Clint Barton: Hawkeye Appreciation 2020

[OOTCS]

Yeah I love his introduction and team up with Nat.
While still weird and very "from it's time" I vastly prefer it to his first Comic with Bobbi later which felt very "Hello, yes I'm Love Interest-bir....I mean Mockingbird"

Nothing against Bobbi, I just don't much like her origin story haha.

Ahahaha, I feel like this is obviously bait, but I'm going to go ahead and take it anyway. Hawkeye (1983) isn't Mockingbird's origin story. She was already an established character from Astonishing Tales and Ka-Zar who had then gone on to star in an arc where she dug up major corruption in SHIELD. Yes, Gruenwald put her into the mini because he thought she and Clint would make a good couple, but she wasn't created in order to be Clint's love interest. In fact, her arc in the Hawkeye mini directly continues the one she had in earlier books. Once she turned over the evidence to Fury and got put into a coma by her fellow agents, she turned down a promotion at SHIELD in order to work on her own because that was what she was used to, and she continued investigating instances of corruption, which was what led her to CTE. At the end of Hawkeye, she says, "I'm not a joiner, but..." referencing all that solo time as the Huntress and the beginning of her time as Mockingbird, where she the one time she tried partnering with someone, he was killed, and she found it safer to work on her own.

[Frontier]

Ahahaha, I feel like this is obviously bait, but I'm going to go ahead and take it anyway. Hawkeye (1983) isn't Mockingbird's origin story. She was already an established character from Astonishing Tales and Ka-Zar who had then gone on to star in an arc where she dug up major corruption in SHIELD. Yes, Gruenwald put her into the mini because he thought she and Clint would make a good couple, but she wasn't created in order to be Clint's love interest. In fact, her arc in the Hawkeye mini directly continues the one she had in earlier books. Once she turned over the evidence to Fury and got put into a coma by her fellow agents, she turned down a promotion at SHIELD in order to work on her own because that was what she was used to, and she continued investigating instances of corruption, which was what led her to CTE. At the end of Hawkeye, she says, "I'm not a joiner, but..." referencing all that solo time as the Huntress and the beginning of her time as Mockingbird, where she the one time she tried partnering with someone, he was killed, and she found it safer to work on her own.

I wonder if Green Arrow and Black Canary were ever in the back of Grunewald's mind at the time.

[OOTCS]

I wonder if Green Arrow and Black Canary were ever in the back of Grunewald's mind at the time.

That's probably part of it, but here are Gruenwald's words from the introduction to the trade paperback:

In these pages, Hawk meets Mockingbird, a woman who turns his life around. Mockingbird is one of my own contributions to the Marvel mythos (with
creative input by fellow writer Steven Grant). Originally intended as a Spider-Woman nemesis, Mock fit the bill as an ideal counterpart to the maladjusted marksman athletic, brainy, and as sharp-tongued as Hawk himself. Hawk had always been unlucky in love, falling for one unattainable woman after another. I felt it was high time he had somebody hot for him. Mockingbird was a former spy, like the other great love of Hawkeye's life, and the idea of a Ph.D. in biology falling for a carnival archer who barely finished high school has a bizarre appeal to me.

The reference to creating Mockingbird is about Marvel Team-Up #95, where he was one of the editors and Steven Grant was the writer. They didn't create Bobbi Morse, but they did give her the Mockingbird name, the costume, and the battle staves. Again, this was in Marvel Team-Up, three years before the Hawkeye mini came out, and it was the end of an arc that had been begun by other writers in a different book.

[Matternativ]

Ahahaha, I feel like this is obviously bait, but I'm going to go ahead and take it anyway. Hawkeye (1983) isn't Mockingbird's origin story. She was already an established character from Astonishing Tales and Ka-Zar who had then gone on to star in an arc where she dug up major corruption in SHIELD. Yes, Gruenwald put her into the mini because he thought she and Clint would make a good couple, but she wasn't created in order to be Clint's love interest. In fact, her arc in the Hawkeye mini directly continues the one she had in earlier books. Once she turned over the evidence to Fury and got put into a coma by her fellow agents, she turned down a promotion at SHIELD in order to work on her own because that was what she was used to, and she continued investigating instances of corruption, which was what led her to CTE. At the end of Hawkeye, she says, "I'm not a joiner, but..." referencing all that solo time as the Huntress and the beginning of her time as Mockingbird, where she the one time she tried partnering with someone, he was killed, and she found it safer to work on her own.

