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  1. #436
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Yeah...The shift to Peter being in love with MJ all of a sudden in Far From Home was...odd to me... From what I've seen from MCU MJ in Homecoming is that she hasn't even had ONE pleasant interaction with Peter (unless I missed a moment with her in the same scene with Peter with her not telling him how much he sucked) . It feels like they only brought them together out of obligation than actually wanting to actually build into their relationship.
    The biggest problem is that essentially Peter was weirded out her behavior in the first movie and kind of uncomfortable about it. Flash foward to FFH and suddenly he finds her endearing, how? and why?, eh happened between movies.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  2. #437
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    to be fair
    that stuff just happens
    trust me
    it just
    happens
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  3. #438
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    to be fair
    that stuff just happens
    trust me
    it just
    happens
    Yeah, but in a fictional narrative it's important to get your audience to buy into that kind of stuff.

  4. #439
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    to be fair
    that stuff just happens
    trust me
    it just
    happens
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, but in a fictional narrative it's important to get your audience to buy into that kind of stuff.
    It's the same thing with Vision and Wanda/Scarlet Witch in Avengers: Infinity War, which was set two years after the events of Captain America: Civil War. Civil War? On opposite sides of the conflict between Steve "Captain America" Rogers and Tony "Iron Man" Stark. Infinity War? Never mind that, they're secret lovers and Vision's learned how to assume a human visage that resembles his actor outside of makeup.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #440
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    It's the same thing with Vision and Wanda/Scarlet Witch in Avengers: Infinity War, which was set two years after the events of Captain America: Civil War. Civil War? On opposite sides of the conflict between Steve "Captain America" Rogers and Tony "Iron Man" Stark. Infinity War? Never mind that, they're secret lovers and Vision's learned how to assume a human visage that resembles his actor outside of makeup.
    I mean, at least that had a decisive inciting incident with Vision saving Wanda in Age of Ultron.

  6. #441
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    And she did attempt to ambush Doctor Octopus in 2, though Ock's tentacles spotted and blocked her. Valiant effort, however. Point taken.
    In the first movie, she has the presence of mind to warn Spidey of the Goblin getting into strike position when he first attacks the parade despite being frightened out of her wits and tries the same at the final battle at the bridge (mixed success, but still) and is willing to climb down the cable she doesn't want to with Spidey urging her on. When cornered by the muggers, she does try to fight back when trapped (not effective, but she doesn't just wait and scream). Beyond trying to clobber Ock in the second movie, she also keeps her cool when Spidey surprises her and reveals he's come to deal with Ock (since Ock already realized he'd been found, it might not amount to much, but her controlled reaction was the right one and more then would be expected of a civilian in over their head). In the third movie, besides saving Peter by dropping that cement block, she also exhausts every chance she has to save herself as Venom's web construct starts falling apart (she eventually does get backed into a corner where Peter has to save her, but she was proactive in lasting as long as she could).

    While I don't think Raimi movie MJ is going to be mistaken for some Lara Croft-type any time soon and she did end up in danger at the climax of each movie, she didn't into that trouble by doing anything stupid (she was kidnapped each time in a place she had every reason to believe was safe) and arguably made a better showing for herself then her fellow leading ladies did in the other movies. The Spider-Verse MJs and Ann Wyering in Venom were never in any scrapes, but that wasn't part of their stories. MCU MJ was ready to go down swinging if need be, but was (understandably) outclassed, so retreat was the best and only option. The Webb movies Gwen did try and fight off the Lizard with a Bunsen burner when cornered (which I would put with MJ's trying to sucker punck Doc Ock; didn't work, but not for a lack of trying), but once she's captured, she's helpless and is basically waiting on Spidey to save her. The movie also deconstructs her idea that she can fight alongside Peter despite not having powers and how that leads to her death.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I said this before, but whatever problems i might have with the Raimi movies, at least there i did understand why Peter and Mary Jane were interested in eacth other.
    I actually think the Raimi MJ is kind of an underrated character, given that she rarely seems to be given credit for what she did do, much less be noted for the character development she got over the series, a rarity for the girlfriend character in this genre of film. Same goes for the love story in it. The dynamics make sense, it evolves, and it's given more depth beyond the attraction aspect.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
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  7. #442
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Kirsten Dunst's MJ at least in the first two movies played an actual character with flaws and dimensions. She's genuinely a capable actress (and also an actress with real star quality). I think people focus too much on the damsel stuff at the expense of everything else in those movies, and let that define her. Which is sad because I think it's come at the expense of diminishing a certain kind of femininity in favor of others.

    It also created this thing, on the part of Sony, to overcompensate, whereby they went too far in the other direction with Emma Gwen. And this attempt in the MCU to make civilian supporting cast into support crew. When you do this, civilians aren't civilians anymore. You no longer have a sense of a real life which grounds the heroes, and which the heroes in turn find value and meaning, and see importance in protecting.

  8. #443
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Kirsten Dunst's MJ at least in the first two movies played an actual character with flaws and dimensions. She's genuinely a capable actress (and also an actress with real star quality). I think people focus too much on the damsel stuff at the expense of everything else in those movies, and let that define her. Which is sad because I think it's come at the expense of diminishing a certain kind of femininity in favor of others.

    It also created this thing, on the part of Sony, to overcompensate, whereby they went too far in the other direction with Emma Gwen. And this attempt in the MCU to make civilian supporting cast into support crew. When you do this, civilians aren't civilians anymore. You no longer have a sense of a real life which grounds the heroes, and which the heroes in turn find value and meaning, and see importance in protecting.
    (Cough)Ganke(Cough)

  9. #444
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    not sure if people shared it over here but Carlos Gomez did do a Peter with Preggo MJ, he left up to the fans to determine if its Mayday or Annie May

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CBTQijbnvrz/

  10. #445
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    not sure if people shared it over here but Carlos Gomez did do a Peter with Preggo MJ, he left up to the fans to determine if its Mayday or Annie May

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CBTQijbnvrz/
    MJ and Spider-Clothes .

