Clint Barton: Hawkeye Appreciation 2020

[Eto]

Great issue.
How much do arrows cost? lmao.

[OOTCS]

Spoilers and theories ahead:

spoilers:

So Clint definitely has to be working with someone else here, right? Because he has rock-solid alibis for some of Ronin's attacks. So unless there's time travel involved, or he suddenly gained Multiple Man's powers, he's got to have a partner. And the partner has to be someone who moves the same way as he does. So here are the possibilities I've thought of: 1. Echo (Maya Lopez) - She's got a history with the Ronin identity, she's got a history with Clint, she hates corruption, and she has photographic reflexes. She's the obvious choice, except that someone on Twitter asked Rosenberg if she would be in the book, and his answer was an unambiguous no. 2. Taskmaster - He's got photographic reflexes, so he'd be able to make himself move like Clint, but why would he? Okay, he's a mercenary, so he would do it for money, but would Clint really want to work with someone he considers as bad as the people he's fighting against? 3. Barney - Zemo forced Trick Shot, who once trained Clint, to train Barney as well. So it makes sense that they would have some similar moves. However, Trick Shot was never a skilled fighter; he only taught them archery. Ronin isn't using a bow--he's using martial arts and a sword. So while it's an interesting prospect, the likelihood of the partner being Barney seems kind of low. 5. Linda Carter - I don't have any idea how this would work, but it would definitely be a twist. If she knows nothing about Clint being Ronin, then she doesn't seem to have much agency in this book. We don't really know anything about their relationship, like how long they've been dating, how they got together, or even what she likes about him (aside from his, ahem, assets). We haven't seen her in a professional capacity or in any role outside of being Clint's girlfriend. He's lying to her in a huge way, and she's smart enough to know that he's lying, but she's not trying very hard to find out the truth. So either their relationship is going to crash and burn soon, or we're about to be shocked out of our seats by the fact that she knew all along. The thing is, she was at the charity gala with him while Ronin was making trouble across town, so even if Linda is in on the plan, he'd still need to have another partner, and I don't see the point in Clint having two surprise partners in crime. 6. Steve Rogers - He taught Clint to fight, so it's realistic that they would have the same moves. On the other hand, I can't see Steve being involved in something like this in a million years. 7. Apparently, there's a character called Fateball who also has photographic reflexes. She appeared in three issues in a miniseries called Craptacular B-sides in 2002 and was later mentioned in a handbook in 2007. But at that point, it really might as well be Echo. 8. I mean, I don't know...Rogue? Mimic? Prodigy? Mysterio?

end of spoilers

So those are all the theories I've come up with. Anyone else have ideas?

[Snoop Dogg]

How was this even better than the first issue? Did Luke get his tacos? What is going on?!

[Zaresh]

Well, that issue was... was too good. Wow! I loved it.

I cannot say I didn't see it coming because the whole issue is kind of hinting at it; but still, the last page was well timed.
Honestly, at this point, I'm suffering that I won't see this published in trade format in my country in probably more than a year or a year and half. And I want it in Spanish in my physical format: I want my brother and friends to be able to read it fine. This wait is going to kill me.

This book is wonderful. Holy cow.

Spoilers time.

spoilers:

I do think there's some time traveling involved. But I also think Clint wasn't aware of who was under the mask until they came after him last issue. That's why he's working to kill two birsd at the same time: I'm not sure he's working working with RoninClint, helping him clean the city (for whatever reason Ronin seems to be doing that). But he's also trying to fix his messes (that are also his own) yet; but he's allowing him to do as he pleases until he does something very wrong. And as I mentioned, I think, by know Clint know how Ronin is. Also, I don't know if he's creating his own alibi by chance or he was actually attenting that gala because he wanted that alibi, because as I said, I'm not sure they're working together yet. So maybe the reason everyone though it was him is... because it was him all the time.

end of spoilers

Damn, this is so fun.

[Sneakronicity]

I feel like the only person who is not enjoying Freefall all that much. It's not that I dislike it, but I loved how Rosenberg wrote Clint in ToS so much that I had high expectations for this book, and have wound up feeling disappointed. I feel like it's teetering on the "Hawkguy" edge a little too much, and I don't tend to like when Clint is treated like the butt of the joke, which I very much felt like he was most of #2. I really want to like this book and am interested in the ending but I just can't really get into it.

[Zaresh]

I feel like the only person who is not enjoying Freefall all that much. It's not that I dislike it, but I loved how Rosenberg wrote Clint in ToS so much that I had high expectations for this book, and have wound up feeling disappointed. I feel like it's teetering on the "Hawkguy" edge a little too much, and I don't tend to like when Clint is treated like the butt of the joke, which I very much felt like he was most of #2. I really want to like this book and am interested in the ending but I just can't really get into it.

