Shazam #13 Confirms the Return of *Redacted*

[voidox]

inb4 it's not actually Prime and it's just an illusion or fakeout or something.

but guess it's time for things to be killed to death.

[Denirac]

inb4 it's not actually Prime and it's just an illusion or fakeout or something.

but guess it's time for things to be killed to death.

It's him. Tied to Scott Snyder breaking the Source Wall in Metal, Prime is Free

[achilles]

The ONLY way I can see Billy and family being able to defeat SBP is if Billy still has access to his "God tier" powers from Darkseid War, and even then it may not be enough.

This is kind of my problem with DC's ever escalating new most powerful villain sweepstakes. The AM first. Okay, that worked to varying degrees according to your taste, (but it's worth noting that COIE is still the standard for events). Then we have others like the very silly Imperiex. Dr. Manhattan. Now we've got the even more powerful Perpetua, (come on DC, stop hiring two year olds to come up with bad guy names). And of course Prime, suddenly a bad guy because Johns wanted to troll fans, and suddenly powerful enough that he's basically unbeatable.

I mean if you keep on discovering new bad guys never before mentioned who just happen to be even more powerful than anyone before...it just loses its punch and descends into extreme silliness. I would also call it lazy writing. I get the feeling that you have to constantly top yourself, but really a better way would be to put actual thought into it and come up with stories that are great without having to rely on gimmicks and shortcuts.

And while they're at it, STOP giving Lex Luthor superpowers!

[Mr.B]

Deathed to kill.

[mikelmcknight72]

I want the good, pre-Infinite Crisis version restored. Preferably, he could lead an Exiles-style team A DC Exiles-style book would be a lot of fun.

[phantom1592]

I want the good, pre-Infinite Crisis version restored. Preferably, he could lead an Exiles-style team A DC Exiles-style book would be a lot of fun.

I don't think there IS a 'good' pre-crisis version. We're talking about a kid who we saw gain powers and immediately disappear. He may have been on the good side to save the universe... but there is no guarantee at all that his power wouldn't have corrupted him. Frankly most teens with god like powers WOULD go evil. honestly there wasn't enough of pre-crisis superboy prime shown for me to actually miss him. it's not like corrupting E-2 Superman... Earth Prime was pretty much a blank slate.

[docmidnite]

Just a quick history lesson. In his first ever appearance he was just the Earth Prime Clark Kent who got to meet Julius Schwatrz in a tribute comic to Schwatz. (Earth Prime was/is home to the writers and an allegory for the real world)

Then during CoIE he was brought back in DC Special #27 and given super powers becoming SBP where he was recruited by Superman. By the end of CoIE he was put into a “heaven” made up of the remaining energy of the Multiverse along side E-2 Superman, Lois and Alexander Luthor.

Then Infinite Crisis: Secret Origin by Marv Wolfman it was revealed that the “heaven” they were sent to was really a living hell that had a negative impact on each of them. That’s when Alexander started plotting after seeing SBP effecting the wall that was made up of the energy of the old Multiverse because he was from the same Earth as the writers.

You guys know the rest…

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[mikelmcknight72]

I don't think there IS a 'good' pre-crisis version. We're talking about a kid who we saw gain powers and immediately disappear. He may have been on the good side to save the universe... but there is no guarantee at all that his power wouldn't have corrupted him. Frankly most teens with god like powers WOULD go evil. honestly there wasn't enough of pre-crisis superboy prime shown for me to actually miss him. it's not like corrupting E-2 Superman... Earth Prime was pretty much a blank slate.

No, he was definitely good before his re-introduction. Its is more like the isolation, his youth, and the loss of his entire universe unhinged him. So, arguably, there could still be the original, heroci Earth Prime pre-Crisis version could still be out there.

[manwhohaseverything]

I want the good, pre-Infinite Crisis version restored. Preferably, he could lead an Exiles-style team A DC Exiles-style book would be a lot of fun.

Me too. I am glad, i am not the only one who wants that.

[phantom1592]

No, he was definitely good before his re-introduction. Its is more like the isolation, his youth, and the loss of his entire universe unhinged him. So, arguably, there could still be the original, heroci Earth Prime pre-Crisis version could still be out there.

Well, that's kind of my point. He tried to do good... and didn't like the results He was 'good' for like what? 2 issues? Then saw that it cost him everything and the world turned out like crap... His prison may not be the kind of thing he can 'get over'... it may just be part of his personal journey. Kind of like how Black Adam or Darth Vader was 'a hero' before they went Dark.

Personally, I'd rather see them work with what they have then arbitrarily bring him back... we have enough 'good supermen'. He won't bring anything to the table that Superman, Superboy, Supergirl, Power Girl, etc bring... but if they can get him over the angst and whininess then he could be a pretty cool character.

Heck, while I'm not a big fan of Power Girl... I think he's the PERFECT enemy for her. They both are the last survivors of their universe... one is adjusting, the other is resentful... could be a good dynamic.

But he just had too little exposure for me to 'miss' the old version. We didn't LOSE much with by 'going evil', it just feels like a progression.

Now Earth-1 Clark Kent/Superboy… THAT I miss and want brought back... but Earth Prime? I'd rather see where he can go. Especially with the original idea that this was pre-crisis power levels the like that Post-crisis couldn't imagine... I love pre-crisis superpowers.

