uses a design that looks like it was influenced by the one from the Walker/Reis run.

Thank you. Love drawing Vic and still trying to nail my take on the character.

You did really nice work!

[Customizer]

looks like Victor himself won't be in Future State but Beast Boy will be taking on his cybernetics as "Cybeast".

EDIT: apparently the issue 1 solicit mentions Cyborg and Beast boy separately, so he may appear in the first issue and fuse with Beast Boy during the story.

Good God.

The hits keep on coming for Cyborg.

First that ... mess with Jessica Cruz and pinging (i've already forgotten the title. That should tell you something) and now this Cy-Beasts.

Jesus Christ.

I love Cyborgs new 52 design and David Walkers story telling.

I'm going to continue to ignore everything else Cyborg related until DC decides they want my money.

Support independent creators not attached to the DC machine. They know how to handle the characters you care about.

[Cyborguy]

With going back to the wack-ass design after getting a much superior redesign in the David Walker run, I'm guessing that was a failed attempt at synergy since that was the look they were going with in the DCEU. OF course it's moot now since the Justice League movie flopped and the planned Cyborg spin-off seems to be dead in the water.

Ironically, Doom Patrol, which has had a much better received take on Cyborg, uses a design that looks like it was influenced by the one from the Walker/Reis run.



You did really nice work!

I second this. You did a great job.

Thank you both!

The editor that changed it because he liked that old one better is gone now. But I'm not convinced people there like the character actually. I think they like the idea of Cyborg.

I need to catch up on Doom Patrol. I don't watch much tv so I haven't seen much. Heard it's great tho.

[Iconic]

I’m at the point that I’d rather they make his face all metal instead of 3/5ths if they’re dead set against allowing him to look human. It makes no sense technologically that everything else is metal except for that. It may have made sense in the 80’s with low level tech, but it doesn’t hold up in the 2020’s. Not with his in-story technological make-up.

[chief12d]

I’m at the point that I’d rather they make his face all metal instead of 3/5ths if they’re dead set against allowing him to lol human. It makes no sense technologically that everything else is metal except for that. It may have made sense in the 80’s with low level tech, but it doesn’t hold up in the 2020’s. Not with his in-story technological make-up.

The only thing I don't like about the face plate is the size. If they just made it like Jessica Cruz's lantern logo, where it's just around his eye are, I'd be fine. Many cyborgs in DC, even those that have his tech, have a full head of hair. Because objectively it looks more attractive.

Outside nostalgia, there's no reason Vic shouldn't have more symmetrical cybernetics on his face. You can still identify him by the red eye but you've increased his attractiveness and wish fulfillment factor by a good bit imo. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on because frankly I doubt DC has any interest in making him a more marketable character anymore, but I think it would help his appeal and minimize the angst.

[Frontier]

Don't forget what we heard from editorial about Cyborg's look.

He can't change because that look is ICONIC.

Excluding Hal Jordan & Barry Allen (maybe Superman)-everyone else is walking around in a different outfit than the outfit that made them ICONS.

Wonder Woman is not walking around like Lynda Carter's WW.
Batman sure is NOT.
Nor is the various Robins.
Nor Supergirl.
Nor Harley.
Nor Luke Cage, Falcon, Black Panther, Storm, Iron Man, Thor and so on.

SO why can't Cyborg? Even If it's Doom Patrol look Cyborg.

I mean, he has changed though. It's not like he's still sporting his Perez design, but I guess then the question becomes whether the faceplate is on the level of Batman's cowl and chest emblem or similar iconography that is paramount no matter how much a costume gets redesigned.

The only thing I don't like about the face plate is the size. If they just made it like Jessica Cruz's lantern logo, where it's just around his eye are, I'd be fine. Many cyborgs in DC, even those that have his tech, have a full head of hair. Because objectively it looks more attractive.

Outside nostalgia, there's no reason Vic shouldn't have more symmetrical cybernetics on his face. You can still identify him by the red eye but you've increased his attractiveness and wish fulfillment factor by a good bit imo. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on because frankly I doubt DC has any interest in making him a more marketable character anymore, but I think it would help his appeal and minimize the angst.

The size seems to vary depending on the design, although it's mainly centered around his left eye and just a part of his face (but again, depending on the design).

[lemonpeace]

The "iconic" argument they use to force Vic into a clunkier design is so disingenuous to me because if they were designing to maximize his most iconic look, the design would've been more reminiscent of his Teen Titans the TV show. I mean THAT is the character at his most iconic, the color, the elements of human flesh; people like a Cyborg that looks like a Cyborg. If the angsty metal tank was the vic on that show, I doubt people would've been drawn to him.

the issues with Vic's design has always simply been a lack of creativity and attention paid to him for being lower on the DC hierarchy people like Dan Didio, Geoff Johns, and a number of editors had been insisted upon. His position as the token for the Justice League started becoming more important than his narrative progression (because DC leadership had/has long since unilaterally abandoned that concept), so they want you to associate him with being in the tier of the hierarchy but you can't push his character toward anything too big with him, or invest too much into him, because he's not really high enough on the hierarchy; so he doesn't "warrant it". it's always weird how characters can not be worthy of a good story.