It actually wasn't bait at all. Back when I read that comic someone told me (I think it was even in this very forum) that was her first appearance and since I don't read too many older comics I never really bothered to check whether that's true or not.

Mea Culpa. My b.

[Dermie]

Yeah I love his introduction and team up with Nat.
While still weird and very "from it's time" I vastly prefer it to his first Comic with Bobbi later which felt very "Hello, yes I'm Love Interest-bir....I mean Mockingbird"

Nothing against Bobbi, I just don't much like her origin story haha.

Blasphemy!! Gruenwald's HAWKEYE miniseries is one of my favourite Clint stories (and one of my favourite Bobbi stories too). Yes, it rushed Clint and Bobbi together romantically--but that was intentional; they were an impulsive, whirlwind romance that went from strangers to newlyweds in a matter of days. But its got great action for both of them; it grows out of both Clint's status quo at the time (as security chief of CTE) and Bobbi's previous storyline of her corruption investigations; and it gives Clint two additions for his personal rogues gallery--Crossfire and Oddball--which had been rather lacking since both Swordsman and Egghead were killed (and Swordsman had reformed anyway, and Egghead would also be linked more to Pym, despite Clint's grudge against him for Barney's alleged death). I keep hoping someone will bring back Sheila Danning--the CTE agent who seduced Clint to keep him distracted from what was really going on. She'd be a fun old foe to turn up and cross paths with Clint (or Bobbi) after all this time.

OOTCS has already cleared up your misconception about that mini being Mockingbird's first appearance, but just to provide a few more details... Bobbi Morse started out as a supporting player in Ka-Zar's book, where it came to be revealed that she was both a scientist and a SHIELD agent. After a brief romance with Ka-Zar, the two went their separate ways and Bobbi started investigating SHIELD corruption as a costumed crime fighter. She turned up next in a black-and-white story in MARVEL SUPER ACTION as the Huntress, but that identity was short-lived and then she appeared in MARVEL TEAM-UP where she made her debut as Mockingbird and had a run-in with Spider-Man as she finally wrapped up her investigation into SHIELD. That was her last appearance before turning up in HAWKEYE.

[Matternativ]

Blasphemy!! Gruenwald's HAWKEYE miniseries is one of my favourite Clint stories (and one of my favourite Bobbi stories too). Yes, it rushed Clint and Bobbi together romantically--but that was intentional; they were an impulsive, whirlwind romance that went from strangers to newlyweds in a matter of days. But its got great action for both of them; it grows out of both Clint's status quo at the time (as security chief of CTE) and Bobbi's previous storyline of her corruption investigations; and it gives Clint two additions for his personal rogues gallery--Crossfire and Oddball--which had been rather lacking since both Swordsman and Egghead were killed (and Swordsman had reformed anyway, and Egghead would also be linked more to Pym, despite Clint's grudge against him for Barney's alleged death). I keep hoping someone will bring back Sheila Danning--the CTE agent who seduced Clint to keep him distracted from what was really going on. She'd be a fun old foe to turn up and cross paths with Clint (or Bobbi) after all this time.

OOTCS has already cleared up your misconception about that mini being Mockingbird's first appearance, but just to provide a few more details... Bobbi Morse started out as a supporting player in Ka-Zar's book, where it came to be revealed that she was both a scientist and a SHIELD agent. After a brief romance with Ka-Zar, the two went their separate ways and Bobbi started investigating SHIELD corruption as a costumed crime fighter. She turned up next in a black-and-white story in MARVEL SUPER ACTION as the Huntress, but that identity was short-lived and then she appeared in MARVEL TEAM-UP where she made her debut as Mockingbird and had a run-in with Spider-Man as she finally wrapped up her investigation into SHIELD. That was her last appearance before turning up in HAWKEYE.

I mean you do you, I just didn't get much out of it although putting Crossfire in that position certainly has its value.

Clint could do with a real rival nowadays anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Crossfire didn't have a run in with him since Hawkeye and Mockingbird, did he?
And Barney was swiftly reformed.

I feel like lately their was an effort to make Bullseye his "nemesis" but I somehow doubt that will stick.

