Shazam #13 Confirms the Return of *Redacted*

[Frontier]

why would you need yet another Superman or Superboy to do that story tho? There are 5+ super-characters of the top of my head (including the original one) that story could be told with. that's the thing, "restoring" or "redeeming" Prime is not a sustainable idea because it's redundant given the evolution of the character and is just circular storytelling. what's his angle when you take away his role as an antagonist? he's the even more powerful but still super good Superman that may or may not have been a decent kid but spent years and years living in pettiness and killing intent, so he's grittier i guess? What Superboy-Prime represents (the toxic fan) would be undercut trying to play into that angle because you shouldn't be empathizing with him anymore in the first place. he had a chance to do good and because of his entitlement complex and because he felt slighted, he continuously chose to hurt others and do wrong. he represents the extremity of why we shouldn't act or think like that, and because he represents that extremity, pretending that kind of behavior on that scale can be washed away because he's "cool" and powerful but "like super good now" and so we can root for him now undercuts the point of that character. in order to not be constantly undercutting the point of what he was back then, you'd have to just make no references to his villainous streak in order to sell that character, and which point he's just Superboy #4 or Superman #5. whatever idea that could possibly be done with that kind of character would be better suited to one of the other 4+ Superman characters or the dozens of Superman-adjacent characters. When you have a character that interchangeable, you get in a situation where you have to look for an edge to keep readers interested and to distinguish the character. so (if you're a competent storyteller) you dig into what the character's done and see how you can play with that and, given his history, you'd likely end up with a handful of mediocre stories where he's a shell of a Superman before they inevitably set him back to being petty and spiteful like he was in his most recognizable appearances; right back where we started, circular storytelling.

I think Prime's initial premise of being Superboy in a "real" world had promise, like in Kurt Busiek's Superman: Secret Identity series.

[docmidnite]

I think Prime's initial premise of being Superboy in a "real" world had promise, like in Kurt Busiek's Superman: Secret Identity series.

His initial premise was being the Earth Prime Clark Kent. A regular kid who got to meet Julius Schwatrz in a tribute comic to Schwatz. (Earth Prime was/is home to the writers and an allegory for the real world)

It wasn’t until during CoIE he was brought back in DC Special #27 and given super powers becoming SBP where he was recruited by Superman in one issue.

[achilles]

Well, that's kind of my point. He tried to do good... and didn't like the results He was 'good' for like what? 2 issues? Then saw that it cost him everything and the world turned out like crap... His prison may not be the kind of thing he can 'get over'... it may just be part of his personal journey. Kind of like how Black Adam or Darth Vader was 'a hero' before they went Dark.

Personally, I'd rather see them work with what they have then arbitrarily bring him back... we have enough 'good supermen'. He won't bring anything to the table that Superman, Superboy, Supergirl, Power Girl, etc bring... but if they can get him over the angst and whininess then he could be a pretty cool character.

Heck, while I'm not a big fan of Power Girl... I think he's the PERFECT enemy for her. They both are the last survivors of their universe... one is adjusting, the other is resentful... could be a good dynamic.

But he just had too little exposure for me to 'miss' the old version. We didn't LOSE much with by 'going evil', it just feels like a progression.

Now Earth-1 Clark Kent/Superboy… THAT I miss and want brought back... but Earth Prime? I'd rather see where he can go. Especially with the original idea that this was pre-crisis power levels the like that Post-crisis couldn't imagine... I love pre-crisis superpowers.

While I am a big fan of Power Girl, I do completely agree with you about Prime being a great enemy for her. I just don't know why they didn't take that obvious route...she needs a top villain, and he needs a nemesis of his own. Only really Connor or possibly Cassie could have as good a reason to be his enemy as she does, and they don't have to power to fight him. Give PG a small power-up and start writing her as a more formidable character, and she could. Supergirl and Power Girl together seemed to have him on the run briefly, and then there was that heat vision moment of PG's, which apparently was scary enough to Prime, which established her as some sort of threat to him. And that sole survivor of a universe thing, while not theirs exclusively, does provide a narrative hook. Frankly, I never though using the Flashes as his most formidable enemies was a great idea for a guy who can fly, incinerate them from orbit well before they'd even know he was there, or fly across the universe away from them.

