Clint Barton: Hawkeye Appreciation 2020

[Matternativ]

For me to have him just retire to his farm - again - at the end of the series is the worst possible ending they could give him as it's basically how he ends every movie now. It's tired, and the least creative thing they could do with him. We have already seen it, what, three times already? His character deserves so much more than "comes out of retirement to fight the baddie, then retires" but that's all he gets and it's so frustrating. Even removing my 616 Clint love from the picture and focusing solely on MCU Clint, it's just plain bad writing and non-existent character development.

But there's nothing anyone can say to make me accept the family, unfortunately. Their very existence basically wrote him into a corner. He's barely an Avenger, and has no relationships with any of the others except for Natasha, and even that they downplayed considerably between Age of Ultron to Endgame. I won't even get into how he was treated in Endgame, but I could easily see him unable to go back to his normal life after everything he did and needing to leave it behind, and Laura knew he was a killer, but cleanly killing people for SHIELD and brutally massacring entire gangs of people are completely different things. He's a changed man from the one she knew just yesterday, so I could easily see the marriage falling apart. At least it would be an interesting plotline for the shoe, and good character work for Clint to go through.

I also don't think casting has anything to do with the issues with MCU Clint. Renner did the best he could with what he was given, and even he was unhappy with much of it. But just watching the short lived tv show The Unusuals, I have no doubts he could have made an awesome Clint if Whedon had written any version of the character other than Ultimates.

On a brighter note, though, I absolutely loved Captain Marvel: The End and was so happy with Katie Barton! I would love to see more of her and the other second gen kids, especially in a book that included flashbacks of their parents and what happened in that world. Her appearance definitely made my week!

EDIT: Also, on the Clint/Natasha side of things, a big reason I want to see someone give them an honest shot again is because I want to see how they work through their differing morals. They're both very different people now than they were when they were first together, and I would love to see a writer actually tackle their relationship to see if they could actually make it work this time. I find their dynamic so interesting, and there's clearly a lot of love there, but also a lot of issues. Could make for a great story under the right writer.

See I actually REALLY liked what they did in Endgame with him and while I would have preferred his family gone for good, taking it away again now feels just super off to me but I can see that we won't be able to agree on that part.

As for Renner as Clint: He's one of those actors who I feel largely play an exaggerated version of themselves much like Tom Cruise, the Rock or Arnie and while that always makes for a very authentic feeling person in screen it becomes a problem when that's just not who the adapted character is.
I mean it starts with the looks: Clint in the comics is tall, lean (well depending on the artist he might also look like the Hulk but you know...) and a couple years younger than most other main avengers. Renner is none of those things and carries himself calm, collected and a but like he can't be asked at times while 616 Clint is hot headed (or WAS), eager and idealistic.

Now obviously the main argument against that is that they adapted Ultimate Clint but the problem is that he was completely different as well.
He was an absolute jerk, hyper efficient, and super menacing. The Ronin introduction scene aside, when was Hawkeye in the MCU ever either of those?

Now if course the adaptation couldn't and should not be a carbon copy. They have to fit into that new universe and that is all fine but they dropped the ball with him in more ways than one and I can't help but feel the casting was the first one.
As far as I remember he wasn't meant to get the role in the first place but a friend of his made it happen.
I mean there is nothing wrong with that of course I just wish they would have gotten with someone else.
And again: I like Renner as an actor in anything I've seen him do yet so it isn't a case of me just hating the fella.

Now Movie stuff out of the way
I always felt like it was a wasted opportunity to not have Natasha interact with Clint after the whole Hulk situation.
Mostly because it would have been interesting to see her
, as someone who probably thinks he very much did the right thing, try to still be empathetic over how torn he was.

But more importantly I'd have liked him to hang more with her after her resurrection (and maybe he has, I haven't checked out Rosenberg's punisher because it's a book about the punisher) since he went through a similar death/un-dead-ed/angry and edgy phase as Ronin and I like their continued theme of where he is like "I know you can be better than that" and I'd like to see Nat more as the superhero rather than the spy for a while.
That being said with Kelly Thompson's Widow solo on the horizon I'm actually pretty sure we'll get more interactions with Clint and some less grimdark storytelling.

Did the story with Kate Bishops dead ever re-surface?

Wait, wait, what?

