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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The sex and drugs thing is a little strange though.

    Marvel is making PG-13 superhero movies, like majority of most other studios.

    Why should Marvel starting adding in content that will likely take their movies into R-rated territory when they are explicitly trying to avoid that? Even the comics rarely ever deal with stuff like that. It's like saying that Star Wars and Harry Potter should start dealing with "adult" stuff when that isn't even the point.

    It's a very, very strange argument.
    Its because they have no argument so fall back on ridiculous stuff like this.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Its because they have no argument so fall back on ridiculous stuff like this.
    Sounds Right to me.

  3. #138
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Its because they have no argument so fall back on ridiculous stuff like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The sex and drugs thing is a little strange though.

    Marvel is making PG-13 superhero movies, like majority of most other studios.

    Why should Marvel starting adding in content that will likely take their movies into R-rated territory when they are explicitly trying to avoid that? Even the comics rarely ever deal with stuff like that. It's like saying that Star Wars and Harry Potter should start dealing with "adult" stuff when that isn't even the point.

    It's a very, very strange argument.
    strange? no argument to fall back on? are you kidding me?

    Can I as a question? but did you ever read comics? marvel or DC? it sounds as if your knowledge of marvel is limited to what you see in the mcu only.

    both comics have heavily tackled drinking and drug issues. its not strange or a ridiculous argument. pick up an x-men comic for example, they featured there occasionally. I made a thread on x books 4 months back about cyclops complicated sex life that had 500 replies.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...me-along/page3

    this is a story of a married man that starts a sexual affair with another woman, who came to him as a sex therapist. , she will also dress up as his wife to have sex with him. sick huh?

    there have been many bolder issue of marvel such as x-force: sex and violence.

    517DnIYk3sL._SY445_QL70_.jpg

    Lastly this is a marvel movie, not in the MCU. Sex is heavily implied there because the comics draws soft nudity,



    That makes 3 factual situation I have given you to show this stuff exist in marvel, Marvel can and has addressed a lot of the issues. it is Disney that taking them away in movies.

    I will always get shocked to say this, I still cant believe many mcu fans don't really know much about marvel comics.

  4. #139
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    And you Keep ignoring that any movie not rated R does not include stuff like this. That is what we are Talking About. If you really think Fox would have included something even as tame as Mystique and Destiny being a couple in a movie not called Deadpool once again either your bias is showing or you have very limited Knowledge About movies getting made esp. in the USA. To say Nothing About the mentioned X-Force mini.

    And finally what Shows up in a Comic is not the issue. What gets in a movie is your issue so once again Stark and the Guardians were examples of Things more mature than the rest. Not so different than the regular X-men movies.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Dr strange just lost its director because his creative freedom was taken from him, wonder if he would join the list in the future of directors ''hating'' mcu movies
    You’ve talked about how WB and Fox give filmmaker support and creative freedom, but the same thing has happened to those studiously. Why is is okey when WB or ‘Fox lose directors but bad when Disney loses a director?

    Do you not see how you’ are using a double standard?

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    And you Keep ignoring that any movie not rated R does not include stuff like this. That is what we are Talking About. If you really think Fox would have included something even as tame as Mystique and Destiny being a couple in a movie not called Deadpool once again either your bias is showing or you have very limited Knowledge About movies getting made esp. in the USA. To say Nothing About the mentioned X-Force mini.

    .
    The DOFP movie is PG 13. not only is there heavily implied sex, xavier is shown multiple times using what looks like a heroin to treat his depression and paralysis. so drug abuse does exist in marvel.

    R can be overrated, there are many things that can still fit the ranges of pg 13. MCU PG 13 because of Disney is far far more unnecessary restricted when you look back from Iron Man 1. then, Disney had not bought marvel. Additionally, marvel were using more practical effects on his suits compared to now that is all animated CGI.

    And finally what Shows up in a Comic is not the issue. What gets in a movie is your issue so once again Stark and the Guardians were examples of Things more mature than the rest. Not so different than the regular X-men movies.
    Yes, because what shows up in the movies are not really the comics of the story. if mcu movies were telling the comics stories, most of the these directors won't hate their movies. I think a lot of these directors as long as the cast in the films are grown ups, they expect mature things from the movie.

    I agree for stark in iron man 1, that is the most mature stark we got. we know this because his sequels had many problems, one of the actors even admitted marvel started dumbing down the iron man movies and he had no intentions to ever return to the iron man films.

