Victor Stone: Cyborg Appreciation 2020

[ironman2978]

Yes I am critical of Justice League movie that doesn't have anything to do with the portrayal of Cyborg which what I was talking about.



So we have 9 years of it not doing any harm. Again you probably need to look at what being harmful is, They would have to use it and it was negative and hurt the character.

Plus we do have a great story the origin story with the mother box in the live-action Justice League, YJ cartoon, in the comic books, and the animated movie. The origin story for Cyborg is great and actually holds up I think with the best of the genre. We have discussed to death here why Cyborg doesn't go on have greater success

Spiderman- Hey I got powers, I am awesome
Flash-Hey I got powers,I am awesome
Iron Man-Hey I got a power suit , I am awesome
Cyborg-Hey I got powers. Life sucks, I am even human.

They try to write Cyborg like he is a tragic character while all the good version of Cyborg has him happy a well adjusted. What is most harmful is consistently writing him like this



when people just want him to do this

Honestly that’s more on editors and the writers not seeing that same potential as Cyborg was given in YJ, Doom Patrol, Smallville, etc.

I agree, the Mother Box/Apokolips connection wasn’t harmful, in fact it was the opposite. The fact that Cyborg was branching out to other teams (Metal Man, Doom Patrol, Justice League, getting a solo title, Flashpoint making him a Superman level hero, getting more promotion and recognition in solo titles) was helpful to his character but when the editoral didn’t do more to help especially when writers had good ideas for the character. I wish we did get to see Cyborg interact with solo heroes, or develop more of the status quo we got in the beginning of Rebirth or JLO, etc. But it felt like the same problems a lot of heroes had after the post-John’s effect. They are forced to only work within that status quo that John’s instills with expanding or doing more with it.

The problem wasn’t that Cyborg doesn’t work without the Titans or doesn’t work with mother box technology, it’s the writers being hampered from doing more with the character despite having all the tools but editors getting in the way from actually using it to their full potential. It’s like having a child lock on the character.

[Iconic]

The problem wasn’t that Cyborg doesn’t work without the Titans or doesn’t work with mother box technology, it’s the writers being hampered from doing more with the character despite having all the tools but editors getting in the way from actually using it to their full potential. It’s like having a child lock on the character.

Yes! That’s exactly what it’s felt like with comic book Cyborg. He’s stuck in the back seat and no one wants to let him out.

Design regression.

The “Am I human” story repetition.

No definitive explanation of his physical makeup.

A lack of power fantasy/positivity to enjoy.

For those of us who are honestly interested in the character, it’s more for his potential than what he currently is because there is so much we don’t know about what he is.

[dkrook]

Yes! That’s exactly what it’s felt like with comic book Cyborg. He’s stuck in the back seat and no one wants to let him out.

Design regression.

The “Am I human” story repetition.

No definitive explanation of his physical makeup.

A lack of power fantasy/positivity to enjoy.

For those of us who are honestly interested in the character, it’s more for his potential than what he currently is because there is so much we don’t know about what he is.

It's a shame when even us as basic fans have a better understanding of what needs to be done to make Cyborg great. More to that point is that all of us are in agreement.

[ironman2978]

It's a shame when even us as basic fans have a better understanding of what needs to be done to make Cyborg great. More to that point is that all of us are in agreement.

Honestly that’s the same with a lot of characters and ideas

- Wildstorm and Milestone being in the same universe (Martian Manhunter working with Stormwatch, Black Canary and Amanda Waller working with Team 7, Static and Rocket working with the Teen Titans/Young Justice) as DC being done better in YJ and Static Shock/JLU

- Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle and other new and interesting minority characters (Simon Baz, Jessica Cruz, New 52 Vibe, Threeboot Starboy, etc) getting shoved to the back burner as soon as they are introduced

- Firestorm being Ronnie Raymond and Jason Rusch only for it to turn to Ronnie Raymond and Martin Stein and never get used again

- Green Arrow taking elements from Smallville, Arrow and playing in modern day social justice topics but not much coming out of it.