Shazam seems...out of the blue. Johns set the PG thing up, even if he didn't really mean to...why not run with it if they have to bring him back at all?

[Midnighter]

No, he was created before crisis. But, was used prominently and famously in that. The thing is superboy couldn't be used in postcrisis era no matter what,due to the law suit by the superman creators family.

His first appearance was in DC Comics Presents #87 which was a Crisis tie in.

DC_Comics_Presents_87.jpg

Also they had no trouble using pocket universe Superboy so they were able to use the character.

[Mr.B]

Eventually 5G will effect Shazam. Making him older and inserting in pre flashpoint history.

[manwhohaseverything]

His first appearance was in DC Comics Presents #87 which was a Crisis tie in.

DC_Comics_Presents_87.jpg

Also they had no trouble using pocket universe Superboy so they were able to use the character.

I don't include tie-ins as part of the event.

[dswynne]

I don't include tie-ins as part of the event.

You can't pick and choose what you find acceptable, dude. Doing so in a discussion is disingenuous.

[docmidnite]

Damn it. 87 Not 27. My bad all…

[Hatut Zeraze]

I will never understand the fascination with this character. He makes comics worse.

Frankly, I thought the cover to Shazam #11 was worth far more discussion than the cover to Shazam #13.

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDo...8xNTczODMyODU3

[lemonpeace]

I will never understand the fascination with this character. He makes comics worse.

Frankly, I thought the cover to Shazam #11 was worth far more discussion than the cover to Shazam #13.

https://img.purch.com/h/1400/aHR0cDo...8xNTczODMyODU3

I think it's because he's evocative of the "toxic fanboy", he elicits reactions from people who identify as part of the "fandom". if you align with his core philosophy that the universe needs to return to the "good old days" you tend to lean more favorably on the character but if you don't then I think it makes it easier to see him as just a character who serves that "toxic fanboy" archetype.

[sifighter]

Eventually 5G will effect Shazam. Making him older and inserting in pre flashpoint history.

Well technically only billy would get older wouldn’t he? Isn’t the conceit that Billy can age but Shazam never truly ages or am I misunderstanding something about Shazam?

At the very least given that Billy has always been portrayed as a young kid I wouldn’t imagine that any time jump would put him any older then his early to mid 20’s, if that.

[Korath]

Regarding an eventual Exiles team at DC... they already have that with Justice Incarnate. They just need to make use of it, damn it !

As for Prime, I'd like for him to be pitted against the wandering New 52 Superman (as seen in Sideways) or the original Power Girl.

[Mr.B]

Well technically only billy would get older wouldn’t he? Isn’t the conceit that Billy can age but Shazam never truly ages or am I misunderstanding something about Shazam?

At the very least given that Billy has always been portrayed as a young kid I wouldn’t imagine that any time jump would put him any older then his early to mid 20’s, if that.

They're restoring his JL era and post crisis.

[sifighter]

They're restoring his JL era and post crisis.

No I get that, I’m just saying Shazam won’t age in appearance and Billy isn’t likely to get that old. I said this in another thread but if Shazam gets aged he’s really only likely to be in his early 20’s if that. I mean in most continuity Billy became Shazam at a young age and if he gets aged up to his experience, most likely not actual chronological age from his first appearance, then he’d really just be nearer to his 20’s. Which would be interesting because we’ve really only seen Billy as a kid with the ability to turn into Shazam, I wonder what young adult adventures of Shazam would be like.

[kilderkin]

You can't pick and choose what you find acceptable, dude. Doing so in a discussion is disingenuous.

Surely everyone is entitled to do just that?

I mean it might reduce their pertinance or your appreciation of their points, but they can still decide for themselves what is acceptable for themselves.