    For GOTG. It should not have been a comedy. That movie was full on a Disney film. am surprised they didn't even burst into songs at one point..
    Last edited by Beaddle; 01-10-2020 at 04:20 AM.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post


    Yes, because what shows up in the movies are not really the comics of the story they are Disney originally folklore. if mcu movies were telling the comics stories, most of the these directors won't hate their movies.

    I agree for stark in iron man 1, that is the most mature stark we got. we know this because his sequels had many problems, one of the actors even admitted marvel started dumbing down the iron man movie and he had no intentions to ever return to the iron an films.

    For GOTG. It should not have been a comedy.
    And you Keep ignoring the X-men movies doing the same using originally Folklore as you put it. That is Always the case with that Kind of movie.
    Stark had his Problems throughout all movies. His PSCD showed up regualry. So the Mature Iron Man as you put it was part of the movies till the end.
    You mean Rourke with the Actor not returning, i think? You would have more weight with that Argument with a more main Actor. And with a character not dead.

    The last Storm Actor was not keen to return to the X-men after the last two movies, because her role was not very big. Did you post with the same vigor you attack the MCU with Rourke your prime example? No? wonder why?

    And last yes the GOTG movies had Comedy Elements. But that does not mean it was all fun. the Cast all had horrible stuff happened to them that would make Xaviers implied drug abuse small stuff. And compared to real drugs he got off easily and could even walk again. Compare that to movies like Train spotting for example and than try to say they were mature.
    Last edited by lowfyr; 01-10-2020 at 04:53 AM.

  8. #143
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    strange? no argument to fall back on? are you kidding me?

    Can I as a question? but did you ever read comics? marvel or DC? it sounds as if your knowledge of marvel is limited to what you see in the mcu only.

    both comics have heavily tackled drinking and drug issues. its not strange or a ridiculous argument. pick up an x-men comic for example, they featured there occasionally. I made a thread on x books 4 months back about cyclops complicated sex life that had 500 replies.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...me-along/page3

    this is a story of a married man that starts a sexual affair with another woman, who came to him as a sex therapist. , she will also dress up as his wife to have sex with him. sick huh?

    there have been many bolder issue of marvel such as x-force: sex and violence.

    517DnIYk3sL._SY445_QL70_.jpg

    Lastly this is a marvel movie, not in the MCU. Sex is heavily implied there because the comics draws soft nudity,



    That makes 3 factual situation I have given you to show this stuff exist in marvel, Marvel can and has addressed a lot of the issues. it is Disney that taking them away in movies.

    I will always get shocked to say this, I still cant believe many mcu fans don't really know much about marvel comics.
    The strange part of the arguement is where lacking sex somehow makes a movie not cinema. It may mean it's cinema certain people may not like... but it's still cinema.

    I have read PLENTY of comic books.... and plenty don't have sex at all. That doesn't magically mean they stop being comic books simply because there's no sex in it. People may want sex in the comic and that's fine... but it's still a comic book regardless. Like like MCU movies are still cinema regardless.

    That's the part which is strange.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    strange? no argument to fall back on? are you kidding me?

    Can I as a question? but did you ever read comics? marvel or DC? it sounds as if your knowledge of marvel is limited to what you see in the mcu only.

    both comics have heavily tackled drinking and drug issues. its not strange or a ridiculous argument. pick up an x-men comic for example, they featured there occasionally. I made a thread on x books 4 months back about cyclops complicated sex life that had 500 replies.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...me-along/page3

    this is a story of a married man that starts a sexual affair with another woman, who came to him as a sex therapist. , she will also dress up as his wife to have sex with him. sick huh?

    there have been many bolder issue of marvel such as x-force: sex and violence.

    517DnIYk3sL._SY445_QL70_.jpg

    Lastly this is a marvel movie, not in the MCU. Sex is heavily implied there because the comics draws soft nudity,



    That makes 3 factual situation I have given you to show this stuff exist in marvel, Marvel can and has addressed a lot of the issues. it is Disney that taking them away in movies.

    I will always get shocked to say this, I still cant believe many mcu fans don't really know much about marvel comics.
    What you posted didn't reply what we said. The talk about not reading Marvel comics is just a strawman dude.

    We said the comics "rarely" address this. And they very rarely do. Characters like Thor, Iron Man, X-men e.t.c have been in print for decades and only have a handful issues dedicated to such.

    If its not the norm in the comics, then why should the movies address them? It just doesn't make any sense. And if I am looking for nudity, i can watch erotic dramas or porn. Why do I need nudity in my superhero movies.??
    Last edited by Username taken; 01-10-2020 at 05:33 AM.
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  10. #145
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    The sex and drugs thing is a little strange though.