  11. #446
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    In the first movie, she has the presence of mind to warn Spidey of the Goblin getting into strike position when he first attacks the parade despite being frightened out of her wits and tries the same at the final battle at the bridge (mixed success, but still) and is willing to climb down the cable she doesn't want to with Spidey urging her on. When cornered by the muggers, she does try to fight back when trapped (not effective, but she doesn't just wait and scream). Beyond trying to clobber Ock in the second movie, she also keeps her cool when Spidey surprises her and reveals he's come to deal with Ock (since Ock already realized he'd been found, it might not amount to much, but her controlled reaction was the right one and more then would be expected of a civilian in over their head). In the third movie, besides saving Peter by dropping that cement block, she also exhausts every chance she has to save herself as Venom's web construct starts falling apart (she eventually does get backed into a corner where Peter has to save her, but she was proactive in lasting as long as she could).

    While I don't think Raimi movie MJ is going to be mistaken for some Lara Croft-type any time soon and she did end up in danger at the climax of each movie, she didn't into that trouble by doing anything stupid (she was kidnapped each time in a place she had every reason to believe was safe) and arguably made a better showing for herself then her fellow leading ladies did in the other movies. The Spider-Verse MJs and Ann Wyering in Venom were never in any scrapes, but that wasn't part of their stories. MCU MJ was ready to go down swinging if need be, but was (understandably) outclassed, so retreat was the best and only option. The Webb movies Gwen did try and fight off the Lizard with a Bunsen burner when cornered (which I would put with MJ's trying to sucker punck Doc Ock; didn't work, but not for a lack of trying), but once she's captured, she's helpless and is basically waiting on Spidey to save her. The movie also deconstructs her idea that she can fight alongside Peter despite not having powers and how that leads to her death.



    I actually think the Raimi MJ is kind of an underrated character, given that she rarely seems to be given credit for what she did do, much less be noted for the character development she got over the series, a rarity for the girlfriend character in this genre of film. Same goes for the love story in it. The dynamics make sense, it evolves, and it's given more depth beyond the attraction aspect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Kirsten Dunst's MJ at least in the first two movies played an actual character with flaws and dimensions. She's genuinely a capable actress (and also an actress with real star quality). I think people focus too much on the damsel stuff at the expense of everything else in those movies, and let that define her. Which is sad because I think it's come at the expense of diminishing a certain kind of femininity in favor of others.

    It also created this thing, on the part of Sony, to overcompensate, whereby they went too far in the other direction with Emma Gwen. And this attempt in the MCU to make civilian supporting cast into support crew. When you do this, civilians aren't civilians anymore. You no longer have a sense of a real life which grounds the heroes, and which the heroes in turn find value and meaning, and see importance in protecting.
    You both raise good points, I'll admit, though I should mention that the MCU is simply following in the footsteps of more recent Marvel comics --- say the last decade or so --- where (almost) everyone in a superpowered protagonist's orbit either becomes superpowered themselves or is otherwise a frequent partner and collaborator in the protagonist's adventures and battles due to a specialized skill-set that civilians aren't likely to have.

    (On a side note, I'll mention that in the case of Ann Weying in the Venom movie, while she's not necessarily in the line of fire with Eddie/Venom, she does bond with the symbiote temporarily to save Eddie and reunite him with it, then helps them against Carlton Drake/Riot by turning up the sonics when Riot tries to launch a space probe to reunite with the symbiote invasion force he leads.)
    Last edited by Huntsman Spider; 07-03-2020 at 02:44 PM.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #447
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    (On a side note, I'll mention that in the case of Ann Weying in the Venom movie, while she's not necessarily in the line of fire with Eddie/Venom, she does bond with the symbiote temporarily to save Eddie and reunite him with it, then helps them against Carlton Drake/Riot by turning up the sonics when Riot tries to launch a space probe to reunite with the symbiote invasion force he leads.)
    Remembered Ann hosting Venom (who could forget creepy kissing, obscure She-Venom in-joke, and plot hole of how she survived the hosting all in one?), but my memory of the rest was pretty rusty.

    I forget, did she choose to bond to bring Venom to Eddie, or was borrowing her legs all Venom's idea?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  13. #448
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Remembered Ann hosting Venom (who could forget creepy kissing, obscure She-Venom in-joke, and plot hole of how she survived the hosting all in one?), but my memory of the rest was pretty rusty.

    I forget, did she choose to bond to bring Venom to Eddie, or was borrowing her legs all Venom's idea?
    That's a very good question, though it did seem there was at least some cooperation on her end.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #449

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I said this before, but whatever problems i might have with the Raimi movies, at least there i did understand why Peter and Mary Jane were interested in eacth other.
    The funny thing about that... a few years ago, on Facebook, I ran a poll among my friends asking if they though Maguire and Dunst had any chemistry in those movies. I got a lot of responses. All of the women who responded said they didn't see any chemistry at all, and never bought into the relationship. Only two people said yes... both were guys, and both were virgins who were well into their thirties who constantly whine, to this day, that women don't like them.

    It was fascinating.

  15. #450
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voices From the Eyrie View Post
    The funny thing about that... a few years ago, on Facebook, I ran a poll...
    An actual poll, i.e. wide-movie release happened in 2002. To this very day, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 1, is the movie with the highest US box-office gross. The only one, so far, to reach $400mn domestically.

    The Spider-Man and Mary Jane romance was certainly considered the biggest things about that movie around the time of the first two movies.

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