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  1. #1096
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Tiger View Post
    It's very clear that the Raimi films didn't adhere to the comics like the U.S. constitution. Nor that they mapped everything out as such. But the Raimi films did reference, draw influence from, and remix a variety of storylines from the comics.
    I came off too strong and I am sorry for that.

    It's just that as I said I am weary of people picking apart and being hyper-critical of everything with Mary Jane in adaptations. Focusing on, what seems to me, inessential stuff over essential stuff.

    In the case of the Raimi movies, Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane is by and large the Mary Jane of the comics from the Conway-Stern-Defalco eras, aka the Mary Jane of the majority of comics at the time of the movie's release and subsequent continuity. The original Lee-Romita characterization of MJ would never have sufficed for a character to serve as the heroine and co-lead of the story. And whenever people bring up KD's MJ not being the original MJ they bring up the Lee-Romita characterization which is essentially a cudgel to attack her later development.

    She's more serious and less flighty but so is Tobey Maguire's Peter. Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies are primarily dramatic stuff with comedic and romance elements. So that's how they configured the characters.

    If you squint you can sorta see Liz Allan because they put MJ in high school, if you squint another way, you can apparently see Gwen (I do need to ask what people mean by the word "Gwen" because rich daddy's girl who hates Spider-Man isn't at all KD's MJ) but these are superficial in the overall sense. Okay, MJ is popular girl at Midtown like Liz Allan but she's never rude or snobbish to Peter, she's in fact quite kind to him (that doesn't explain her dating a guy who's a jerk to Peter, but the movie isn't built to answer those questions). In the high school graduation scene, where Liz and Peter have that poignant farewell moment in the Lee-Ditko run, we don't see any comparative moment for Mary Jane.

    What's more important is how much MJ borrows from other characters, presumably, but still remains MJ. That's what counts.

  2. #1097
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Did Raimi himself say this in an interview? Or did any of the writers? Or was it some trivia note somewhere in the DVD.

    No direct quotes at all from any of the screenwriters, producers, creators involved with the movies that I have come across. The only one which addresses it is the one I quoted where Sam Raimi specifically disavows any affinity for Gwen as a character.
    It was stated on a featurette about the movies' female characters. My memory's rusty on who said it. (Also, never had a problem with the character as written in the movies.)
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  3. #1098
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    It was stated on a featurette about the movies' female characters. My memory's rusty on who said it. (Also, never had a problem with the character as written in the movies.)
    I agree with you on the second point.

    The first point does suggest something cooked up by the DVD producers as tidbit and trivia they found online and other places rather than anything directly from behind the scenes.

  4. #1099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I came off too strong and I am sorry for that.

    It's just that as I said I am weary of people picking apart and being hyper-critical of everything with Mary Jane in adaptations. Focusing on, what seems to me, inessential stuff over essential stuff.
    No need to apologize. I do generally enjoy those films, and think that his Mary Jane was a well developed/written character if not a "perfect" adaptation of MJ.

  5. #1100
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    ^^^
    Awesome!

    One of my all-time favorite issues of...

    Marvel Saga





    I just clicked some random page and I'm still mad

  6. #1101
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I just clicked some random page and I'm still mad
    Mad about what?

  7. #1102
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Mad about what?
    I assume the Post-OMD situation which is understandable.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  8. #1103

  9. #1104
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    More like Em Jay as Carnage...McGuire writing this has a me a little apprehensive, but it's kind of funny that this is the second time a Mary Jane has been associated with the Carnage Symbiote. I guess it's the red ?

  10. #1105
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    There's one of three ways I could see this ending.

    1: She loses the symbiote and things go back to what they were.

    2: She keeps the symbiote and becomes a full-on antagonist.

    3: She keeps the symbiote and becomes one of Gwen's allies.

    A situation where she "loses" the symbiote but they tease she'll get it back is also highly probable and feeds into any of the above scenarios.

    (And a fourth scenario where she dies, but I doubt that if they ever plan on launching another Spider-Gwen book.)
    Last edited by Kevinroc; 12-03-2020 at 09:33 AM.

  11. #1106
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    There's one of three ways I could see this ending.

    1: She loses the symbiote and things go back to what they were.

    2: She keeps the symbiote and becomes a full-on antagonist.

    3: She keeps the symbiote and becomes one of Gwen's allies.

    A situation where she "loses" the symbiote but they tease she'll get it back is also highly probable and feeds into any of the above scenarios.

    (And a fourth scenario where she dies, but I doubt that if they ever plan on launching another Spider-Gwen book.)
    Or her getting the Symbiote is used to give Gwen even more reason to stay away from Earth-65 in one form or another.

  12. #1107
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Or her getting the Symbiote is used to give Gwen even more reason to stay away from Earth-65 in one form or another.
    That serves as either antagonist or ally.

    (Although if they do make her an antagonist, I can imagine they'll want to have Peter fight her at some point. Lot of drama in that scenario.)

  13. #1108
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That serves as either antagonist or ally.

    (Although if they do make her an antagonist, I can imagine they'll want to have Peter fight her at some point. Lot of drama in that scenario.)
    This is supposed to be Earth-65 EmJay, right? I don't think Peter would be all that worked up about her.

  14. #1109
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This is supposed to be Earth-65 EmJay, right? I don't think Peter would be all that worked up about her.
    It's more the idea of fighting A MJ (or "Em Jay" in this case). That's the whole point of AU stories. The "what could have been".

    As an example, Peter looked pretty torn up when he briefly saw Ultimate MJ in the original Spider-Men even though he had no connection to her at all.

  15. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It's more the idea of fighting A MJ (or "Em Jay" in this case). That's the whole point of AU stories. The "what could have been".

    As an example, Peter looked pretty torn up when he briefly saw Ultimate MJ in the original Spider-Men even though he had no connection to her at all.
    Its weird because I would assume that all of these different versions of Mary Jane and Gwen physically look different (Like how Felicia on Earth-65 is black) Not only are they drawn differently, but 616 MJ and Gwen are characterized as being visually striking women, but that isn't the case with the earth-65 or ultimate versions. Yet they had Spider-Gwen pose as 616 Gwen during Clone Conspiracy.

    Anyway, I would hope that Carnage EmJay ends up being an ally rather than an antagonist, but if she is ported to the 616 universe it would be very cathartic to have 616 MJ beat the crap out of her.

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