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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    He's not a hero, dude. He represents the toxic fanboys that are out there. And he is not saving anything, either.
    Why? Cause a stupid story called infinite crisis says so? Give me a break, am i supposed to hate wally west because of hic. Have you even read crisis on infinite earths? Prime lost his world and everything he knew. Yet, still he was optimistic enough to go with goldenage clois. Goldenage clois became his ma and pa.
    He will be back to saving people. If harley the murderer extraordinaire can be "hero". Prime can as well.

  2. #47
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    Could have Earth prime Superman and pre crisis Earth 5 Batman teaming up.

  3. #48
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why? Cause a stupid story called infinite crisis says so? Give me a break, am i supposed to hate wally west because of hic. Have you even read crisis on infinite earths? Prime lost his world and everything he knew. Yet, still he was optimistic enough to go with goldenage clois. Goldenage clois became his ma and pa.
    He will be back to saving people. If harley the murderer extraordinaire can be "hero". Prime can as well.
    eh, the minute he slaughtered a sloft of the hero community then teamed up with the Anti-Moniter and the Sinestro Corp, any hope of Prime being a hero went down the toilet. he teamed up with Golden-age Sups because he was immature and naive, and ultimately he betrayed him by teaming with Alexander and going with his plan; my guy literally beat silverfox Superman to death.

    Harley is a murderer sure, but she has an out being mentally I'll and abused by Joker into that life style, she is not nearly on the scale of killer as Prime, who did what he did out of some immature self-righteousness; it's simply impossible to spin. Plus, what purpose could they possibly have for Prime (one of DC's most notorious and dangerous villains) to be reformed? to have another Superman? just because? to contrast him to Harley again, no one is misguidedly looking at him as someone they relate to, so his redemption serves no purpose. comparing Harley to Prime is like comparing you local crips to the nazi regime, sure their both doing dirty but one is clearly more justifiable than the other.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 01-05-2020 at 11:04 PM.
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  4. #49
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    eh, the minute he slaughtered a sloft of the hero community then teamed up with the Anti-Moniter and the Sinestro Corp, any hope of Prime being a hero went down the toilet. he teamed up with Golden-age Sups because he was immature and naive, and ultimately he betrayed him by teaming with Alexander and going with his plan; my guy literally beat silverfox Superman to death.

    Harley is a murderer sure, but she has an out being mentally I'll and abused by Joker into that life style, she is not nearly on the scale of killer as Prime, who did what he did out of some immature self-righteousness; it's simply impossible to spin. Plus, what purpose could they possibly have for Prime (one of DC's most notorious and dangerous villains) to be reformed? to have another Superman? just because? to contrast him to Harley again, no one is misguidedly looking at him as someone they relate to, so his redemption serves no purpose. comparing Harley to Prime is like comparing you local crips to the nazi regime, sure their both doing dirty but one is clearly more justifiable than the other.
    One word - retcon. Hal Jordan got "redeemed",this is comics. Anyone can and will turn face. Death in comics has been killed by death of superman.
    No, harley quinn isn't justifiable. She is "good" cause she sells. Plain and simple. You can use the same logic for prime, regarding mental stability . Wally man-slaughtered a bunch of heroes . He didn't team up, he went with him to live with him. Their relationship was supposed to be like father and son. That should have been the end of it. Infinite crisis just poured water all over goldenage superman.yes,superboy prime was immature. But, he was always a superboy,at the end of the day. he was never the psychotic mass murderer before the story. Btw harley is a psychotic mass murderer. She was part of every murder spree of joker. That makes her an accomplice and part of the crime through conspiracy. In some places people who are part of criminal conspiracy get the same punishment as the culprit himself. If joker deserves death sentence, then harley does as well. I could never taker infinite crisis, seriously. It was a stupid defence of postcrisis world. Yet, johnes himself gave postcrisis superman parts of silverage kalel, like his adventures as Superboy and with legion.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-06-2020 at 01:45 AM.

  5. #50
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    I mean, Alexander Luthor Jr. has been in like 100 issues already. (Death, rebirth, Darkseid lives in his body.)

    Give Prime some time!
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why? Cause a stupid story called infinite crisis says so? Give me a break, am i supposed to hate wally west because of hic. Have you even read crisis on infinite earths? Prime lost his world and everything he knew. Yet, still he was optimistic enough to go with goldenage clois. Goldenage clois became his ma and pa.
    He will be back to saving people. If harley the murderer extraordinaire can be "hero". Prime can as well.
    We're a long way away from that version of Prime.

