Batman #86 preview and discussion (spoilers!)

[phonogram12]

Yeah, likewise. He's never hooked me.

Yeah, every Bat-related thing he's ever done just comes off as really pedestrian to me.

[lilyrose]

It appears Catwoman is his full partner now.

And I guess people don't know anymore that Selina Kyle is Catwoman, since she can just appear in public on behalf of Bruce?

[Twice-named]

Haven’t read the issue but the reviews make it sound like Bruce is going to endeavor to improve Gotham apart from his activities as Batman. If this is true, I hope Tynion actually develops some plot threads that span through his run. This might make me pick up the book again. IIRC, the beginning of Snyder’s run talked about Bruce having a plan to improve Gotham but, unfortunately, it was never followed up on in any meaningful way.

[XJlock]

It is a shame that the fight between Batman and Deathstroke was off panel. Beside that, the issue was fine.

[nonsense man]

I read it and I like it even though it still has bruce and selina in a relationship they are actually talking normally and working well together with out bruce looking like a moron. This idea that bruce is rebuilding gotham so batman would not be needed is actually great. He is using all his resources not just the fisticuffs. He might have gotten wounded but the other guy deathstroke got it worst. Just going back to basics heck they showed the car in the means the bat is back and not acting weird like he was in the previous run

[Gotham citizen]

I read it and I like it even though it still has bruce and selina in a relationship they are actually talking normally and working well together with out bruce looking like a moron.

I don't think King will love see how many readers hate how his Bat/Cat relationship, after all his efforts to make them officially a couple. Anyway I agree, even if I prefer the kind of Bat/Cat relationship we saw in the Telltale games.

This idea that bruce is rebuilding gotham so batman would not be needed is actually destined to fail. He is wasting all his resources not just the fisticuffs.[…]

I'm bastard inside, I know.

[Tzigone]

Obviously, of course, Batman will still be needed, so long as there is a comic to sell. But count me firmly on the side that Gotham should improve over time (if you want to use the starting point of a particularly bad Gotham, rather than just general crime in the world). Maybe not enough, but there should be the general idea that things are better than they used to be. That Batman has made a difference. I'm not a fan of the idea of Batman having been at this job for 10+ years and Gotham still be just as corrupt a hellhole as it was on day one.

[Nite-Wing]

Why would you ever want to buy a Batman comic without Batman in it... That's the world you create when you start questioning why Bruce doesn't commit to act like his parents instead of forging his own path as Batman.
His parents failed, The city killed them and all the good they did amounted to nothing in the end
Bruce as we have seen in the glimpses of the future has failed too but that doesn't mean that Batman is a bad thing.

If anything I would take all the money and power away from Bruce and see what he can do for Gotham at that point

[Tzigone]

Bruce as we have seen in the glimpses of the future has failed too but that doesn't mean that Batman is a bad thing.

That doesn't work for me. It's depressing, and I don't like depressing. More than that, though, it means Bruce/Batman was a failure. Sure, you can say it'd be even worse without him or that it's the effort, not the outcome, that matters. But in the end, he fails to achieve his objective - making Gotham a better place. And all that he sacrificed and all the absolutely crappy things he subjected his family too (often in the name of his mission) didn't do any good. No thanks.

But then, I'm not a huge fan of the Gotham-has-always-been-crappy-place setup (especially, since at times it's been basically cursed or controlled by evil forces for centuries). A place with some bad and some good and Bruce setting out to stop criminals and keep other children from becoming orphans (rather than "save Gotham") is okay with me. Less dramatic, but more sustainable.

If anything I would take all the money and power away from Bruce and see what he can do for Gotham at that point

That's just not who Bruce Wayne is to me. I'll admit a degree of attachment to the familiar. And he's lost his money before, it never sticks. But I would like him to be less rich and powerful. More like the old days when he wasn't even in the top 100 richest in the world, but was still rich. Less powerful. Wayne Enterprise, as a company, came later in the mythos, really playing in in the bronze age. I'm quite happy to keep it and to keep the Waynes old money. But not like is often depicted in the more modern era. Not a household name, not in the top 100 biggest companies in country.