[Frontier]

The "iconic" argument they use to force Vic into a clunkier design is so disingenuous to me because if they were designing to maximize his most iconic look, the design would've been more reminiscent of his Teen Titans the TV show. I mean THAT is the character at his most iconic, the color, the elements of human flesh; people like a Cyborg that looks like a Cyborg. If the angsty metal tank was the vic on that show, I doubt people would've been drawn to him.

Now that I think about it, that design is weirdly both "big" yet streamlined at the same time. He was kind of built like a tank though, just not a overly bulky one like his New 52 design.

[lemonpeace]

Now that I think about it, that design is weirdly both "big" yet streamlined at the same time. He was kind of built like a tank though, just not a overly bulky one like his New 52 design.

Exactly, he wasn't super sleek, he was still the tank if the team but his design had character and felt balanced; and it also helped that he didn't just spawn tech out of himself all the time.

it's cool to have some built in tech but with TT (how I remember it) besides his sonic cannon he usually was either mixing it up hand to hand or by inventing and using technology. so he when the tech on his body got destroyed it happened more sparingly and I didn't just feel like any old robot or machine to be smashed, it had weight. now, Cyborg is just metal spawning guns and other tech everywhere, you barely recognize he's supposed to be human under there when they get broken.

[Frontier]

Exactly, he wasn't super sleek, he was still the tank if the team but his design had character and felt balanced; and it also helped that he didn't just spawn tech out of himself all the time.

it's cool to have some built in tech but with TT (how I remember it) besides his sonic cannon he usually was either mixing it up hand to hand or by inventing and using technology. so he when the tech on his body got destroyed it happened more sparingly and I didn't just feel like any old robot or machine to be smashed, it had weight. now, Cyborg is just metal spawning guns and other tech everywhere, you barely recognize he's supposed to be human under there when they get broken.

I remember him having different weapons like every episode. Like tons of missiles or like a knee cannon or double sonic cannon .

[9th.]

I’m at the point that I’d rather they make his face all metal instead of 3/5ths if they’re dead set against allowing him to look human. It makes no sense technologically that everything else is metal except for that. It may have made sense in the 80’s with low level tech, but it doesn’t hold up in the 2020’s. Not with his in-story technological make-up.

The only real justification I have is that the face plate is iconic, it's his S symbol. It's makes sense for the time period he was created in but not now. Technology and prosthetics have came along way. If it were up to me he'd keep the face plate but give him a lot more skin. I love Cyborguys design so it'd be like that mixed with the DP look. The problem with Cyborg is that he's robot character and therefore is bound to show a lot of metal. It's the reason why they always show Terminators with half their face hanging off.

[lemonpeace]

I remember him having different weapons like every episode. Like tons of missiles or like a knee cannon or double sonic cannon .

yeah, he had weapon upgrades but he didn't just spawn fifteen giant guns out of how chest like a mechanical Green Lantern. He had all kinds if different arms and other parts to use that he made himself, i will always insist the motherbox tech upgrade was a cool idea but it's made writers lazy with the way Vic uses technology. I liked it better when it wasnt just "oh that supercomputer robot in my head that controls 90% of my body that isn't the 1/2 of my face that's human can just create all these miscellaneous weapons that we have no context for". I feel it would work better if the motherbox is just life support and boosts his intelligence but his actual super-tech should be external. In the cartoon he wasnt just a walking armory, remember the episode when he got sent back in time and didn't have his tech, and he had to work it out from scratch to save power; if that was Cyborg now he'd just transform into a jet like starscream and fly through a boom tube back to his time. I mean, it's saying something that most of the time the brainiacs look more human than Vic does.

[Frontier]

yeah, he had weapon upgrades but he didn't just spawn fifteen giant guns out of how chest like a mechanical Green Lantern. He had all kinds if different arms and other parts to use that he made himself, i will always insist the motherbox tech upgrade was a cool idea but it's made writers lazy with the way Vic uses technology. I liked it better when it wasnt just "oh that supercomputer robot in my head that controls 90% of my body that isn't the 1/2 of my face that's human can just create all these miscellaneous weapons that we have no context for". I feel it would work better if the motherbox is just life support and boosts his intelligence but his actual super-tech should be external. In the cartoon he wasnt just a walking armory, remember the episode when he got sent back in time and didn't have his tech, and he had to work it out from scratch to save power; if that was Cyborg now he'd just transform into a jet like starscream and fly through a boom tube back to his time. I mean, it's saying something that most of the time the brainiacs look more human than Vic does.

Is he really that way now, though?

[lemonpeace]

Is he really that way now, though?

almost every time we see Cyborg he's spawning a different vague scifi gun that (I guess) we are supposed to assume is his sonic canon.



vague busy scifi gun



vague busy scifi gun



vague busy scifi gun again

that's the default that carrys over, other than that he's either hacking into something with his mind or getting torn apart. sure, we'll get a random device here or there but most time it's just "oh another thing that he has because motherbox" and it's gone, never to be thought of again without doing anything for the character. like, not every single gadget individually added something to Vic in the show but the context that he was building these things, these were tools he used, did added to the character. what has the infinite weapon spawn really done for him? instead of the motherbox giving him nanites to make whatever, how about he uses it to boomtube in weapons or devices from his lab. Vic's a scientist, show him building and sciencing it up the way a human being would because he's a human being.