- Using a mix of New 52 and DCAU Justice League on Scott Snyder run but barely doing anything with that line up with ended up getting lost in the convoluted Scott Snyder Justice For All/Dark Nites/Death Metal run

- Amanda Waller and Steve Trevor running a government mandated Justice League

-Cyborg or John Stewart being leader of the Justice League

- Interesting new characters (Harper Row, Duke Thomas, etc) who never get fleshed out.

It feels like DC goes in the extreme one way or another (playing in nostalgia or it all matters or trying new and interesting ideas with familiar characters) to please people but ends up pleasing no one and leaving everyone confused. And the few new interesting ideas that do work or has potential get thrown away to never be used again because DC assumes that is what fans want. No one is winning, not really.


The writers that do know what to do with it or has potential to make those ideas work, get hampered by editorial time and tone again. When most fans are in agreement:

All these ideas have potential, let’s just see it all the way through. You don’t have to remove DC’s vast history or do countless reboots to do it. Just let the characters grow and evolve naturally under the right writers and everything will come.

[9th.]

It's a shame when even us as basic fans have a better understanding of what needs to be done to make Cyborg great. More to that point is that all of us are in agreement.

Exactly there's no point in all this arguing we're doing, Cyborg has the same problem every other black/minority/non bat character has. NO ONE AT DC GIVES A DAMN.

[ironman2978]

Honestly Cyborg has

We know Cyborg could work if given these 3 things, if not more:

1.) Cyborg bouncing off other heroes as an equal without constantly referencing his Titans history (Smallville, Both Whedon and Snyder’s JL Movie, DC Super Friends: Joker’s Playhouse, JL: Action, Doom Patrol, Cyborg bouncing off the Metal Men in the Forever Evil arc (and being one of the driving forces in fighting CSA, Brainiac, etc), The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians)
2. Being a competent solo hero (David Walker’s Cyborg series, Flashpoint, Snyder JL, Doom Patrol)
3. The New Gods component of Cyborg (YJ, JLO before editoral, Geoff John’s JL run and JL movie)

Yes, it is cool to have Cyborg with his Titans history growing into his own hero (2003 Teen Titans cartoon and the comics pre Flashpoint) but that doesn’t mean he has to be beholden, tied down or limited by it in order to be written or treated as a good character but it sucks bc I feel like that is the message DC got and now Cyborg is set even further back because of it. The few good moments Cyborg’s potential is shown, is now gone because DC isn’t willing to fully explore what this, or other other black/minority/non bat characters could be especially as MCU level franchises if given the chance and have as much shots as Marvel characters has been given.

[chief12d]

Honestly Cyborg has

We know Cyborg could work if given these 3 things, if not more:

1.) Cyborg bouncing off other heroes as an equal without constantly referencing his Titans history (Smallville, Both Whedon and Snyder’s JL Movie, DC Super Friends: Joker’s Playhouse, JL: Action, Doom Patrol, Cyborg bouncing off the Metal Men in the Forever Evil arc (and being one of the driving forces in fighting CSA, Brainiac, etc), The Super Powers Team: Galactic Guardians)
2. Being a competent solo hero (David Walker’s Cyborg series, Flashpoint, Snyder JL, Doom Patrol)
3. The New Gods component of Cyborg (YJ, JLO before editoral, Geoff John’s JL run and JL movie)

Yes, it is cool to have Cyborg with his Titans history growing into his own hero (2003 Teen Titans cartoon and the comics pre Flashpoint) but that doesn’t mean he has to be beholden, tied down or limited by it in order to be written or treated as a good character but it sucks bc I feel like that is the message DC got and now Cyborg is set even further back because of it. The few good moments Cyborg’s potential is shown, is now gone because DC isn’t willing to fully explore what this, or other other black/minority/non bat characters could be especially as MCU level franchises if given the chance and have as much shots as Marvel characters has been given.