[Nite-Wing]

Imo the insane levels of money and power that Bruce has amassed is exactly proportionate to the level at which Batman has eclipsed Bruce Wayne as an identity.
The wealthier and more powerful he got the less writers want to actually touch his life outside of Batman. Its not very interesting or compelling and frankly I see too many mistakes in current continuity with writers messing up how the immense supporting cast and Batman Family fit into his non costumed orbit anymore.

Marvel used to have this problem with Spider-man before they basically just settled to sweeping status quo changes every few years
Right now Bruce only has to deal with Alfred and Commisioner Gordon being gone not as big as losing his secret identity or access to his fortune

[Tzigone]

Imo the insane levels of money and power that Bruce has amassed is exactly proportionate to the level at which Batman has eclipsed Bruce Wayne as an identity.
The wealthier and more powerful he got the less writers want to actually touch his life outside of Batman.

I don't know if they are proportionate, but both are changes I dislike and would like to see rolled back. Less crazy-rich and more civilians. I miss civilian supporting casts in comics. People who aren't part of the fight. I do think the idea of Bruce actually working at WE is interesting and would be a good way to give him some civilians around and hit his Bruce-life more*. But that's Bruce working at WE, not doing Batman-work via WE. It shouldn't be about achieving Batgoals. But I want to see more of real-guy Bruce, rather than Batman-without-a-mask or Brucie.

I do think both of these changes are tied to making Batman more single-mindedly driven. Obsessed, even. The money is a tool for furthering enabling that obsession (and definitely play into Batgod to me). The emotional isolation is also so much higher in modern Batman comics. Of course, they also add more Batfam for the $$$, so there's a definite lack of consistency in emotional interplay (same also somewhat true for the relationship with Clark - it's good or bad depending on what the writer needs). Live-action hangs on the isolation aspect hard, though. Think that likely affects general perception that Batman should be alone and all fam (save Gordon and Alfred) ditched and all there shouldn't be long-term civilian supporting cast, either.

* Not the only way to have a Bruce-life - he managed to do some of that before the company. Just a possible way.

[millernumber1]

Also Deathstroke should not be someone Bruce can just take down in a 1 on 1 brawl, though I know it happens, but having most of the fight happen off panel was an interesting choice.

But haven't you heard? Tynion hates Batman, and only uses him to prop up the other characters! (Man, do I NOT miss the Tec memes.)

[Scott Taylor]

Mundane mundane mundane. Not scary (where's the horror, in Batman's grim expression? The fact that he called Lucious Alfred accidentally?) at all. Always nice to see Slade, but hilarious that he's basically Kiteman in this issue.

Oh woe is me. Going to wait this run out. Batman just got cliche grim dark again.

[TravelerInTheDark]

Boring. Tynion's Batman always feels like complete auto-pilot to me. Same with his Catwoman here.

I understand why DC put such a safe, by-the-numbers writer on the Batman title after the controversy of King, but I personally don't like it. Hopefully we get another exciting and original writer on the title after this little transitory stint.

[Nero]

Batman 86 is a solid issue. In fact, it's what I expected from Tynion. I'm not overrating Tynion, he's a solid writer but despite that, he gets Batman in ways the previous writer didn't. Prime example, Tynion's Batman thinks and feels like a human. The panels where Batman made the mistake of referring to Lucius as Alfred and Batman being reminded that Alfred was not there spoke more volumes than anything I saw in Batman 83. I also welcome back the thought boxes, it's always a treat to get inside the mind of the World's Greatest Detective. The only knock I have with Batman 86 is how Batman dealt with the villains especially Deathstroke.

I mean, Gunsmith and Mr. Teeth were just introduced and they along with Cheshire and Meryln were taken out by Batman like an afterthought. And then there's the off panel fight between Batman and Deathstroke. I have no problem with Batman winning because it's his book but I want to see it all in its entirety. So I'm hoping (and suspect) all of what happened is part of the villains' plan because I would like to see them flourished out better. But other than that, Tynion is off to a good start.