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  1. #16
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    Why don't we direct our attention to the sad state of "journalism" wherein these directors completely unrelated to superhero movies are being bated into commenting on superhero movies just to generate clickbait headlines?

    Isn't that the real question? Isn't perhaps that where we should direct our ire?
    This right here. Journalists are clearly rage baiting these guys for headlines. Modern journalism is become toxic piece of crap.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Scorsese never made a Dracula film.

    This is also not true, a lot of filmmakers make movies for totally different reasons than selling a product. It is akin to writing a novel, or painting a piece. They're making some kind of art. Studios may sell that art, sure- but that isn't the primary goal of the auteur. You cannot compare that to making a THOR movie, which is a studio product from top to bottom. Sometimes there's crossover, and a film can be made that is both a vision and a product- but Marvel Studios has risen to prominence with their products because of the overall sameness of their flicks. They're movie serials, just in movie form.

    I guess it is somewhat similar to comics. You can write Spider Man and get paid, but you're going to also want to make your own stuff. It is not as prevalent in comics though, since you can put a true authorial/artistic stamp on a Batman comic that you can not make on Disney's Marvel's The Avengers 6: Spiderman 12.
    I'm well aware he didn't I just needed an example.

    The point is that the company is successful whereas you'd be hard pressed to have them get the spotlight or even work anymore. The public as a whole respects movies like Dracula or Godfather, they just don't give enough of a damn about it for the directors to continually gain work or the prominence they used to. It's also worth noting is that nobody just drops millions on a film and expects little to nothing in return. Movies are investments regardless of the creator or its intent.
    At the end of the day they want to make their own thing, come from a very different background, and just don't have the same appeal something like Captain Marvel or Hulk did. It's not surprising that they wouldn't care or be against Marvel's success.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Instead of Hollywood, we have the nuanced views of a French film-maker. Olivier Assayas was asked his opinion on Scorsese's attack on the MCU. His views are interesting because he actually declares himself to be a fan of the X-Men comics and cites Claremont by name.

    http://www.darkhorizons.com/olivier-...perhero-films/

    Don’t think Assayas is some elitist cinephile snob though. Assayas is a comic book fan who has seen the films like everyone else and has a soft spot for the X-Men comics scripted by Chris Claremont in the 1980s because: “He created a rich and complex universe and narrative forms which seemed to be much more daring than what Hollywood cinema wanted to explore back then.”

    He also says he has no prejudice about Marvel universe adaptations, but isn’t a big fan of the MCU films and has specific reasons why:

    “The film adaptations of the X-Men, which are not the worst, do not demonstrate comparable originality [to the comics]. But like other recent Marvel movies, I find them terribly sanitized. The whole ‘Avengers’ cycle, in particular, seemed particularly fishy to me. The narration is simplified to the extreme and the transgressive eroticism that some screenwriters injected into these comics, and which was a big part of their interest, has completely disappeared… I insist on the fact that if we want to understand what Scorsese is talking about, we must not forget that he does not evoke superhero cinema in general but what the Marvel universe turned into today’s universe. These are two different questions.”
    Assayas is a major award winning director at festivals, who made a number of films like Carlos, Irma Vep (which is a comedy about French movies trying to make a superhero movie), Something in the Air, and the recent movie with Kristen Stewart called Personal Shopper.

    He's among Chris Claremont's highest profile fans.

  4. #19
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    It's odd that content that made it into Comics Code Approved comic books needs an R rated movie for a proper screen treatment.
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  5. #20
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Instead of Hollywood, we have the nuanced views of a French film-maker. Olivier Assayas was asked his opinion on Scorsese's attack on the MCU. His views are interesting because he actually declares himself to be a fan of the X-Men comics and cites Claremont by name.

    http://www.darkhorizons.com/olivier-...perhero-films/



    Assayas is a major award winning director at festivals, who made a number of films like Carlos, Irma Vep (which is a comedy about French movies trying to make a superhero movie), Something in the Air, and the recent movie with Kristen Stewart called Personal Shopper.

    He's among Chris Claremont's highest profile fans.
    This is interesting, I totally get what he's saying.

