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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Default Bobbi Morse: Mockingbird Appreciation 2020

    I may not have the claws and the webs... but I know a thing or two about a thing or two.
    Last year's thread: https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019



    Bobbi Morse Appreciation 2020


    Bobbi's coming in hot in 2020: She's got a spot on the roster in both Black Panther and the Agents of Wakanda and in Captain America, and she's part of a four-person team in 2020 Force Works, a three-issue miniseries starting in February. Which book are you most excited about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    Bobbi's coming in hot in 2020: She's got a spot on the roster in both Black Panther and the Agents of Wakanda and in Captain America, and she's part of a four-person team in 2020 Force Works, a three-issue miniseries starting in February. Which book are you most excited about?
    FORCE WORKS, since the smaller cast means that we'll likely get a heavier focus on Mockingbird. I'm really enjoying AGENTS OF WAKANDA too, but the rotating cast means we don't get as much of Bobbi as I'd like.

    Is FORCE WORKS going to be the first time that Bobbi and USAgent have worked together since she's returned from her time with the Skrulls? I wonder if he still has his crush on her? Not that he's likely to get any further with her now than he did back in the old WCA when he hit on her....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    FORCE WORKS, since the smaller cast means that we'll likely get a heavier focus on Mockingbird. I'm really enjoying AGENTS OF WAKANDA too, but the rotating cast means we don't get as much of Bobbi as I'd like.
    Same here. My only concern is that event tie-in books are so focused on...well, tying in to the event, that they don't have enough time left to really develop the characters. Like, the Secret Empire: Underground one-shot was wonderful in the way that it reflected Bobbi's personality and strengths nicely, but it didn't exactly move her character arc forward, and she's well overdue for that, IMO.

    Is FORCE WORKS going to be the first time that Bobbi and USAgent have worked together since she's returned from her time with the Skrulls? I wonder if he still has his crush on her? Not that he's likely to get any further with her now than he did back in the old WCA when he hit on her....
    Walker interacted with the New Avengers just after Osborn's prison break during Bendis's Heroic Age New Avengers series (I think he was in charge of security at the Raft at the time and Daisy was chewing him out for letting Osborn escape), but I don't think that he and Bobbi had any panels together. As much as he's a jerk and an awful fit for Bobbi, she's got such a long dry spell going that I kind of want to see her have a hot one-night stand with him, no emotions involved. It's about time someone gave our girl some appreciation. Spider-Man called her his girlfriend and treated her like a sister, and, like someone said in the Hawkeye thread, the Chelsea Cain series is so far removed from continuity that it might as well not be 616. Let her make a bad choice or two and get some satisfaction out of it for once.

    (Which reminds me of how Jim McCann's original plan was to have Bobbi hook up with Dominic Fortune for a while, but his run got ended early and it never happened. Sigh.)

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Forceworks is an event tie in?
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    Fantastic Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seren View Post
    Forceworks is an event tie in?
    Yeah, it's part of the Iron Man 2020 event.

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    Astonishing Member Seren's Avatar
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    Somehow I missed that little detail. Good to know.
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  7. #7
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    Happy New Year to Bobbi .

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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    Walker interacted with the New Avengers just after Osborn's prison break during Bendis's Heroic Age New Avengers series (I think he was in charge of security at the Raft at the time and Daisy was chewing him out for letting Osborn escape), but I don't think that he and Bobbi had any panels together.
    Fair enough. But was that the "New" Avengers or the other Avengers? Quake was on the roster of the AVENGERS book, not the NEW AVENGERS.

    Its easy enough to get them blurred though, since Bendis was writing two Avengers books for so long and both casts went through a couple of shake-ups along the way (and some members hopped back and forth between both groups too).

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    As much as he's a jerk and an awful fit for Bobbi, she's got such a long dry spell going that I kind of want to see her have a hot one-night stand with him, no emotions involved. It's about time someone gave our girl some appreciation.
    I wouldn't be opposed to that!