    Marvel is making PG-13 superhero movies, like majority of most other studios.

    Why should Marvel starting adding in content that will likely take their movies into R-rated territory when they are explicitly trying to avoid that? Even the comics rarely ever deal with stuff like that. It's like saying that Star Wars and Harry Potter should start dealing with "adult" stuff when that isn't even the point.

    It's a very, very strange argument.
    I provided two examples when I made my argument; Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor and MJ and Spiderman from Spiderman 1. These are PG-13 films, yet these relationships display an intimacy between their characters that the MCU can never match because they acknowledge the characters as sexual actors. FYI, I'm not the only one bringing this up; here is an article from 2017 and I've heard this claim before too.

    How are we suppose to believe that MCU characters are emotive, human beings when they appear to lack an intrinsic desire that nearly all of us hold? None of them are asexual either, they are supposed to be sexual actors that desire to be intimate with others, but that is never depicted in the films themselves.

    Also, the Captain America thing is honestly cringe if you think about it too; The 'beta' Steve gets the 'chad' formula which allows him to swoon Peggy. Even though they fought Hydra for like a year, the only intimacy they share is like a Church kiss or something (because once again, light kissing is the closest form of intimacy we see in the MCU), but that's enough for Captain America that he never gets over this woman for like 10 years or however long the MCU supposedly is, until he decides to time travel back to be with his love with his chastity fully intact.

    This is not how humans behave.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 01-10-2020 at 06:27 AM.
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  11. #146
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    I think a part of it is that the Marvel approach decenters directors as the driving force behind filmmaking.

    As such, power auteurs reject it.

    Taika Watiti and James Gunn might be mistaken for auteurs but I think they’re more collaborative idiosyncratic bootstrappers who love a challenge, like Justin Lin.

    Similar for audiences: I think if you buy into directors as filmmakers (and no one else; everyone supports the director’s vision) then Marvel movies will probably have less to offer.

    If you have more of a TV mentality where filmmaking centers on writer/producer collaboration with actors where directors are more of a hired hand, a strong cinematographer with stage directing chops to work with actors but not the feature attraction as much, Marvel movies have more to offer.

    And I’m not dismissing directors as important on TV. Off the top of my head, certain Buffy or Blacklist or Breaking Bad directors created the visual language of those shows. You can spot when Justin Lin directed an episode of Community. Kevin Smith directed TV shows offer something extra. But the scripts and the actors are bigger and unless it’s like the Russos who also produced shows and were a lasting presence, directors come and go. They’re more “memorable guest stars” in TV and Marvel movies, not the driving force.

    J.J. Abrams or Zach Snyder try to be the driving force on franchise films and that can honestly be overbearing for people not THAT into the director-as-visionary model. Some of us just want a director to be handed a script and make it pretty, tonally resonant, and well edited.

  12. #147
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The DOFP movie is PG 13. not only is there heavily implied sex, xavier is shown multiple times using what looks like a heroin to treat his depression and paralysis. so drug abuse does exist in marvel.

    R can be overrated, there are many things that can still fit the ranges of pg 13. MCU PG 13 because of Disney is far far more unnecessary restricted when you look back from Iron Man 1. then, Disney had not bought marvel. Additionally, marvel were using more practical effects on his suits compared to now that is all animated CGI.



    Yes, because what shows up in the movies are not really the comics of the story. if mcu movies were telling the comics stories, most of the these directors won't hate their movies. I think a lot of these directors as long as the cast in the films are grown ups, they expect mature things from the movie.

    I agree for stark in iron man 1, that is the most mature stark we got. we know this because his sequels had many problems, one of the actors even admitted marvel started dumbing down the iron man movies and he had no intentions to ever return to the iron man films.

    For GOTG. It should not have been a comedy. That movie was full on a Disney film. am surprised they didn't even burst into songs at one point..
    Huh? Since when does Heroin make paralyzed people walk again? He taking a drug that gives him his legs back but blocks his powers. It's clearly not heroin.


    GoTG is written around the idea ofbTrauma and how you deal with it. Gunn himself states that he wrote the character of rocket as a lab experiment who was tortured and disregarded first and then wrote the rest the movie around the premise of of a group of people who all experienced extreme trauma finding a home with each other . And each character represents a different way people cope with Trauma. Rocket internalized everything and lashes out at people too keep them at a distance. Peter refuses to take anything serious to avoid it. And Gamora his highly organized and focues her pain into being goal orientated to take some control. And then Drax just has a death wish. These movies deal with very adult themes but you choose to ignore that. As far as it being a comedy.. its a James Gunn movie, hes literaly known for his dark Humor. Spielberg's praise of the movie was it's funny tone but that it wasnt afraid to get Dark when nessecary.