[chicago_bastard]

I feel like lately their was an effort to make Bullseye his "nemesis" but I somehow doubt that will stick.

That wouldn't work, Lester is far too much associated with Daredevil, I doubt that any hero could catch up on all the personal grudge Matt has against him.

[Matternativ]

That wouldn't work, Lester is far too much associated with Daredevil, I doubt that any hero could catch up on all the personal grudge Matt has against him.

Yea but between Generations, Freefall, Old Man Hawkeye and the multiple times they crossed paths during Dark Reign if you want to go back that far he certainly seems to be a candidate they like going for when Clint needs a Villain.

I did like that Hood as the actual big bad in Freefall had a very different power set and personality but I don't see him sticking around for immediate future stories either.

Conclusion: Clint needs a new character as his nemesis.

[Frontier]

A rivalry with Bullseye makes sense since they're both marksmen, but other than Bullseye pretending to be Hawkeye during Dark Reign it's never going to be as personal as it is with Daredevil.

[Matternativ]

A rivalry with Bullseye makes sense since they're both marksmen, but other than Bullseye pretending to be Hawkeye during Dark Reign it's never going to be as personal as it is with Daredevil.

I'd argue what happened in Freefall was even more so. But yeah no arguing that. It also feels "wrong" to steal a nemesis, haha.

[OOTCS]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Crossfire didn't have a run in with him since Hawkeye and Mockingbird, did he?

Crossfire was in Generations, but since that's a time travel story, I'm not sure if it counts. I think writers nowadays might be hesitant to use him, since his whole cheesy getup and comic book evil plans don't really match the costumeless, everyman vibe they've got going with Clint.

[Dermie]

I mean you do you, I just didn't get much out of it although putting Crossfire in that position certainly has its value.

Fair enough. I've just always had a lot of love for that book, but Hawkeye/Mockingbird are also my favourite superhero couple--so that certainly helps.

Clint could do with a real rival nowadays anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Crossfire didn't have a run in with him since Hawkeye and Mockingbird, did he?
And Barney was swiftly reformed.

I feel like lately their was an effort to make Bullseye his "nemesis" but I somehow doubt that will stick.

That was their last significant present-day confrontation, yes, although he turned up in big group scenes of villains in Bagalia during Clint's stint as leader of the Secret Avengers in Remender's run.

Although I did like what Fraction did with Barney in his HAWKEYE series it is a bit strange how quickly and thoroughly Barney was reformed. With Barney good and Oddball dead, Crossfire is really the main member of Clint's rogues gallery that is still around.

He has 'borrowed' a few others, such as Bullseye and The Hood in FREEFALL, and before that Helmut Zemo was carrying a major grudge against him over Clint putting Moonstone in a coma. But Zemo is always going to be more associated with Captain America. Bullseye is always going to be more associated with Daredevil (as he SHOULD be -- I hate the idea of the Dark Avengers members suddenly becoming rogues of the Avengers they posed as just because they happened to borrow their old clothes). The Hood has much more history as a "team" villain rather than a solo hero villain due to Bendis' work with him--but if they keep Hood at a more reasonable power level, he could be revamped into a solid Clint foe.

Crossfire was in Generations, but since that's a time travel story, I'm not sure if it counts. I think writers nowadays might be hesitant to use him, since his whole cheesy getup and comic book evil plans don't really match the costumeless, everyman vibe they've got going with Clint.

I'm not so sure about that. Crossfire's background is as a CIA operative, and apart from his cybernetic eye he doesn't really have any superpowers. You could take him out of the red and white costume, dress him in a more 'secret agent/tactical gear' type of outfit, and he's be the same villain he is now but with a look that is more in line with the 'no costume' approach.

Hopefully Clint isn't permanently locked into the costumeless direction anyway. FREEFALL had him in both his Ronin and classic Hawkeye costumes in addition to his current outfit (and a cameo by the Goliath outfit) and he also got out the classic suit for the "No Surrender" weekly AVENGERS book too, so its not like they've completely turned their back on the costume.

[Ruby Quartz Diamond]

I just want to ask you longtime Hawkeye fans. Was Ultimate Hawkeye the start of the era of a mask-less Clint Barton? Because I noticed that after 2011, the subsequent comic runs, modern cartoon and game adaptations all featured Clint's costume that seemed inspired by Ultimate Hawkeye and the MCU version.