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    Spider-Man called her his girlfriend and treated her like a sister,
    Yeah, its weird that those two were together as long as they were but their relationship seemed to move so slowly. Its possible they were finally sleeping together towards the end though--there was one scene where Bobbi invited him into bed with her, but he declined since he had to get up early to start a new job the next morning. So that certainly implies that their relationship had reached a point where sex was a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    and, like someone said in the Hawkeye thread, the Chelsea Cain series is so far removed from continuity that it might as well not be 616.
    I wouldn't go that far. Just because the events of the series haven't been referenced since then (as of yet) doesn't make it non-continuity. There are plenty of loose threads from the HAWKEYE & MOCKINGBIRD series that have never been referenced again, but it doesn't mean that book was non-continuity either. There just hasn't been much reason for much of the MOCKINGBIRD stuff to be mentioned, since the majority of it was so self-contained.

    The only thing from that series that needs to be forgotten was the misguided notion that Bobbi willingly cheated on Clint with the Phantom Rider and it wasn't a rape. And that is explained away easily enough as Bobbi simply telling the Phantom Rider what he wanted to hear to manipulate him. After all, right after she said it he turned solid again and she was able to kick his butt.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    (Which reminds me of how Jim McCann's original plan was to have Bobbi hook up with Dominic Fortune for a while, but his run got ended early and it never happened. Sigh.)
    Although I am still very disappointed that run didn't last longer, I am happy that the Dominic Fortune thing never happened. He pissed me off repeatedly in that series, constantly insulting Clint in front of Bobbi while she and Clint were still an item. I just didn't think Bobbi would choose to get involved with someone who had so little respect for her that he would insult her choice of man right to her face, and treat her like she was some prize he could win by proving Clint wasn't worthy of her. I think Bobbi would be really offended by his attitude and behaviour, and only put up with him because she wanted his skills as an agent of her WCA.

  9. #9

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    who invented her billy clubs? Just wondering. And she still has the super soldier serum in her body?

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    Fantastic Member OOTCS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Fair enough. But was that the "New" Avengers or the other Avengers? Quake was on the roster of the AVENGERS book, not the NEW AVENGERS.

    Its easy enough to get them blurred though, since Bendis was writing two Avengers books for so long and both casts went through a couple of shake-ups along the way (and some members hopped back and forth between both groups too).
    The Osborn prison break was a crossover between the two books, IIRC, with both teams appearing in both books. But I just checked, and Bobbi doesn't appear in the particular issue where USAgent does (Avengers #19), though other members of her team do.



    Yeah, its weird that those two were together as long as they were but their relationship seemed to move so slowly. Its possible they were finally sleeping together towards the end though--there was one scene where Bobbi invited him into bed with her, but he declined since he had to get up early to start a new job the next morning. So that certainly implies that their relationship had reached a point where sex was a possibility.
    It's hard to tell, because we never once saw him sleeping anywhere but her couch, and it's not like the book made a point of showing him leaving her room to sleep on the couch, either. Peter is usually shown as being very physical in his relationships and that was absent here. So while the invitation to bed does kind of hint that maybe it had happened, I'm still not sure.


    I wouldn't go that far. Just because the events of the series haven't been referenced since then (as of yet) doesn't make it non-continuity. There are plenty of loose threads from the HAWKEYE & MOCKINGBIRD series that have never been referenced again, but it doesn't mean that book was non-continuity either. There just hasn't been much reason for much of the MOCKINGBIRD stuff to be mentioned, since the majority of it was so self-contained.
    It's not just that: it's also the whole unreliable narrator aspect and the scenes that are clearly exaggerated for humorous effect. Bobbi and Clint having couples therapy in Paris, the idea that Bobbi experimented on Clint during their marriage or that she refused to tell him how many times she'd been married (when we saw her basically tell him her entire life story the first time she met him), the mercorgis, and so on. I think there's some canon basis to the book, but it's so mixed up with hyperbole that you kind of need to cherry-pick what's "real" and what isn't.

    The only thing from that series that needs to be forgotten was the misguided notion that Bobbi willingly cheated on Clint with the Phantom Rider and it wasn't a rape. And that is explained away easily enough as Bobbi simply telling the Phantom Rider what he wanted to hear to manipulate him. After all, right after she said it he turned solid again and she was able to kick his butt.
    With you 100% on that one.


