Victor Stone: Cyborg Appreciation 2020

[Johnny]

The guy has grooves/lines in his face and still looks appealing. What’s crazy is that in-story Vic is infinitely more advanced than this character but looks infinitely dated. If only they’d let go of the nostalgia of elderly times.

I think no matter what happens they'll always keep the face plate. Even if Vic got a vastly more appealing look, they'll still find a way to keep that face plate since it's obvious they think it's the most iconic part of his look.

[Ascended]

I think no matter what happens they'll always keep the face plate. Even if Vic got a vastly more appealing look, they'll still find a way to keep that face plate since it's obvious they think it's the most iconic part of his look.

They're not wrong either. For good or ill, that's Vic's most defining visual trait, and changing public perception on that without losing Vic's marketability would be a long-term effort.

The first steps are finding a better, more modern design aesthetic without losing the face plate, letting Vic use the ability to look normal more often and more consistently (as is, it's virtually a trivia question, like Superman's solar flare power), and then very slowly phasing the face plate out, where Vic uses it less and less until he stops completely.

[Iconic]

I think no matter what happens they'll always keep the face plate. Even if Vic got a vastly more appealing look, they'll still find a way to keep that face plate since it's obvious they think it's the most iconic part of his look.

They could keep the groove in his face along the same path as the existing faceplate if it’s that necessary.

[docmidnite]

They could keep the groove in his face along the same path as the existing faceplate if it’s that necessary.

I don’t know, losing the face plate would be like losing Vic altogether to me. It’s so ingrained into his aesthetic. Look at his appearance in Doom Patrol. It just works.

[Customizer]

I'm in the complete opposite camp. I'd buy far more Cyborg product if he lost the face plate and was simply shown with a full face. At this rate the guy can generate helmets, visors, or whatever head covering suits the job at the moment so there's no need for DC to anchor him with a design that a fair percentage of his supporters dislike. I haven't watched Doom Patrol precisely because of how Cyborg looks. I'm willing to watch an episode despite his look based upon what i've read in this thread.

[Johnny]

Removing his face plate would be like Marvel removing Cyclops' visor. It just won't make sense from a marketing perspective. I think they just need a more appealing overall design.

[Iconic]

Removing his face plate would be like Marvel removing Cyclops' visor. It just won't make sense from a marketing perspective. I think they just need a more appealing overall design.

Not quite. Cyclops visor is cool and has a plausible reason for existing that can’t become dated.

For all we know Vic could become far more profitable if they adjust his faceplate situation.

[Johnny]

Not quite. Cyclops visor is cool and has a plausible reason for existing that can’t become dated.

For all we know Vic could become far more profitable if they adjust his faceplate situation.

It's not about whether the face plate looks dated or not, it's about how it's being seen as the most important element of his character design. Cyclops always has the visor regardless of how the rest of his costume happens to look like. I don't see them disposing of the face plate for that reason, they should make sure the rest of Vic's design look less dated, just like Scott Summers doesn't have yellow trunks and boots anymore.

[Vampire Savior]

Well, I don't know about other people, but so long as Cyborg has that faceplate, I don't think I'll ever be able to get into the character. It's just...not cool looking. This is perhaps a bit of an extreme example, but it would be like if there was a super hero I was supposed to take seriously that wore a diaper on top of his head. I don't think I'd be able to see past that.
The faceplate might be cool if he was a villain, like Cyborg Superman, but as a superhero in the mythic DCU...it doesn't work for me.

Furthermore, the faceplate is just one problem I see on top of about five bajillion others going on with the character.

[Customizer]

A few things come to mind....

Cyborg supporters are calling for a change for the character in both appearance and personality traits. Many have specifically stated over the years that they *don't* like the face plate and that's one of the reasons they don't support the character with more passion. I count myself among them. I would actually spend more money on DC's Cyborg IP product (comics, toys, shirts, etc.) if they made that subtle change. Even David Walker and Christopher Priest addressed this as writers of the character.

In contrast Cyclops visor is pretty damn cool heh. In fact if Cyborg had a visor i'd be ok with that. After all Scott removes the visor on occasion so i can imagine Victor doing the same. Cyborg having the red "C" on his chest armor (or red half sphere) is the constant that should continue. He is always recognizable with his sliver armor and red c or half sphere (in red or blue).

[Customizer]

Well, I don't know about other people, but so long as Cyborg has that faceplate, I don't think I'll ever be able to get into the character. It's just...not cool looking. This is perhaps a bit of an extreme example, but it would be like if there was a super hero I was supposed to take seriously that wore a diaper on top of his head. I don't think I'd be able to see past that.
The faceplate might be cool if he was a villain, like Cyborg Superman, but as a superhero in the mythic DCU...it doesn't work for me.

Furthermore, the faceplate is just one problem I see on top of about five bajillion others going on with the character.

I'm very close to this perspective myself. I actually really enjoyed Sempers run visually. VISUALLY lol.



Although honestly i only see 3 problems that need to be fixed. The face plate , character agency (which includes going beyond the man vs machine BS) and staying as far away as possible from that horrid DCEU body design. That's it. A good writer can build upon that foundation easily.