[manwhohaseverything]

Personally, I'd rather see them work with what they have then arbitrarily bring him back... we have enough 'good supermen'. He won't bring anything to the table that Superman, Superboy, Supergirl, Power Girl, etc bring... but if they can get him over the angst and whininess then he could be a pretty cool character.

I disagree , we don't have enough good supermen. I mean, we churn out more evil ones than good now. Honestly, it's kind of annoying. As for poweset, i think being a meta storytelling wise superboy would be what i want superboy to be. Not another evil superman. He would be like professor paradox from ben 10.Someone who sees the stories itself.

[justinslot]

I don't think I realized before this thread that Prime was created during Crisis. My assumption had been that he must have been a significant figure in some 70s alternate Superman tales or something but no, DC created him during Crisis, made him important enough to survive Crisis, and then forgot about him for twenty years.

Like...does anyone understand what the intention was here? Did they just want an Earth-Prime survivor, or were they planning on using him to fill the Superboy-sized hole in post-Crisis Superman's history, but plans changed and he was abandoned?

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't think I realized before this thread that Prime was created during Crisis. My assumption had been that he must have been a significant figure in some 70s alternate Superman tales or something but no, DC created him during Crisis, made him important enough to survive Crisis, and then forgot about him for twenty years.

Like...does anyone understand what the intention was here? Did they just want an Earth-Prime survivor, or were they planning on using him to fill the Superboy-sized hole in post-Crisis Superman's history, but plans changed and he was abandoned?

No, he was created before crisis. But, was used prominently and famously in that. The thing is superboy couldn't be used in postcrisis era no matter what,due to the law suit by the superman creators family.

[lemonpeace]

I want the good, pre-Infinite Crisis version restored. Preferably, he could lead an Exiles-style team A DC Exiles-style book would be a lot of fun.

why would you need yet another Superman or Superboy to do that story tho? There are 5+ super-characters of the top of my head (including the original one) that story could be told with. that's the thing, "restoring" or "redeeming" Prime is not a sustainable idea because it's redundant given the evolution of the character and is just circular storytelling. what's his angle when you take away his role as an antagonist? he's the even more powerful but still super good Superman that may or may not have been a decent kid but spent years and years living in pettiness and killing intent, so he's grittier i guess? What Superboy-Prime represents (the toxic fan) would be undercut trying to play into that angle because you shouldn't be empathizing with him anymore in the first place. he had a chance to do good and because of his entitlement complex and because he felt slighted, he continuously chose to hurt others and do wrong. he represents the extremity of why we shouldn't act or think like that, and because he represents that extremity, pretending that kind of behavior on that scale can be washed away because he's "cool" and powerful but "like super good now" and so we can root for him now undercuts the point of that character. in order to not be constantly undercutting the point of what he was back then, you'd have to just make no references to his villainous streak in order to sell that character, and which point he's just Superboy #4 or Superman #5. whatever idea that could possibly be done with that kind of character would be better suited to one of the other 4+ Superman characters or the dozens of Superman-adjacent characters. When you have a character that interchangeable, you get in a situation where you have to look for an edge to keep readers interested and to distinguish the character. so (if you're a competent storyteller) you dig into what the character's done and see how you can play with that and, given his history, you'd likely end up with a handful of mediocre stories where he's a shell of a Superman before they inevitably set him back to being petty and spiteful like he was in his most recognizable appearances; right back where we started, circular storytelling.

[docmidnite]

Well, that's kind of my point. He tried to do good... and didn't like the results He was 'good' for like what? 2 issues? Then saw that it cost him everything and the world turned out like crap... His prison may not be the kind of thing he can 'get over'... it may just be part of his personal journey. Kind of like how Black Adam or Darth Vader was 'a hero' before they went Dark.

Personally, I'd rather see them work with what they have then arbitrarily bring him back... we have enough 'good supermen'. He won't bring anything to the table that Superman, Superboy, Supergirl, Power Girl, etc bring... but if they can get him over the angst and whininess then he could be a pretty cool character.

Heck, while I'm not a big fan of Power Girl... I think he's the PERFECT enemy for her. They both are the last survivors of their universe... one is adjusting, the other is resentful... could be a good dynamic.

But he just had too little exposure for me to 'miss' the old version. We didn't LOSE much with by 'going evil', it just feels like a progression.

Now Earth-1 Clark Kent/Superboy… THAT I miss and want brought back... but Earth Prime? I'd rather see where he can go. Especially with the original idea that this was pre-crisis power levels the like that Post-crisis couldn't imagine... I love pre-crisis superpowers.

Exactly. He spent literally 2 pages fighting the Anti Monitor in CoIE after gaining his powers and being recruited by Superman. Then he spent over 20 years in hell suffering and watching those around him suffer all for a world that was more grim and dark than the worlds he was recruited and failed to save in the first place.

Then he accidentally killed Pantha because he didn’t have a full grasp of his powers during his fight with the auxiliary Titans, that led to them increasing their attack on him, which was what finally pushed him over the edge with no turning back.

SBP’s been through too much to go back to being the everyday kid that got to meet Julius Schwartz.