    Although I am still very disappointed that run didn't last longer, I am happy that the Dominic Fortune thing never happened. He pissed me off repeatedly in that series, constantly insulting Clint in front of Bobbi while she and Clint were still an item. I just didn't think Bobbi would choose to get involved with someone who had so little respect for her that he would insult her choice of man right to her face, and treat her like she was some prize he could win by proving Clint wasn't worthy of her. I think Bobbi would be really offended by his attitude and behaviour, and only put up with him because she wanted his skills as an agent of her WCA.
    Yes, I definitely think it would have been a bad idea for her to get together with him. I'm just a little frustrated because Clint made a whole series of bad decisions after the breakup and it only made his character more popular, while Bobbi did everything "right" and got shoved into limbo, so I'm wondering if makibg a few bad choices would have been better in the long run. Although the fact that she keeps a relatively cool head and makes smart decisions is part of what I love about her, so it's hard to say.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle
    who invented her billy clubs? Just wondering. And she still has the super soldier serum in her body?
    She started using them when she was working on her own against SHIELD, so I'm guessing she made them herself from bits and pieces of existing SHIELD tech.

    She was confirmed to still have the serum as recently as Unstoppable Wasp (2018-2019) when she recovered from a broken leg in under a day. I think the status quo is basically that she has it forever, unless they decide to write a storyline where it starts ot fade or go wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    It's hard to tell, because we never once saw him sleeping anywhere but her couch, and it's not like the book made a point of showing him leaving her room to sleep on the couch, either. Peter is usually shown as being very physical in his relationships and that was absent here. So while the invitation to bed does kind of hint that maybe it had happened, I'm still not sure.
    It didn't help that their relationship seemed to be taking them step forward right before the end of Dan Slott's run--so it seemed like a lot of things happened rather quickly to tie things up before he left. The Bobbi/Peter break-up was very abrupt and it happened off-panel! Given the condensed way the Bobbi/Peter relationship was being portrayed due to the end-of-run time crunch, I could easily see the commencement of the sexual aspect of their relationship falling into off-panel territory.

    It happened with Peter's last girlfriend before Bobbi too...Peter began his relationship with her off-panel and they barely had any on-panel scenes together as a couple before they broke up due to her betraying him as a mole within Parker Industries.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    It's not just that: it's also the whole unreliable narrator aspect and the scenes that are clearly exaggerated for humorous effect. Bobbi and Clint having couples therapy in Paris, the idea that Bobbi experimented on Clint during their marriage or that she refused to tell him how many times she'd been married (when we saw her basically tell him her entire life story the first time she met him), the mercorgis, and so on. I think there's some canon basis to the book, but it's so mixed up with hyperbole that you kind of need to cherry-pick what's "real" and what isn't.
    True enough. I think its safe to say that the events of the book are in-continuity, but some of the specific details are inaccurate (kind of like the SENSATIONAL SHE-HULK series -- which was basically an in-universe Marvel Comic portrayal of the real She-Hulk's adventures).

    I wouldn't dismiss the mercorgis as non-continuity though. The Marvel Universe has plenty of precedent for magical creatures; genetically engineered creations; mutated people and animals, etc, that they are hardly the strangest thing to turn up in a Marvel comic. In fact, wasn't it established that there was a portal to Weirdworld somewhere in that vicinity? They could be creatures of Weirdworld that crossed the dimensional border to Earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    Yes, I definitely think it would have been a bad idea for her to get together with him. I'm just a little frustrated because Clint made a whole series of bad decisions after the breakup and it only made his character more popular, while Bobbi did everything "right" and got shoved into limbo, so I'm wondering if makibg a few bad choices would have been better in the long run. Although the fact that she keeps a relatively cool head and makes smart decisions is part of what I love about her, so it's hard to say.
    A cool head some of the time anyway. She does have a pretty fiery temper of her own...but yeah, she does generally tend to keep it under control.

    While I get where you're coming from, I wouldn't quite say Mocky got shoved into limbo. Since the end of the HAWK & MOCK series, she's had her own one-shot, followed by her own solo ongoing; was back on active duty with the Avengers in the SECRET AVENGERS series; has been an ongoing supporting character in multiple different series (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, SILK, Matt Fraction's HAWKEYE, SPIDER-MAN & DEADPOOL; UNSTOPPABLE WASP and CAPTAIN AMERICA) and is now part of the cast of two team books (one ongoing, one miniseries).