But remember:

spoilers:

he's Ronin, too. Clint is also the hipercompetent, superserious, mysterious antagonist. And he's probably overplaying his dumbness too (not the first time he does), not showing how much he knows or doesn't. He, as himself, does that twice for different effect in this issue: with Tony in the gala, and with the hospital big guys.

end of spoilers

[strathcona]

I feel like the only person who is not enjoying Freefall all that much. It's not that I dislike it, but I loved how Rosenberg wrote Clint in ToS so much that I had high expectations for this book, and have wound up feeling disappointed. I feel like it's teetering on the "Hawkguy" edge a little too much, and I don't tend to like when Clint is treated like the butt of the joke, which I very much felt like he was most of #2. I really want to like this book and am interested in the ending but I just can't really get into it.

I feel the same way. As I said about #1 and the way Falcon and Bucky treated Hawkeye, I feel it was more of the same this issue. Hawkeye has been one of the biggest, most public heroes since he joined the Avengers... it makes no sense for him to be treated this way constantly. But, I do want to see where that last page reveal is going.

[Dermie]

This issue left me with some mixed feelings. I was annoyed enough last issue with Sam and Bucky both assuming Ronin was Clint -- and then we repeat that nonsense again this issue with Luke Cage? After Sam and Bucky already investigated that? Come on. It was out of character for his friends and colleagues to just jump to that conclusion once. Doing it two issues in a row is not only repetitive, but doubles the amount of out of character writing.

The last page shocker...well, I am certainly looking forward to how that gets explained. The "how" is obviously a big question there...but there is also the "why", because if that situation is what it appears then we've got another character being written wildly out of character.

One thing that irked me a lot with this issue was Clint coming across like an idiot with his public speaking at the banquet, and his business meeting (just stealing quotes of what Luke said to him and presenting it as his own thoughts, etc), etc. Clint was team leader for both the Avengers (West Coast) and the Thunderbolts, and in both jobs did interviews with the media, etc. He knows how to do public speaking in an intelligent and coherent manner. To me, that portrayal came across as mangling Clint's character and making him look less intelligent and than he actually is for the sake of comedic purposes. That said, given some of the other twists going on in the story, its possible that behaviour was all an act on Clint's part. If that turns out to be the case, then I'l obviously withdraw my concerns about those scenes--but as it stands right now, it bothered me.

I was also a bit irked with him insulting some of his own teammates in that whole "I'm not the worst Avenger ever" conversation. Him name dropping Gilgamesh and Stingray isn't too bad...but the comment about Starfox's power is being a super-creep annoyed me. That wasn't called for and there are already too many "Starfox is a creep/rapist" jokes and comments out there, when there was already a storyline a few years back proving that's not true.

On the positive side the Clint/Linda/Stark scene was a lot of fun, and the story is definitely entertaining and I am intrigued to see where the latest twist is going. I've just got a few serious reservations about some of the characterization.

[K7P5V]

This issue left me with some mixed feelings. I was annoyed enough last issue with Sam and Bucky both assuming Ronin was Clint -- and then we repeat that nonsense again this issue with Luke Cage? After Sam and Bucky already investigated that? Come on. It was out of character for his friends and colleagues to just jump to that conclusion once. Doing it two issues in a row is not only repetitive, but doubles the amount of out of character writing.

The last page shocker...well, I am certainly looking forward to how that gets explained. The "how" is obviously a big question there...but there is also the "why", because if that situation is what it appears then we've got another character being written wildly out of character.

One thing that irked me a lot with this issue was Clint coming across like an idiot with his public speaking at the banquet, and his business meeting (just stealing quotes of what Luke said to him and presenting it as his own thoughts, etc), etc. Clint was team leader for both the Avengers (West Coast) and the Thunderbolts, and in both jobs did interviews with the media, etc. He knows how to do public speaking in an intelligent and coherent manner. To me, that portrayal came across as mangling Clint's character and making him look less intelligent and than he actually is for the sake of comedic purposes. That said, given some of the other twists going on in the story, its possible that behaviour was all an act on Clint's part. If that turns out to be the case, then I'l obviously withdraw my concerns about those scenes--but as it stands right now, it bothered me.

I was also a bit irked with him insulting some of his own teammates in that whole "I'm not the worst Avenger ever" conversation. Him name dropping Gilgamesh and Stingray isn't too bad...but the comment about Starfox's power is being a super-creep annoyed me. That wasn't called for and there are already too many "Starfox is a creep/rapist" jokes and comments out there, when there was already a storyline a few years back proving that's not true.

On the positive side the Clint/Linda/Stark scene was a lot of fun, and the story is definitely entertaining and I am intrigued to see where the latest twist is going. I've just got a few serious reservations about some of the characterization.

If Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes (Vol. 2) from 2007 is any indication, then there seems to be a fair amount of "putting on an act" in Clint's history:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Aveng...t_Heroes_Vol_2

[Matternativ]

This issue left me with some mixed feelings. I was annoyed enough last issue with Sam and Bucky both assuming Ronin was Clint -- and then we repeat that nonsense again this issue with Luke Cage? After Sam and Bucky already investigated that? Come on. It was out of character for his friends and colleagues to just jump to that conclusion once. Doing it two issues in a row is not only repetitive, but doubles the amount of out of character writing.

