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  1. #76
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro 216 View Post
    Why can't we have both exciting realistic films and silly spandex films? I don't see the need to make this an us vs them narrative when all parties just want people showing up to watch. It isn't like no one came to see Irishman.
    Martin Scorsese and company never said superhero films shouldn't exist, they just made the claim they weren't cinema. This sentiment isn't new, but recently a lot of MCU fans have convinced themselves, coming off the high of Endgame, that, yes, the MCU is a cinematic masterpiece and so this statement threw a wrench in their narrative.
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  2. #77
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Martin Scorsese and company never said superhero films shouldn't exist, they just made the claim they weren't cinema. This sentiment isn't new, but recently a lot of MCU fans have convinced themselves, coming off the high of Endgame, that, yes, the MCU is a cinematic masterpiece and so this statement threw a wrench in their narrative.
    I think there's a healthy middle ground between saying the MCU is a cinamatic master piece, and not considering it cinama whatsoever. If Martin had simply said MCU movies were simply cinama that he didn't like (as opposed to claiming it's not cinema at all) I don't think we'd be discussing this as we speak.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think there's a healthy middle ground between saying the MCU is a cinamatic master piece, and not considering it cinama whatsoever. If Martin had simply said MCU movies were simply cinama that he didn't like (as opposed to claiming it's not cinema at all) I don't think we'd be discussing this as we speak.
    Correct. He said the equivalent of "broccoli is not food" instead of "I don't care for broccoli". It's an objectively stupid remark to express a totally reasonable opinion. He should've just stated the opinion like a reasonable person.

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Yeah, the guy can think what he wants about whether the movies are good or bad and what metric we should be applying to consider the question, but once he set himself up as a gatekeeper, that really negates everything.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Looking it up, "Cinema" can mean, "A theater where movies are shown for public entertainment, a movie theater" or "The production of movies as an art or industry".
    '
    Obviously, by the former, the MCU is cinema. By the latter, it is still cinema since it says "art" (highly subjective) or "industry" which is pretty straightforward.

    But art is subjective. To quote the Jack Nicholson Joker: "I don't know if it's art but I know I like it".

    To say it's not art would be to say that none of the directors, writers or anyone else was intending to tell a good story or had any considerations but money. Saying that the corporate people at the studio only care about how much it makes eliminates even some of the greatest movies because that's still what the corporate suits cared about.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  6. #81
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Looking it up, "Cinema" can mean, "A theater where movies are shown for public entertainment, a movie theater" or "The production of movies as an art or industry".
    '
    Obviously, by the former, the MCU is cinema. By the latter, it is still cinema since it says "art" (highly subjective) or "industry" which is pretty straightforward.

    But art is subjective. To quote the Jack Nicholson Joker: "I don't know if it's art but I know I like it".
    When Scorsese and company say 'art' and 'cinematic' I think their referring more to a genre or tone than necessarily an aloof, abstract feeling of what cinema is. They're more or less speaking of art as you and I would speak of 'sci-fi' or 'fantasy' genres.
    To say it's not art would be to say that none of the directors, writers or anyone else was intending to tell a good story or had any considerations but money. Saying that the corporate people at the studio only care about how much it makes eliminates even some of the greatest movies because that's still what the corporate suits cared about.
    Funny thing is, I've recently argued that the comments uttered by Iger and so on defending the MCU to demonstrate that the people in charge of Disney do think they're creating products of value.

    I don't think Scorsese's comments about the MCU not being art has anything to do with money, as his own movies make money.
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  7. #82
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think there's a healthy middle ground between saying the MCU is a cinamatic master piece, and not considering it cinama whatsoever. If Martin had simply said MCU movies were simply cinama that he didn't like (as opposed to claiming it's not cinema at all) I don't think we'd be discussing this as we speak.
    It really isn't a controversial statement though. Most of the journalists that give favourable views too MCU fans will not classify a single MCU film as cinema. The only reason why MCU fans got upset is because they think being 'not cinema' means its bad, which it isn't. A movie can be good without it being cinema.
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  8. #83
    Fantastic Member Marvelgirl's Avatar
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    Scorsese got triggered for right reasons. MCU movies have embarrassed cinema long enough. They are fast foods for an audience who don't want to think. MCU has bragged about their dumb spoofy films countless times. Hollywood directors are right to show distaste for that type of cinema. Scorsese should not worry much, MCU films will phase out soon. Does any one of you remember Endgame came out last year by the time 2020 was coming to an end?