  6. #21
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Instead of Hollywood, we have the nuanced views of a French film-maker. Olivier Assayas was asked his opinion on Scorsese's attack on the MCU. His views are interesting because he actually declares himself to be a fan of the X-Men comics and cites Claremont by name.

    http://www.darkhorizons.com/olivier-...perhero-films/



    Assayas is a major award winning director at festivals, who made a number of films like Carlos, Irma Vep (which is a comedy about French movies trying to make a superhero movie), Something in the Air, and the recent movie with Kristen Stewart called Personal Shopper.

    He's among Chris Claremont's highest profile fans.
    See, I can respect and even agree with that opinion. I even understand what Scorsese and even Coppala are trying to say, though the last film of Coppala's I can even vaguely remember was released back in 1997, so maybe he shouldn't even get a say. But fuck Terry Gilliam. The guy is just pissed that his movies make no money, and that nobody's cared about a movie of his since The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, and that was only because it was Leger's last performance.

  7. #22
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I'm well aware he didn't I just needed an example.

    The point is that the company is successful whereas you'd be hard pressed to have them get the spotlight or even work anymore. The public as a whole respects movies like Dracula or Godfather, they just don't give enough of a damn about it for the directors to continually gain work or the prominence they used to. It's also worth noting is that nobody just drops millions on a film and expects little to nothing in return. Movies are investments regardless of the creator or its intent.
    At the end of the day they want to make their own thing, come from a very different background, and just don't have the same appeal something like Captain Marvel or Hulk did. It's not surprising that they wouldn't care or be against Marvel's success.
    I think saying "they dont find work anymore" is a pretty wild statement since they very much do, the industry is just changing rapidly. These big Marvel studio monsters are going to strangle out the last of the megaplexes before they eventually just go straight to Disney Plus. The Irishman, which is not for me, is still making a big splash- maybe even a bigger splash than THOR 3 or whatever. Not everyone wants to watch THOR 3, ya know? Lots of people aren't interested in watching extended toy commercials.

    As for movies being investments, sure- but we are talking about filmmakers here. Why do you think so many filmmakers go make a sanitized MCU flick and then make they're own stuff on the side? They're playing the game as the game is laid out at this time, they're getting paid and then doing real work elsewhere.

    Again, not always the case- the Dark Knight movies say something. Logan said something. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam- these all have vision. I'm sure Matt Reeves' Batman is going to be distinct. We need stuff like THAT.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 01-06-2020 at 05:18 AM.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    I even understand what Scorsese and even Coppala are trying to say, though the last film of Coppala's I can even vaguely remember was released back in 1997, so maybe he shouldn't even get a say.
    The director of The Godfather, The Godfather Part II, Apocalypse Now, The Conversation (to say nothing of such underrated cult classics as The Rain People, One from the Heart, Rumble Fish, Tucker the Man and his Dream, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and among his recent stuff Tetro) gets to have a say for all time.

    This guy discovered Al Pacino, Robert Duvall, Harrison Ford, his nephew Nicolas Cage, and more recently Alden Ehrenreich, and he was mentor to George Lucas. He was the undisputed leader of the entire New Hollywood generation, he opened doors for Scorsese, Schrader and many others, who all stood in line to pay court to him (not unlike how people came to Don Corleone in the opening of Godfather I) at his offices.

    Put all the MCU combined, and it still doesn't match his achievement with Godfather I alone.

    But fuck Terry Gilliam. The guy is just pissed that his movies make no money, and that nobody's cared about a movie of his since The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, and that was only because it was Leger's last performance.
    I happen to think Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus was great, as was his most recent film The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. I do think his recent comments are pretty dumb but Gilliam is very much a guy whose heart is in the right place, but his mouth is gagged with his foot, and he tends to say a lot of dumb things.

    I do agree that he's uneven as a film-maker.

  9. #24
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The director of The Godfather, The Godfather Part II, Apocalypse Now, The Conversation (to say nothing of such underrated cult classics as The Rain People, One from the Heart, Rumble Fish, Tucker the Man and his Dream, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and among his recent stuff Tetro) gets to have a say for all time.

    This guy discovered Al Pacino, Robert Duvall, Harrison Ford, his nephew Nicolas Cage, and more recently Alden Ehrenreich, and he was mentor to George Lucas. He was the undisputed leader of the entire New Hollywood generation, he opened doors for Scorsese, Schrader and many others, who all stood in line to pay court to him (not unlike how people came to Don Corleone in the opening of Godfather I) at his offices.