The last page shocker...well, I am certainly looking forward to how that gets explained. The "how" is obviously a big question there...but there is also the "why", because if that situation is what it appears then we've got another character being written wildly out of character.

One thing that irked me a lot with this issue was Clint coming across like an idiot with his public speaking at the banquet, and his business meeting (just stealing quotes of what Luke said to him and presenting it as his own thoughts, etc), etc. Clint was team leader for both the Avengers (West Coast) and the Thunderbolts, and in both jobs did interviews with the media, etc. He knows how to do public speaking in an intelligent and coherent manner. To me, that portrayal came across as mangling Clint's character and making him look less intelligent and than he actually is for the sake of comedic purposes. That said, given some of the other twists going on in the story, its possible that behaviour was all an act on Clint's part. If that turns out to be the case, then I'l obviously withdraw my concerns about those scenes--but as it stands right now, it bothered me.

I was also a bit irked with him insulting some of his own teammates in that whole "I'm not the worst Avenger ever" conversation. Him name dropping Gilgamesh and Stingray isn't too bad...but the comment about Starfox's power is being a super-creep annoyed me. That wasn't called for and there are already too many "Starfox is a creep/rapist" jokes and comments out there, when there was already a storyline a few years back proving that's not true.

On the positive side the Clint/Linda/Stark scene was a lot of fun, and the story is definitely entertaining and I am intrigued to see where the latest twist is going. I've just got a few serious reservations about some of the characterization.

I get those reservations but I think Rosenberg is playing a similar game as Kot die Back in Secret Avengers.

Weren't it for there being clearly more than meets the eye so far I'd feel the same.

spoilers:

I find the idea that there are two ronins running around intriguing but I'd actually prefer this being a solution Job and we get a good explanation on how he did it. LMD's would be the obvious first answer but someone like Bucky would have seen through that in about 3 seconds.

end of spoilers

[OOTCS]

I get those reservations but I think Rosenberg is playing a similar game as Kot die Back in Secret Avengers.

Weren't it for there being clearly more than meets the eye so far I'd feel the same.

spoilers:

I find the idea that there are two ronins running around intriguing but I'd actually prefer this being a solution Job and we get a good explanation on how he did it. LMD's would be the obvious first answer but someone like Bucky would have seen through that in about 3 seconds.

end of spoilers

Yeah, but remember, spoilers:

the second Ronin doesn't have to be someone who looks like Clint, it just has to be someone who moves like him. Since Ronin is covered from head to toe. That's why I think it's someone like Maya or Taskmaster.

end of spoilers

[Zaresh]

Yeah, but remember, spoilers:

the second Ronin doesn't have to be someone who looks like Clint, it just has to be someone who moves like him. Since Ronin is covered from head to toe. That's why I think it's someone like Maya or Taskmaster.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

It has to be a man, too, of similar build than him. At least his height, and Clint is a tall man. My working theory so far is that Clint got so obsessed about the Hood in the first iteration that he lost his girlfriend, his friends, probably some other people in the process, because a chain of bad choices, and decided to screw it all and time travel back (let's call this Clint "Fedup, kinda edgy and ansgty Clint"). Now, because Ronin is there, and Ronin is a distraction, Clint isn't going to obsess so much about the Hood and his attention is going to be divided between the mystery of Ronin and his "crusade" against Robbins's business. It wouldn't be the first, or the second, time that Clint gets involved in time-travel shenanigans. I would be open to this being the case (but I also love that sort of stories). That way, we could have true-current-Marvel616-Clint and edgemaster-depressive-MCU-Clint for a while. Because synergy or whatever.

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

I get those reservations but I think Rosenberg is playing a similar game as Kot die Back in Secret Avengers.

I'd love it if they officially retconned "Hawkguy" into an act Clint puts up to drive people away or just not be in the spotlight anymore.

I kinda miss Hawkeye the firebrand though. I mean, he's grown out of that guy, but I miss the attitude and the swagger.

[Matternativ]

Yeah, but remember, spoilers:

the second Ronin doesn't have to be someone who looks like Clint, it just has to be someone who moves like him. Since Ronin is covered from head to toe. That's why I think it's someone like Maya or Taskmaster.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Thing is: Why would someone with that ability move exactly like Clint does? He clearly doesn't like that he's been found out so if we assume they are his allies it would not make sense for them. If they are not his allies and they do it in purpose to frame him that's a different story but I dunno. That feels strange

end of spoilers

I'd love it if they officially retconned "Hawkguy" into an act Clint puts up to drive people away or just not be in the spotlight anymore.

I kinda miss Hawkeye the firebrand though. I mean, he's grown out of that guy, but I miss the attitude and the swagger.

Yeah I get that.
I mean it's obviously how Kot wrote him but many after him... kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet so to speak

[your_name_here]

Just got Fraction & Ajas run on Hawekeye. I read it when it first came out and am looking forward to the reread.
What do you guys think to it?