Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2020

[Prime]

So she did have the hots for Peter back then huh.

[Frontier]

This really makes me wonder how Spectacular would've handled all the relationship development.

[Jman27]

This really makes me wonder how Spectacular would've handled all the relationship development.

You guys treat Spectacular like its Batman the Animated Series like its the greatest cartoon of all time. Maybe it is I need to do a rewatch I guess

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You guys treat Spectacular like its Batman the Animated Series like its the greatest cartoon of all time. Maybe it is I need to do a rewatch I guess

It's the best Spider-Man cartoon series (series mind you not movie...we all know who's #1 there) in terms of visuals, character designs, dialogue and storytelling...ergo the best Spider-Man cartoon series we have now.

Does it rank alongside Batman TAS? Well Batman TAS is a complete show with a bigger scope...if Spectacular Spider-Man ran longer it could have matched or exceeded it who knows.

[Frontier]

It's the best Spider-Man cartoon series (series mind you not movie...we all know who's #1 there) in terms of visuals, character designs, dialogue and storytelling...ergo the best Spider-Man cartoon series we have now.

Does it rank alongside Batman TAS? Well Batman TAS is a complete show with a bigger scope...if Spectacular Spider-Man ran longer it could have matched or exceeded it who knows.

Yeah, I feel like the lack of longevity really hurt Spec.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, I feel like the lack of longevity really hurt Spec.

Rather than apply unrealistic standards...i.e. BTAS or bust, why not compare Spectacular Spider-Man to BATMAN BEYOND (which also went for just 2 years or so), or Superman TAS (ditto). I'd say it's as good as those two.

I mean Batman Beyond as as how had good episodes and all but if not for the made-for-TV Return of the Joker movie (which itself wouldn't be what it is without the 15 minute flashback set in the far end of the BTAS era), it would be a cult success and not seen as an essential Batman cartoon that it's looked at nowadays. Superman TAS hardly ever gets much press and coverage. I mean it's closer to Spectacular in being a very serialized story. Or you know STAS versus X-Men Evolution which had longevity and got to tell a complete story in five seasons (complete for the versions of the characters introduced at the start that is).

Spectacular Spider-Man does pretty well when placed in that proper perspective.

[Kevinroc]

Wouldn't Young Justice be a better comparison?

[Frontier]

Wouldn't Young Justice be a better comparison?

YJ got a third (and fourth) season though .

One thing I think at least Spec had going for it in my book is a clear protagonist among all the many supporting characters and villains, so the focus was clearer. That and the villains weren't as omni-competent as The Light.

[Kevinroc]

YJ got a third (and fourth) season though .

One thing I think at least Spec had going for it in my book is a clear protagonist among all the many supporting characters and villains, so the focus was clearer. That and the villains weren't as omni-competent as The Light.

It eventually got a third (and fourth) season years after the fact because there weren't any legal issues.

[Mistah K88]

Rather than apply unrealistic standards...i.e. BTAS or bust, why not compare Spectacular Spider-Man to BATMAN BEYOND (which also went for just 2 years or so), or Superman TAS (ditto). I'd say it's as good as those two.

I remember always thinking Batman Beyond had a lot of Spidey influence (as every teenage hero does) Krave...Stalker was a bit on the nose though.

You guys treat Spectacular like its Batman the Animated Series like its the greatest cartoon of all time. Maybe it is I need to do a rewatch I guess

I suppose when it comes to Mary Jane Watson, I think that cartoon was the last time she was a major character in an adaptation (MCU's "MJ" was said not to be the same character, Marvel's Spider-Man tossed her in at the last minute, and Ultimate, while she was there in the beginning, she disappeared for a LONG time [I think Peter's civilian life took a back seat in general]). It's hilarious as when the show was on (08/09), comics were trying their hardest to make her disappear.

[Lukmendes]

You guys treat Spectacular like its Batman the Animated Series like its the greatest cartoon of all time. Maybe it is I need to do a rewatch I guess

I honestly find Batman TAS a bit overrated, definitely above average when it comes to super-hero adaptations, but I don't think it's as good as people say.

YJ got a third (and fourth) season though .

One thing I think at least Spec had going for it in my book is a clear protagonist among all the many supporting characters and villains, so the focus was clearer. That and the villains weren't as omni-competent as The Light.

Norman was close though, so very close, he has those complete bullshit super-villain plans that rely on colossal amounts of luck for them to succeed, and the narration treats him as a super genius for being lucky, and The Light has plans like that too (Warworld episode is the biggest one, they let Mongul know that Reach is on Earth so he can attack it for Reach to reveal their army hidden in there, this plan relies on the Reach telling everyone on Earth that they don't have an army, which they didn't do until Warworld was already coming, and for the heroes to protect the Earth just enough for the Reach to do something, and also for them to manage to fucking defeat Mongul, and if the plan fails, Earth is nuked, which goes against their plans, this is their most moronic plan by far) biggest difference between him and Light is that Norman's defeats actually matter and screw him up, The Light, when they lose they're inconvenienced at worst, and that's it, so Weisman's super competent villain fetish was definitely there, just that Spectacular's writing is good enough to actually screw him over.