[docmidnite]

A few things come to mind....

Cyborg supporters are calling for a change for the character in both appearance and personality traits. Many have specifically stated over the years that they *don't* like the face plate and that's one of the reasons they don't support the character with more passion. I count myself among them. I would actually spend more money on DC's Cyborg IP product (comics, toys, shirts, etc.) if they made that subtle change. Even David Walker and Christopher Priest addressed this as writers of the character.

In contrast Cyclops visor is pretty damn cool heh. In fact if Cyborg had a visor i'd be ok with that. After all Scott removes the visor on occasion so i can imagine Victor doing the same. Cyborg having the red "C" on his chest armor (or red half sphere) is the constant that should continue. He is always recognizable with his sliver armor and red c or half sphere (in red or blue).

Personally I have seen the opposite when it comes to the face plate as a lot of his supporters don’t want him to lose his iconic look/the face plate and be unrecognizable from the character they fell in love with in the cartoons since the 80’s (Challenge of the Superfriends, Teen Titans Go, Young Justice) and now TV (Doom Patrol)

So maybe we should say it’s maybe 50/50 as cartoons/television reach a wider audience than comics do.

[Iconic]

It’s hard to want to support Cyborg in his current state. And it’s bothersome seeing him among his JL peers and trying to ignore the obvious disparity in their looks. Remember guys: he was the one black guy at the time. Like it or not, that stood out.

There were only 3 original black characters at DC. Cyborg, Vixen and Black Lightning. And at the time Black Lightning wasn’t back on the scene yet.

There’s not even a plausible in-story reason as to why the faceplate is still there. With what he’s now capable of, why does it exist?

I agree that his emblem should become his main identifier. Robin used to run around in pixie shorts. Should that stick around to satisfy a few people’s nostalgia? Of course not. It just doesn’t work for the times. Nightwing is a total redesign of the character and there’s no one suggesting he look the way he used to. Robin grew. Let Cyborg grow with the technology of the times.

[Ascended]

I don't think anyone is saying not to evolve the design aesthetic. But the marketing aspect of things, that's not nostalgia or anything else, that's about recognizable visuals you can slap on a t-shirt or lunchbox or whatever and still have the IP be instantly recognizable. Robin's pixie shorts weren't the most defining element of his costume, that example is hyperbole. His "R" emblem is, and you'll notice that every single Robin uses it. The detail will shift a little but it's always a yellow "R" on a black circle/oval.

For most A-list properties, their most iconic visual is their emblem. The "S" shield, the Bat, the "W" crest, the Spider, the X-in-the-circle, etc etc. You can put any of those on merchandise and people know who it is. And you notice that stuff doesn't change? Superman will have trunks, no trunks, t-shirts, armor, whatever, but that "S" shield stays on his chest no matter what. For Vic, he doesn't have an emblem that people know. In fact, the idea of Vic having one at all is a relatively new thing. People recognize him by the face plate.

That can be changed, but it's not a quick and easy thing. It'll take time to burn a Cyborg emblem into the public consciousness as deeply as the face plate is. So if you want to change it, you have to keep the plate, introduce a well designed emblem (which I don't think we've had yet), and then start working that emblem into the merchandise and visuals until it's as well known as the face plate and can "take over" the marketing stuff.

Just as an example, I used to have a poster with about 9 DC heroes on it. It's a minimalist piece, everyone is in silhouette except for a few details like masks, capes, etc, and their emblems. And those emblems are largely how you recognize these otherwise detail-less characters. Vic's on there, and he's got the red circle on his chest but what makes him recognizable is the face plate. Give Vic a good emblem, keep it until it's as well known, and you can get rid of the face plate. But until then, you're just taking away the guy's biggest merchandising element and that is not going to help him. As fans of Vic, we should demand that DC update his painfully outdated design, but as fans of Vic we also don't want him to sell even less merchandise because his most defining visual is suddenly gone and nobody recognizes him.

Or DC could take a gamble, switch it up without any transition period, and hope it all just works out magically. And hey, sometimes that does happen. But those aren't odds I'd be willing to bet on.

[Customizer]

Personally I have seen the opposite when it comes to the face plate as a lot of his supporters don’t want him to lose his iconic look/the face plate and be unrecognizable from the character they fell in love with in the cartoons since the 80’s (Challenge of the Superfriends, Teen Titans Go, Young Justice) and now TV (Doom Patrol)

So maybe we should say it’s maybe 50/50 as cartoons/television reach a wider audience than comics do.

I can understand the logic behind that perspective. I'd be interested in seeing just how much appeal Cyborg has in mass media sans face plate vs with it. I'd never begrudge a person for wanting to see "their" version of a comic book character. After all (broken record here lol) i like the Rebirth armor design and would in no way shape or form pay money for anything Cyborg related depicting his 1980's design. It seems to me that the people who like his old design aren't numerous enough to take the character to new heights via product purchase.

Much like the Black Panther did at one point Cyborg needs a minor visual design tweak. Black Panther wasn't completely redesigned.