    Don't get me wrong--I'd still love more, with a more prominent and consistent role for Bobbi. But given that she spent nearly two decades as a "dead" character, limited to the occasional untold tale flashback or "raise the ghosts of the dead" story, I am very pleased with how much more Mockingbird we get these days!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    I wouldn't dismiss the mercorgis as non-continuity though. The Marvel Universe has plenty of precedent for magical creatures; genetically engineered creations; mutated people and animals, etc, that they are hardly the strangest thing to turn up in a Marvel comic. In fact, wasn't it established that there was a portal to Weirdworld somewhere in that vicinity? They could be creatures of Weirdworld that crossed the dimensional border to Earth.
    Okay, I'll give you that one.


    A cool head some of the time anyway. She does have a pretty fiery temper of her own...but yeah, she does generally tend to keep it under control.
    Yeah, she has emotions and sometimes they run hot, but she's able to keep it in check when it's time to act. In 49 years of publication history, the only actual mistake she made that comes to mind is when she gave (what she thought was) SHIELD the information that helped them capture Vision. And that was 31 years ago!

    (One might argue that not telling Clint right away about the Phantom Rider was also a mistake, but A. if so, it was a mistake of being too cautious rather than too rash, and B. she was getting around to doing it in her own time, and if the Phantom Rider hadn't interfered and told Clint first, that whole thing probably would have gone a lot better.)

    While I get where you're coming from, I wouldn't quite say Mocky got shoved into limbo. Since the end of the HAWK & MOCK series, she's had her own one-shot, followed by her own solo ongoing; was back on active duty with the Avengers in the SECRET AVENGERS series; has been an ongoing supporting character in multiple different series (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, SILK, Matt Fraction's HAWKEYE, SPIDER-MAN & DEADPOOL; UNSTOPPABLE WASP and CAPTAIN AMERICA) and is now part of the cast of two team books (one ongoing, one miniseries).

    Don't get me wrong--I'd still love more, with a more prominent and consistent role for Bobbi. But given that she spent nearly two decades as a "dead" character, limited to the occasional untold tale flashback or "raise the ghosts of the dead" story, I am very pleased with how much more Mockingbird we get these days!!
    You're right; I shouldn't say she's been in limbo, because she's been in plenty of books. And I'm sure the fact that I only got into her as a character after she returned from the dead influences my perspective. But since New Avengers ended, she doesn't seem to have much of an arc. Her appearances seem kind of random and disjointed. She keeps showing up working for SHIELD/Hill/Fury Jr. after having quit the last time we saw her, or she's written so generically you can only tell it's her from the art. A few writers have done—or at least started to do—interesting things with her, but when the book ends it's never picked up anywhere else. Her friendships never seem to carry over from book to book (with the exception of Silk, where the two books were written by the same writer, and she hasn't even been seen in a Hawkeye title since Fraction's ended.

    I'm sure that this is totally normal comic book treatment for 75% of characters and I'm only noticing it because I pay more attention to her, but it seems like compared with my other favorite characters, her story hasn't really progressed at all since 2011.

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    In April, Bobbi will be in 2020 Force Works #3 and probably in Black Panther and the Agents of Wakanda #8 (she's on the cover). The description for Captain America #21 is vague again this month so it's hard to predict. And last but not least, the Agents of Wakanda will be involved in Empyre: Avengers, but we don't know exactly which members.

    https://www.newsarama.com/48729-marv...citations.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by OOTCS View Post
    In April, Bobbi will be in 2020 Force Works #3 and probably in Black Panther and the Agents of Wakanda #8 (she's on the cover). The description for Captain America #21 is vague again this month so it's hard to predict. And last but not least, the Agents of Wakanda will be involved in Empyre: Avengers, but we don't know exactly which members.

    https://www.newsarama.com/48729-marv...citations.html
    There's nothing specifically referring to her as of yet, but I also wonder if we'll see Mockingbird in the TASKMASTER miniseries. The solicit refers to "the greatest spies in the business" hunting him down for allegedly murdering Maria Hill, and that this adventure will "send ripples through every corner of the Marvel Universe's espionage community".

    Bobbi is part of that espionage community, and she has history with both Taskmaster and Maria Hill from her days in the Secret Avengers. It would make sense for her to turn up.

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    Has she ever interacted with Black Panther before this series? I can’t recall a time which is why it’s my choice here.

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