    Put all the MCU combined, and it still doesn't match his achievement with Godfather I alone.



    I happen to think Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus was great, as was his most recent film The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. I do think his recent comments are pretty dumb but Gilliam is very much a guy whose heart is in the right place, but his mouth is gagged with his foot, and he tends to say a lot of dumb things.

    I do agree that he's uneven as a film-maker.
    Don't get me wrong. I love the Godfather and Godfather 2. I love and own every version of Apocalypse Now. I remember liking Dracula, though I haven't seen it in years. And I know he's still producing movies, even if he isn't directing as much. But he's had plenty of flops as well. It's just I remember reading his comments, and thinking he was coming off as a little bitter.

    Gilliam- he just sounds like a bitter old man complaining that everyone else's movies make way more money than his do, and that's not fair! Please....


    I get that Disney and Marvel and shoving blockbusters down our throats, and as a result smaller, more artistic films are becoming harder and harder to see or even get made. And that is a shame. I enjoy Marvel movies, but sometimes I just want to watch something different, something unique. And I love Scorsese, and I see what he is saying and agree with it to a point. It's becoming harder and harder to get those movies made. To me, that just says that these directors need to adapt and do what Scorsese did, and go to Netflix or Amazon to get their movies made.

  10. #25
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    Hey, I'm old. I'm not as old as these guys, but I'm old enough to be insulted when people use "old" as a slur. That's just as bad as discriminating against someone on the basis of gender, skin colour, religion, orientation or body size. We can do better.
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  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Eventually people are gonna mount a backlash at the millennials, you know. That’s how it works.

    People will go after millennials for their 90s nostalgia, for being easy marks for Disney, for basically leaning on corporations to participate in cancel culture and boycotts.

    It will be “okay millennial” or “ZOMG millennial”

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Eventually people are gonna mount a backlash at the millennials, you know. That’s how it works.

    People will go after millennials for their 90s nostalgia, for being easy marks for Disney, for basically leaning on corporations to participate in cancel culture and boycotts.

    It will be “okay millennial” or “ZOMG millennial”
    Millennials getting attacked by the media isnt exactly new. People shit on Disney but never ask why orher movie corporations cant get their shit together. Also cancel culture isn't a big deal. If it worked like people thought then Dave Chapelle wouldn't get work anymore, its just people calling people out for shitty behaviour.

  13. #28
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Didnt we do this thread already?

    Anyway its personal taste. The conspiracy theory stuff isnt worth addressing anymore and as far as Millenilas being easy Mark's. The fanbase of these movies isnt limited to millenials. And I'm not sure if I understand how people paying to watch movies they like makes them a mark. Cancel culture is silly but most people dont give a f#*#. It's a loud minority of people online. They can cry and whine about Chappele making Jokes about LGBTQ people but regular people who watched his stand up saw the intent and Humor behind it. And it was a insanely well liked special. Social media and just Media and journalism in general gives us these twisted views of reality. It's like the Singer Genuwine supposedly being called transphobic becuase he said he wouldnt sleep with a trans women and it's a big news story. Then you find out it was like 10 people on Twitter and the News decided to run it like it was some huge event. The perception is people were outraged when in reality a couple people were but it made a good clickbait headline.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    The fanbase of these movies isnt limited to millenials.
    Why do people attack elder film-makers for being "boomers" or whatever then, especially when Scorsese isn't a boomer?

    Especially so when, as Alan Moore (who is a boomer, albeit an English one) pointed out, that the cultural products of boomer childhood are squatting squarely at the center of the mainstream of millennial culture and so on.

    And I'm not sure if I understand how people paying to watch movies they like makes them a mark.
    Stuff like people cheering when Disney bought out Fox, or going after Sony when the Spider-Man deal fell through, are good examples of that. As is taking Bob Iger and other MCU people's side over outsider film-makers simply because they make some Iron Man toy commercials.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    People shit on Disney but never ask why orher movie corporations cant get their shit together.
    People do that all the time. There's far more crapping on other film studios than there is on Disney. You think movies like Joker or Venom would have gotten half the scrutiny they did if Disney/Marvel weren't involved?

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