Oh you mean "Dad", right?
Yeah it did: Kate's solo book and the west coast avengers dealt with that.

[your_name_here]

D’oh yeah, I meant dad. And thanks I’ll check it out, was it any good?

[Matternativ]

D’oh yeah, I meant dad. And thanks I’ll check it out, was it any good?

In my opinion everything Thompson touches is either good or great. At least everything I have checked out so far.
But for a more nuanced answer: If you like light hearted, comedic books: absolutely.
And considering what you said about Fractions Hawkeye the other day I'm pretty sure you do.

West Coast Avengers was basically the sequel to her Bishop solo so I'd suggest you down switch the order when reading them.

[Sneakronicity]

See I actually REALLY liked what they did in Endgame with him and while I would have preferred his family gone for good, taking it away again now feels just super off to me but I can see that we won't be able to agree on that part.

As for Renner as Clint: He's one of those actors who I feel largely play an exaggerated version of themselves much like Tom Cruise, the Rock or Arnie and while that always makes for a very authentic feeling person in screen it becomes a problem when that's just not who the adapted character is.
I mean it starts with the looks: Clint in the comics is tall, lean (well depending on the artist he might also look like the Hulk but you know...) and a couple years younger than most other main avengers. Renner is none of those things and carries himself calm, collected and a but like he can't be asked at times while 616 Clint is hot headed (or WAS), eager and idealistic.

Now obviously the main argument against that is that they adapted Ultimate Clint but the problem is that he was completely different as well.
He was an absolute jerk, hyper efficient, and super menacing. The Ronin introduction scene aside, when was Hawkeye in the MCU ever either of those?

Now if course the adaptation couldn't and should not be a carbon copy. They have to fit into that new universe and that is all fine but they dropped the ball with him in more ways than one and I can't help but feel the casting was the first one.
As far as I remember he wasn't meant to get the role in the first place but a friend of his made it happen.
I mean there is nothing wrong with that of course I just wish they would have gotten with someone else.
And again: I like Renner as an actor in anything I've seen him do yet so it isn't a case of me just hating the fella.

Now Movie stuff out of the way
I always felt like it was a wasted opportunity to not have Natasha interact with Clint after the whole Hulk situation.
Mostly because it would have been interesting to see her
, as someone who probably thinks he very much did the right thing, try to still be empathetic over how torn he was.

But more importantly I'd have liked him to hang more with her after her resurrection (and maybe he has, I haven't checked out Rosenberg's punisher because it's a book about the punisher) since he went through a similar death/un-dead-ed/angry and edgy phase as Ronin and I like their continued theme of where he is like "I know you can be better than that" and I'd like to see Nat more as the superhero rather than the spy for a while.
That being said with Kelly Thompson's Widow solo on the horizon I'm actually pretty sure we'll get more interactions with Clint and some less grimdark storytelling.

Wait, wait, what?

Oh you mean "Dad", right?
Yeah it did: Kate's solo book and the west coast avengers dealt with that.

I don't think we'll agree on anything MCU Clint related, as I honestly think Renner would have made an amazing Clint had someone actually written Clint. I definitely don't judge whether actors physically suit the role after Hugh Jackman's Wolverine lol. But that's okay! We do seem to be on the same wavelength when it comes to the comics version.

I definitely agree about all the miss opportunities for Clint and Natasha recently. Even just seeing her thoughts on the Hulk situation (which I don't think we got) would have been very interesting, let alone them actually talking about it. and man, I am forever disappointed with how her resurrection was handled, both with her character personally, and her relationship with Clint. He would have been the perfect person to commiserate with about it, as you said, but also seeing how broken Clint was from her death to them just barely interacting and definitely never acknowledging anything unfinished between them doesn't feel right. I do have high hopes for Thompson's Widow run at least.

[Snoop Dogg]

https://graphicpolicy.com/2020/02/06...ye-freefall-3/

[Matternativ]

I don't think we'll agree on anything MCU Clint related, as I honestly think Renner would have made an amazing Clint had someone actually written Clint. I definitely don't judge whether actors physically suit the role after Hugh Jackman's Wolverine lol. But that's okay! We do seem to be on the same wavelength when it comes to the comics version.