  7. #52
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    One word - retcon. Hal Jordan got "redeemed",this is comics. Anyone can and will turn face. Death in comics has been killed by death of superman.
    No, harley quinn isn't justifiable. She is "good" cause she sells. Plain and simple. You can use the same logic for prime, regarding mental stability . Wally man-slaughtered a bunch of heroes . He didn't team up, he went with him to live with him. Their relationship was supposed to be like father and son. That should have been the end of it. Infinite crisis just poured water all over goldenage superman.yes,superboy prime was immature. But, he was always a superboy,at the end of the day. he was never the psychotic mass murderer before the story. Btw harley is a psychotic mass murderer. She was part of every murder spree of joker. That makes her an accomplice and part of the crime through conspiracy. In some places people who are part of criminal conspiracy get the same punishment as the culprit himself. If joker deserves death sentence, then harley does as well. I could never taker infinite crisis, seriously. It was a stupid defence of postcrisis world. Yet, johnes himself gave postcrisis superman parts of silverage kalel, like his adventures as Superboy and with legion.
    ay man, believe what you want but I'm telling you, there is no incentive or logical narrative reason to "redeem" Prime. Hal only got his redemption because Johns was a massive silver age fan and happened to be in the position to retcon it and have a pretty compelling story around the heel-turn that sold super well; plus they were already teasing at the idea that Hal was still somewhat heroic during his tenure as Parallax. Prime don't have that, he's been a thoroughly despicable character longer and more consistently than he's been sympathetic, that's the image most if not all fans and writers have in their head. Prime just works better as a cautionary tale of how bad Superman could've turned out to than just another Superman from out in the multiverse.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 01-06-2020 at 09:41 PM.
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  8. #53
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    ay man, believe what you want but I'm telling you, there is no incentive or logical narrative reason to "redeem" Prime. Hal only got his redemption because Johns was a massive silver age fan and happened to be in the position to retcon it and have a pretty compelling story around the heel-turn that sold super well; plus they were already teasing at the idea that Hal wasn't still somewhat heroic during his Parallax. Prime don't have that, he's been a thoroughly despicable character longer and more consistently than he's been sympathetic, that the image most if not all fans and writers have in their head. Prime just works better as a cautionary tale of how bad Superman could've turned out to than just another Superman from out in the multiverse.
    Indeed. During his ternure as Parallax, Hal Jordan was considered as an Magneto like villian, a character who was a villian but had certain noble yet egoist intentions. He did blame anyone but himself for his faults (they retconed that later, but in that moment nobody knew that). Prime only had one moment like that, meanwhile Hal had a lot of his existence as Parallax haunted by his actions. He did penance, thanks to two events (Final Night and Day of Judgment) and his reconstruction was a road long and precise. It was not the typical "sorry, everything is forgiven". It took time.
    Also Hal Jordan had a whole history of publications. Superboy Prime appeared only for five issues. He was created to die. And in some way he did it in 1985.

    It is sad how he developted after his return, and maybe would had been he would had stayed forgotten, but most of his existence Superboy Prime has been this obnoxious villian. He is a failed Superman. Nostalgia going sour. Maybe he could be redeemed, but that would happen when DC decides to put an end to SP existence.
    "Words change our spirits, but we also change the spirit of the words "

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Why? Cause a stupid story called infinite crisis says so? Give me a break, am i supposed to hate wally west because of hic. Have you even read crisis on infinite earths? Prime lost his world and everything he knew. Yet, still he was optimistic enough to go with goldenage clois. Goldenage clois became his ma and pa.
    He will be back to saving people. If harley the murderer extraordinaire can be "hero". Prime can as well.
    Yes, because a "stupid story" said so. Also, there have been "evil" versions of Superman before, so why do you care so much about Superboy Prime being "the bully" of the DCU? If the character gets redeemed, fine. Until then, SBP is a VILLAIN. And btw? The difference between Wally and SBP is that, unlike SPB, you can understand how Wally losing his family "broke" him. Not so much with SPB, who only wanted to force others to respect him simply because he happened to be a version of OUR Superman. That, and the fact that he didn't learn a thing (unlike Wally, who is attempting to redeem himself).

    Again, until SBP redeems himself, right now, he's a villain.

  10. #55
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    I do wonder how the SHAZAM! family is going to stop SBP, considering how OP the character is, even in the DCU...