Also, I borrowed the Avengers Hawkeye TPB from my local library and I couldnt stop re-reading Mark Gruenwald's long author's note about Clint/Hawkeye. You can easily tell that he really loves Hawkeye the character so much. He doesn't view Hawkeye as a "lesser" superhero despite of his seemingly ordinary abilities. And the fact that Hawkeye is based on Robin Hood is just so damn interesting tbh.

Aww yay! I hope you enjoy it! That one was really fun to write. And you should definitely write your own stuff! You could always start with AUs, as you don't need as much knowledge to riff on the characters with something else, or you could always do MCU or cartoon verse stuff until you're more comfortable. Ultimately though, fics are for fun and don't have to be 100% accurate, so just go for it!

I really enjoyed Clint's introduction, and I agree with how he's depicted. He starts off mostly just wanting fame and adoration, but while he bungled it it wasn't in a "he's so stupid" kind of way, it was just bad timing and a big misunderstanding. Then he falls for this mysterious woman and lets her lead him astray, but it doesn't change his nature so it doesn't last long. He still wants to be a hero, and he's cocky and determined enough to make it happen despite not having any powers. I love that about him.

Aww how sweet of you! I definitely need some knowledge so that I would know who would be the "safe" go-to characters to depict as a villain even in AU stories. From what I observe, Brock Rumlow and Barney Barton seem to be the most common choice in Clint-centric stories lol. Bobbi Morse too for the Clintasha stories but maybe I'll change it to Whitney Frost or Yelena. I'm currently working on WinterHawk first. That's the one I'm most motivated by atm.

Yeah that is what attracted to me about Clint Barton. His heart is always in the right place even when he was led astray in terms of motivation and direction. His nature is always wanting to help the little people because he used to be part of them and he feels that he is representing their voice.

Yeah I love his introduction and team up with Nat.
While still weird and very "from it's time" I vastly prefer it to his first Comic with Bobbi later which felt very "Hello, yes I'm Love Interest-bir....I mean Mockingbird"

Nothing against Bobbi, I just don't much like her origin story haha.

Oh I haven't actually read any of them. I'm not much of a shipper/romance focused person myself nor a fan fiction reader I'm afraid.

That is unless you count New Avengers Breakout, which is a book I grabbed once.
It's kinda weird in the way that it is a hybrid between a Storyline from Bendis New Avengers run merged with a very MCU-ish version of both Nat and Clint.
It very definitely felt like an officially licensed fanfic.

On one hand it's much easier to do this with Clint than say Iron Man or Thor because he only had a handful of solos and was usually a constant in his team books but on the other you really don't have to read everything to come up with a story. Not even Comic Book Writers do.
Gail Simone fairly recently tweeted that the big two don't really have an archive of their own anymore because the fan wikis have everything the writers end editors need and more.
So not even writers will go back and read through every comic for every book they get to write.

Err...Bendis. I don't really like him after the abomination that I read which is All-New X-Men. I hope Bendis didn't ruin Clint's character either and I hope that he has a soft spot for Clint too like most Marvel comic book writers.

[Matternativ]

Crossfire was in Generations, but since that's a time travel story, I'm not sure if it counts. I think writers nowadays might be hesitant to use him, since his whole cheesy getup and comic book evil plans don't really match the costumeless, everyman vibe they've got going with Clint.

Yeah I didn't count that but as pointed out above he did appearantly show up in secret avengers which I completely forgot.

Fair enough. I've just always had a lot of love for that book, but Hawkeye/Mockingbird are also my favourite superhero couple--so that certainly helps.



That was their last significant present-day confrontation, yes, although he turned up in big group scenes of villains in Bagalia during Clint's stint as leader of the Secret Avengers in Remender's run.

Although I did like what Fraction did with Barney in his HAWKEYE series it is a bit strange how quickly and thoroughly Barney was reformed. With Barney good and Oddball dead, Crossfire is really the main member of Clint's rogues gallery that is still around.

He has 'borrowed' a few others, such as Bullseye and The Hood in FREEFALL, and before that Helmut Zemo was carrying a major grudge against him over Clint putting Moonstone in a coma. But Zemo is always going to be more associated with Captain America. Bullseye is always going to be more associated with Daredevil (as he SHOULD be -- I hate the idea of the Dark Avengers members suddenly becoming rogues of the Avengers they posed as just because they happened to borrow their old clothes). The Hood has much more history as a "team" villain rather than a solo hero villain due to Bendis' work with him--but if they keep Hood at a more reasonable power level, he could be revamped into a solid Clint foe.