I definitely agree about all the miss opportunities for Clint and Natasha recently. Even just seeing her thoughts on the Hulk situation (which I don't think we got) would have been very interesting, let alone them actually talking about it. and man, I am forever disappointed with how her resurrection was handled, both with her character personally, and her relationship with Clint. He would have been the perfect person to commiserate with about it, as you said, but also seeing how broken Clint was from her death to them just barely interacting and definitely never acknowledging anything unfinished between them doesn't feel right. I do have high hopes for Thompson's Widow run at least.

Well for the Hulk thing: We got that really bad Occupy Avengers scene were she's like "Get over it" and is pretty damn bitchy in general.
So yeah. That was a thing.
It was also the moment I realized the author had no interest in the story anymore most probably because cancellation was confirmed at that point.

[Snoop Dogg]

It's horny time!

[Matternativ]

Well that is very well timed. I hope that's not the extent of her appearance.

[Sneakronicity]

If this is all we see of her and it isn't some sort of ploy then I'm very displeased. I haven't liked how Rosenberg wrote Natasha in the past and this definitely doesn't change that.

[H-E-D]

MCUCosmic is speculating that Barney might be the villain of the Hawkeye series; I’d rather he assume a role more akin to the Fraction series. Maybe give him some connection to the Tracksuits but don’t have him as the villain. Bring on the Mime. Or Crossfire, I dunno.

In my opinion everything Thompson touches is either good or great. At least everything I have checked out so far.
But for a more nuanced answer: If you like light hearted, comedic books: absolutely.
And considering what you said about Fractions Hawkeye the other day I'm pretty sure you do.

West Coast Avengers was basically the sequel to her Bishop solo so I'd suggest you down switch the order when reading them.

I kinda hated everything Thompson did with Kate’s parents. Like, her mom being a vampire was beyond lame. Bringing back a dead parent is a tricky move as is, but vampires don’t vibe with Kate Bishop. Aside from that I really enjoyed her time on those books.

[Chris0013]

MCUCosmic is speculating that Barney might be the villain of the Hawkeye series; I’d rather he assume a role more akin to the Fraction series. Maybe give him some connection to the Tracksuits but don’t have him as the villain. Bring on the Mime. Or Crossfire, I dunno.

Agree...Barney as good guy...Crossfire as the baddie.

[Shadowcat]

If ForceWorks becomes an ongoing, I really hope Rosenberg writes both, and maybe bring Clint into the cast. It’d be nice seeing him interact with some of his Avenger buddies, and his ex, Bobbi.

[Matternativ]

If this is all we see of her and it isn't some sort of ploy then I'm very displeased. I haven't liked how Rosenberg wrote Natasha in the past and this definitely doesn't change that.

I'm largely not a huge fan of how she's been portrayed those last few years in general. From that Punisher-esque mini last year to the samnee book.
With Rosenberg I hope there is more to it because the letter she wrote Clint at the end of Tales of suspense betrayed her act (and even what she says in this preview).
But at the same time her solo is near so I doubt we'll get too deep into that in Freefall. At least not in the Ronin arc and after that it depends on how long the book is gonna go on.

MCUCosmic is speculating that Barney might be the villain of the Hawkeye series; I’d rather he assume a role more akin to the Fraction series. Maybe give him some connection to the Tracksuits but don’t have him as the villain. Bring on the Mime. Or Crossfire, I dunno.



I kinda hated everything Thompson did with Kate’s parents. Like, her mom being a vampire was beyond lame. Bringing back a dead parent is a tricky move as is, but vampires don’t vibe with Kate Bishop. Aside from that I really enjoyed her time on those books.

Agreed and agreed.
The parent storyline wasn't my favourite part but it didn't bother me.
And I hope Barney will be a good guy or if he isn't, then I hope he comes around to becoming one eventually.

If ForceWorks becomes an ongoing, I really hope Rosenberg writes both, and maybe bring Clint into the cast. It’d be nice seeing him interact with some of his Avenger buddies, and his ex, Bobbi.

I still haven't checked that out. I probably should.

[John Venus]

I, too, think Renner would have been an amazing Hawkeye if they wrote him more like 616 Hawkeye rather than Ultimate Hawkeye.

Though after Endgame I keep thinking Hawkeye should have died in AoU or Civil War. They've failed to do anything interesting with the character in the MCU.

[Matternativ]

I thought Civil War and Endgame were far and beyond his best showing so I disagree.