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    ay man, believe what you want but I'm telling you, there is no incentive or logical narrative reason to "redeem" Prime. Hal only got his redemption because Johns was a massive silver age fan and happened to be in the position to retcon it and have a pretty compelling story around the heel-turn that sold super well; plus they were already teasing at the idea that Hal was still somewhat heroic during his tenure as Parallax. Prime don't have that, he's been a thoroughly despicable character longer and more consistently than he's been sympathetic, that's the image most if not all fans and writers have in their head. Prime just works better as a cautionary tale of how bad Superman could've turned out to than just another Superman from out in the multiverse.
    No, i am just rebutting the notion that superboy prime can't be redeemed. Superboy had these moments of clarity. The character just lost control of his powers. No, superboy Prime doesn't work as a cautionary tale. I already have that in red son. I am done woth supermen turning evil for stupid cautionary stories. These guys lack serious originality. Turn batman a villain for once.A real villain. And not joker.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Yes, because a "stupid story" said so. Also, there have been "evil" versions of Superman before, so why do you care so much about Superboy Prime being "the bully" of the DCU? If the character gets redeemed, fine. Until then, SBP is a VILLAIN. And btw? The difference between Wally and SBP is that, unlike SPB, you can understand how Wally losing his family "broke" him. Not so much with SPB, who only wanted to force others to respect him simply because he happened to be a version of OUR Superman. That, and the fact that he didn't learn a thing (unlike Wally, who is attempting to redeem himself).

    Again, until SBP redeems himself, right now, he's a villain.
    Because superboy prime was one of my favourite parts of crisis on infinite earths. He is the legacy of the original superboy and goldenage superman. His and goldenage superman's treatment in that idiotic story quiet frankly pissed me off. I put it down immediately.
    Already rebutted the villain nonsense. Anyone can turn face and heel. Wally learned squat. He is running around, alone wallowing in self pity. Hal learned squat. They all just put the blame on others. Harley learned that dating a mass murderer and being his accomplice is bad. Wow! What a great learn? Please,give me a break.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Because superboy prime was one of my favourite parts of crisis on infinite earths. He is the legacy of the original superboy and goldenage superman. His and goldenage superman's treatment in that idiotic story quiet frankly pissed me off. I put it down immediately.
    Already rebutted the villain nonsense. Anyone can turn face and heel. Wally learned squat. He is running around, alone wallowing in self pity. Hal learned squat. They all just put the blame on others. Harley learned that dating a mass murderer and being his accomplice is bad. Wow! What a great learn? Please,give me a break.
    SBP isn't "Superman as a boy", nor is he Jon or Kon-El. SBP was never a member of the Legion of Superheroes either. He is his own character, and should be seen as such, not an extension of the hero known as Superman, no matter the era. BTW? Getting hung up on characters that got nerfed by the editorial board at DC isn't going to change a thing, so why get so hung up about any thing about this? Again, if SBP gets redeemed, fine. But getting so worked up a fictional character, favorite or not, is silly. And besides, maybe SBP being back WILL eventually lead the character's redemption. Personally, I am more interested in what will be than what is.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    SBP isn't "Superman as a boy", nor is he Jon or Kon-El. SBP was never a member of the Legion of Superheroes either. He is his own character, and should be seen as such, not an extension of the hero known as Superman, no matter the era. BTW? Getting hung up on characters that got nerfed by the editorial board at DC isn't going to change a thing, so why get so hung up about any thing about this? Again, if SBP gets redeemed, fine. But getting so worked up a fictional character, favorite or not, is silly. And besides, maybe SBP being back WILL eventually lead the character's redemption. Personally, I am more interested in what will be than what is.
    He is similar to jon in that he was a fan of comics while jon loves mangas. Superboy doesn't need the legion to be that. He is an extention of superman no matter how you cut it. He wears the s on his chest. He was taken in by clark . He is the son of jerry and jor el. I am not worked up. Superboy was not intended to be a voice of toxic fandom or whatever. I hope this time he actually gets to be his oldself. It gets boring seeing all these evil supermen. If postcrisis continuity had problems it's not the fans that is the problem, It's company's problem.Don't use old characters and shit on them just to justify yourself. At the very least geoff johns took responsibility for new52 dcyou when doomsday clock started.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-07-2020 at 07:01 AM.

  15. #60
    Sun of the Mourning Montressor's Avatar
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    Take my money, DC.
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