I think you're right for the most part, but I think with the relatively solid execution of his character in multimedia adaptations Vic has connections that expand past the Titans which I think serve him well. Even in the comics, he's been on the League for nearly a decade, that experience likely won't get erased short of another full reboot. On the big screen he's further being pushed as a Leaguer and on the small screen he's thriving as a member of the Doom Patrol, which is offering some of the best Vic characterization in the character's history.

The failure was that the solos weren't particularly great. They didn't inherit the great lessons from the cartoons (and subsequent portrayals), which is that a confident, well-adjusted Cyborg can be a hit with fans. They didn't lean into the aspects of Vic that may have further piqued fans' interest, like the Fourth World, and there was legitimate disappointment in his Titans backstory being erased. Vic has the elements to be more than just a Titan, there just hasn't been a comprehensive vision for where he's supposed to go.

Like with Black Panther over at Marvel, editorial sees the potential but they lack the love and appreciation for the character needed to put them on the right track within the wider shared universe. So the paltry attempts to build a successful solo IP failed, the movie flops, and now all you have are smatterings of great Cyborgs across numerous mediums but no one with the talent or desire to consolidate them into the comics.

The best thing that can happen is that the Titans comics improve but history has shown that probably won't happen. It's a low-effort book that produces mid-tier sales and that's likely what it will continue being until a true visionary comes along and delivers the DOX-style revamp the X-Men are getting.

[lemonpeace]

The test footage used to pitch the show to Kids Wb before the show ended up on Cartoon Network:

and who said Cyborg doesn't belong on the Justice League see, i didn't even know they almost tried to make somethin shake back in the day; and they almost did it by making him a girl?! I wonder if Vic would've been Victoria to this day if this went through. I honestly think he may have faired better in whatever they were trying to do with him in the New 52 if he were a female tbh.looks like a alita type combatant. however given DC's track record with black female characters, maybe not. still interesting trivia tho.

[9th.]

and who said Cyborg doesn't belong on the Justice League see, i didn't even know they almost tried to make somethin shake back in the day; and they almost did it by making him a girl?! I wonder if Vic would've been Victoria to this day if this went through. I honestly think he may have faired better in whatever they were trying to do with him in the New 52 if he were a female tbh.combatant given DC's track record with black female characters, maybe not. still interesting trivia tho.

I highly doubt that DC can barely do right by the black women they have now, Vixen and Bumblebee have been surviving based off on screen appearances rather than comics.

[HandofPrometheus]

Poor Cyborg. DC really doesn't see him as a person or as a human. Either he getting ripped apart for some plot, used as a taxi cab/monitor duty, or for spare parts. DC wasn't pulling this crap when he was actually half-human and still resembled one. The mother box origin was the worst thing to happen to him.

[Dark Falz]

I don't know that DC doesn't see Cyborg as a person...or a fictional person. As I think I said at some time earlier, he just hasn't been a popular character with the people that work at and for DC. The break he got was just some token stuff going on. Hittin' quotas and all that. I always thought that was pretty obvious.

[skyvolt2000]

I don't know that DC doesn't see Cyborg as a person...or a fictional person. As I think I said at some time earlier, he just hasn't been a popular character with the people that work at and for DC. The break he got was just some token stuff going on. Hittin' quotas and all that. I always thought that was pretty obvious.

He is but as we have seen on the comic book side-if the folks in charge don't care for you-you are giving scraps.

At any other company they would have tried something beyond what was done with Cyborg (and many others).

[Holt]

"Class is in session on March 17, 2021, as the Future State: Teen Titans duo of writer Tim Sheridan and artist Rafa Sandoval join the original Titans – Nightwing, Starfire, Cyborg, Raven and Beast Boy – school a new generation of teenage crimefighters in a new ongoing series, Teen Titans Academy. Pay close attention, because one of these novice heroes will become Red X!"

[Vordan]

Knew it. Back to the Titans for Vic, his push is over. Well fingers crossed with Didio gone this will be decent.

[Frontier]

Knew it. Back to the Titans for Vic, his push is over. Well fingers crossed with Didio gone this will be decent.

Well, being on the Titans doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be pushed less. It probably just depends on a bunch of other factors.