  9. #84
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    It really isn't a controversial statement though. Most of the journalists that give favourable views too MCU fans will not classify a single MCU film as cinema. The only reason why MCU fans got upset is because they think being 'not cinema' means its bad, which it isn't. A movie can be good without it being cinema.
    Can you show me this majority of Journalist who like the MCU but think it's not Cinema? Cause I just dont buy any serious amount of people saying art shown in a theater isnt cinema. And to say it isnt art is ridiculous. The MCU, BVS, catwoman,The Room, Replicas, spiderman 3, Dark Phoenix, avatar etc... are all without a doubt art. Someone personaly might not find value in that art but like other have said its Subjective and most certainly art. Again it's all subjective Spielberg thinks Guardians of the Galaxy is a better movie then The dark Knight. And as someone who loves GOTG I disagree. Mileage varies but its all art and Cinema.


    @MARVELGirl

    Its was the biggest movie of the year I doubt anyne forgot it came out last year. You clearly remember

  10. #85
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    I need to see more Taika Waititi movies. Didn't know his body of work was making Guardians of the Galaxy kind of films before he got the job for Thor 3.

  11. #86
    Fantastic Member Maestro 216's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Scorsese got triggered for right reasons. MCU movies have embarrassed cinema long enough. They are fast foods for an audience who don't want to think. MCU has bragged about their dumb spoofy films countless times. Hollywood directors are right to show distaste for that type of cinema. Scorsese should not worry much, MCU films will phase out soon. Does any one of you remember Endgame came out last year by the time 2020 was coming to an end?
    Ahh the classic SuPeRhErO fAtIgUe phrase. I can't wait for the box office of next year to see if that phrase will mean something or not.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro 216 View Post
    Ahh the classic SuPeRhErO fAtIgUe phrase. I can't wait for the box office of next year to see if that phrase will mean something or not.
    You clearly can't read the signs right. If a superhero movie does bad, then it's a sign of superhero fatigue is happening. If a superhero movie does well, it's a sign that superhero movies have peaked and that superhero fatigue is happening.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    When Scorsese and company say 'art' and 'cinematic' I think their referring more to a genre or tone than necessarily an aloof, abstract feeling of what cinema is. They're more or less speaking of art as you and I would speak of 'sci-fi' or 'fantasy' genres.


    Funny thing is, I've recently argued that the comments uttered by Iger and so on defending the MCU to demonstrate that the people in charge of Disney do think they're creating products of value.

    I don't think Scorsese's comments about the MCU not being art has anything to do with money, as his own movies make money.
    It might help is someone who says that Marvel/Disney/Superhero/Blockbuster movies aren't cinema, actually defined what cinema is.

    Instead, all I've heard is some vague mutterings about art and passion and vision. I keep getting the feeling that the argument boils down to "I don't like it, so it's not art/cinema/worthy of praise/etc."

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvelgirl View Post
    Scorsese got triggered for right reasons. MCU movies have embarrassed cinema long enough. They are fast foods for an audience who don't want to think. MCU has bragged about their dumb spoofy films countless times. Hollywood directors are right to show distaste for that type of cinema. Scorsese should not worry much, MCU films will phase out soon. Does any one of you remember Endgame came out last year by the time 2020 was coming to an end?
    You know that MCU movies are made in Hollywood Right? And the rest is just your opinion. That does not make it Gospel. Or is already false like "Will anyone remember Endgame came out end of the year?" I will take any bet on that against you.

  15. #90
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    I don't know about "fatigue", but certainly Endgame seems like a reasonable jumping-off point for more casual fans, as it works pretty well as an mcu finale. While it is a big mistake to underestimate marvel studios at this point, its hard for me to get too excited about the Eternals, and Black Widow seems like it will be cool but at the same time it seems to be looking backwards instead of moving the mcu "forward" . I wish we were getting either BP 2, Thor 4, or Doc Strange 2 this year instead. But time will tell and at this time next year i could be totally psyched about an Eternals sequel and/or seeing Yelena take on the Black Widow mantle.

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