I'm not so sure about that. Crossfire's background is as a CIA operative, and apart from his cybernetic eye he doesn't really have any superpowers. You could take him out of the red and white costume, dress him in a more 'secret agent/tactical gear' type of outfit, and he's be the same villain he is now but with a look that is more in line with the 'no costume' approach.

Hopefully Clint isn't permanently locked into the costumeless direction anyway. FREEFALL had him in both his Ronin and classic Hawkeye costumes in addition to his current outfit (and a cameo by the Goliath outfit) and he also got out the classic suit for the "No Surrender" weekly AVENGERS book too, so its not like they've completely turned their back on the costume.

Honestly I like the idea of him having to go up against someone with an Iron Man-ish powerset where he has to use the right arrow at the right time, outsmart and out maneuver said villain and then find that one weak point.

It would showcase his athletic and strategic abilities while still giving writers lots of excuses to break his nose again, lol.
Also it would be a nice callback to his Origins.

As for Mockingbird and Clint: I enjoyed lots of their stories and interactions but am at rather neutral about them as a couple.

I was partial to his short-lived but fun as hell romance with Jess.

Other than that I always enjoyed him and Nat as a duo, romantic or otherwise.

I just want to ask you longtime Hawkeye fans. Was Ultimate Hawkeye the start of the era of a mask-less Clint Barton? Because I noticed that after 2011, the subsequent comic runs, modern cartoon and game adaptations all featured Clint's costume that seemed inspired by Ultimate Hawkeye and the MCU version.


Err...Bendis. I don't really like him after the abomination that I read which is All-New X-Men. I hope Bendis didn't ruin Clint's character either and I hope that he has a soft spot for Clint too like most Marvel comic book writers.

Kinda. MCU Clint was mostly based on Ultimate Hawkeye except much nicer but even Ultimate Hawkeye wore a masked outfit at times.

Oh Bendis loved Clint in the sense that he'll always be a factor in his stories but he definitely enjoyed putting him through the wringer.
Sometimes it works well: Ronin
Sometimes it really doesn't: Civil War 2.

I feel like you'd enjoy his take on the heroic age/avengers assemble Hawkeye more so than anything between Disassembled and Dark Reign.

[OOTCS]

I just want to ask you longtime Hawkeye fans. Was Ultimate Hawkeye the start of the era of a mask-less Clint Barton? Because I noticed that after 2011, the subsequent comic runs, modern cartoon and game adaptations all featured Clint's costume that seemed inspired by Ultimate Hawkeye and the MCU version.

His costume was updated in anticipation of the Avengers movie release in 2012, so I think the MCU was a bigger influence than Ultimate Hawkeye (although, like Matternativ said, the MCU Barton was inspired by Ultimate Barton, so there is a link). Interestingly, the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes interpretation of Hawkeye was also partially inspired by the Ultimate Universe, but he still wore his classic 616 costume there, even as a SHIELD agent.

Also, I borrowed the Avengers Hawkeye TPB from my local library and I couldnt stop re-reading Mark Gruenwald's long author's note about Clint/Hawkeye. You can easily tell that he really loves Hawkeye the character so much. He doesn't view Hawkeye as a "lesser" superhero despite of his seemingly ordinary abilities. And the fact that Hawkeye is based on Robin Hood is just so damn interesting tbh.

Yes! I love when creators write gushing letters about how much they love the characters they write. Jim McCann also has one if you've gotten ahold of the Hawkeye: Avenging Archer collection yet.

Err...Bendis. I don't really like him after the abomination that I read which is All-New X-Men. I hope Bendis didn't ruin Clint's character either and I hope that he has a soft spot for Clint too like most Marvel comic book writers.

Agreeing with Matt again that Bendis is hit or miss (especially on team books), and that the Ronin era was done well while Civil War II...the less said, the better. His New Avengers run feels more street level, which is Bendis's forte. It's an important time in Clint's history as a character (even though he doesn't join the team until issue 20-something), even though there are some ways that he acts that are inconsistent with his general characterization, but I think the extreme circumstances justify it.