Reminds me he also likes to have a scene where a hero works for a villain for free, when the villain offered to pay earlier, Spidey did that when he protected Tombstone from Green Goblin, then Red Arrow/Speedy (Whatever name he had) did it when he protected Lex in season 1, although the Spectacular one is really stupid, since Spidey could've pointed out that Tombstone also told him to stop whatever small crimes, which is not something he'd be willing to do lol.

[Jman27]

Yeah young justice was the hype back but that too got cut short same with Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes. Hmmm superhero shows don't last long

[Frontier]

I honestly find Batman TAS a bit overrated, definitely above average when it comes to super-hero adaptations, but I don't think it's as good as people say.

Like with anything parts of it hasn't necessarily aged the best (and nothing is ever perfect) but for what it was able to achieve and how well-rounded and definitive it's portrayals of characters ended up being, I'd say it earned the hype.

Norman was close though, so very close, he has those complete bullshit super-villain plans that rely on colossal amounts of luck for them to succeed, and the narration treats him as a super genius for being lucky, and The Light has plans like that too (Warworld episode is the biggest one, they let Mongul know that Reach is on Earth so he can attack it for Reach to reveal their army hidden in there, this plan relies on the Reach telling everyone on Earth that they don't have an army, which they didn't do until Warworld was already coming, and for the heroes to protect the Earth just enough for the Reach to do something, and also for them to manage to fucking defeat Mongul, and if the plan fails, Earth is nuked, which goes against their plans, this is their most moronic plan by far) biggest difference between him and Light is that Norman's defeats actually matter and screw him up, The Light, when they lose they're inconvenienced at worst, and that's it, so Weisman's super competent villain fetish was definitely there, just that Spectacular's writing is good enough to actually screw him over.

And Peter got to beat the Goblin.

Yeah young justice was the hype back but that too got cut short same with Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes. Hmmm superhero shows don't last long

At least the really good ones don't...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I remember always thinking Batman Beyond had a lot of Spidey influence (as every teenage hero does) Krave...Stalker was a bit on the nose though.

Batman Beyond was inspired by Spider-Man. The brief was "Batman in High School" and rather than doing a young Bruce Wayne in high school (which they ended up doing in comics recently...Gotham High), they decided to do a legacy teenager wearing a Batsuit, and they decided to have Batman grow old and become Alfred to the new Batman. The Batman Beyond outfit is aesthetically closer to the Spider-Man costume -- full body suit, full face covering mask, no underwear outside paints -- than the classic Batsuit.

I always felt that Batman Beyond had a problem that it avoided mostly by a juggling act...because that show was catering to two audiences. One is for the regular kids who grew up seeing BTAS or seeing it in reruns and allowing them to see Old Bruce's final years and getting hints and glimmers of the final years of the characters they knew. The other is the audience for whom Terry McGinnis was the main character and hero. The show was simultaneously telling a Miller/Moore-esque "heroes grow old" deconstruction but balancing that by telling the story of a young kid living to that legacy and making it his own. So tonally, it was a mix. If you see it from Old Bruce's view, Batman Beyond is a total downer, the most iconic superhero of pop culture in the '90s ended up old, bitter, alone, without a wife and kids, who has burned all his bridges, outlived Gordon and Alfred, and doesn't even have a permanent victory in his war on crime because some other orphaned kid has to pick up the slack. (And yeah I know about Justice League "Epilogue", I actually like that episode but I am simply going by the original run here) It's a bit like Old Luke Skywalker from TLJ in that sense.

Whereas Spectacular Spider-Man is openly told from Peter's perspective and so it gets to be the purest take on that concept. It's the only cartoon that sells the idea that a teenage Spider-Man was smart and powerful to be a hero in his own right and assert himself against New York's worst.

One thing I think at least Spec had going for it in my book is a clear protagonist among all the many supporting characters and villains, so the focus was clearer. That and the villains weren't as omni-competent as The Light.

Spectacular Spider-Man for me at least feels a little complete because it's major subplot from the first episode in S1 to its final episode in S2 is the story of Norman Osborn going from businessman to supervillain. Norman is the major villain of that show and the mystery of the Green Goblin is the main throughline in that two seasons, and even if the show got cancelled, it did end with Norman unmasked as Green Goblin. Sure Peter never got together with Gwen, and Harry got gaslighted by Norman into becoming an a--hole, but those developments are mostly inevitable and not sad. So even if Spectacular Spider-Man never gets another season...I personally think it can stand on itself as it is.

[Lukmendes]

Like with anything parts of it hasn't necessarily aged the best (and nothing is ever perfect) but for what it was able to achieve and how well-rounded and definitive it's portrayals of characters ended up being, I'd say it earned the hype.

I guess, it's just that whenever I watch some episode, they tend to be on the "fun" category, which is important for super heroes, but so far, didn't find some episode to make me want to watch everything.

And Peter got to beat the Goblin.

Thinking of it, is Klarion is the only Light leader who got beaten up on-screen? I know The Light avoids fighting, but it's ironic if their blatantly most powerful member is the only one taking Ls lol.

At least the really good ones don't...

Good thing Justice League was the exception, it even got one more season than expected, since it was supposed to end with Lex-Brainiac shit, but we got Darkseid instead.