    @Pinsir

    I agree overall the MCU hasnt done romance all that great and the ones that do work seem to get stuck in that will they wont they phase. But how on earth was Steve ever a Beta Male? Hes the smallest guy in the room but was willing to stand up to a gang of bullies and do whatever it took to serves his country. There nothing Beta about Steve's personality. Steve did also make out with his Gals great niece or whatever she is. So you can add that to the reasons you find it cringe.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 01-10-2020 at 06:15 AM.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I provided two examples when I made my argument; Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor and MJ and Spiderman from Spiderman 1. These are PG-13 films, yet these relationships display an intimacy between their characters that the MCU can never match because they acknowledge the characters as sexual actors. FYI, I'm not the only one bringing this up; here is an article from 2017 and I've heard this claim before too.

    How are we suppose to believe that MCU characters are emotive, human beings when they appear to lack a nearly intrinsic desire that all of us hold? None of them are asexual either, they are supposed to be sexual actors that desire to be intimate with others, but that is never depicted in the films themselves.

    Also, the Captain America thing is honestly cringe if you think about it too; The 'beta' Steve gets the 'chad' formula which allows him to swoon Peggy. Even though they fought Hydra for like a year, the only intimacy they share is like a Church kiss or something (because once again, light kissing is the closest form of intimacy we see in the MCU), but that's enough for Captain America that he never gets over this woman for like 10 years or however long the MCU supposedly is, until he decides to time travel back to be with his love with his chastity fully intact.

    This is not how humans behave.
    I'm not saying this with any hint of cynicism, i genuinely don't understand this. Like, at all.

    Different characters have different framing so to speak. Captain America's story was that he never lived the life and got the girl he wanted.

    Thor and Iron Man on the other hand have been in relationships. Pepper and Tony got married and had a daughter. Banner in the Incredible Hulk was explicitly shown as not being able to get intimate with anyone. Starlord has been shown to be quite "sexual" and Ant-Man is a divorced father.

    What I can see is that different characters have different framing but the overarching criticism about the lack of depiction of intimacy is a bit difficult to understand. Like beyond light kissing, what more do you want in the movies??
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    I provided two examples when I made my argument; Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor and MJ and Spiderman from Spiderman 1. These are PG-13 films, yet these relationships display an intimacy between their characters that the MCU can never match because they acknowledge the characters as sexual actors. FYI, I'm not the only one bringing this up; here is an article from 2017 and I've heard this claim before too.

    How are we suppose to believe that MCU characters are emotive, human beings when they appear to lack a nearly intrinsic desire that all of us hold? None of them are asexual either, they are supposed to be sexual actors that desire to be intimate with others, but that is never depicted in the films themselves.

    Also, the Captain America thing is honestly cringe if you think about it too; The 'beta' Steve gets the 'chad' formula which allows him to swoon Peggy. Even though they fought Hydra for like a year, the only intimacy they share is like a Church kiss or something (because once again, light kissing is the closest form of intimacy we see in the MCU), but that's enough for Captain America that he never gets over this woman for like 10 years or however long the MCU supposedly is, until he decides to time travel back to be with his love with his chastity fully intact.

    This is not how humans behave.
    intimacy and desire to be intimate with each other are not really the same. Holding Hands can Show more intimacy than what you imply. Diana and Steve Show not really much more than the night on the boat after that it is more like Steve and Peggy Fighting in a war. Them being in the bar after Bucky "died" Show more intimacy than them sleeping with each other.

    Not to Forget Quill is shown that he had one-night stands. So it is not really like the MCU movie lacks People shown having sex.
    Last edited by lowfyr; 01-10-2020 at 06:16 AM.

  15. #150
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Gerard View Post
    I think a part of it is that the Marvel approach decenters directors as the driving force behind filmmaking.

    As such, power auteurs reject it.

    Taika Watiti and James Gunn might be mistaken for auteurs but I think they’re more collaborative idiosyncratic bootstrappers who love a challenge, like Justin Lin.

    Similar for audiences: I think if you buy into directors as filmmakers (and no one else; everyone supports the director’s vision) then Marvel movies will probably have less to offer.

    If you have more of a TV mentality where filmmaking centers on writer/producer collaboration with actors where directors are more of a hired hand, a strong cinematographer with stage directing chops to work with actors but not the feature attraction as much, Marvel movies have more to offer.

    And I’m not dismissing directors as important on TV. Off the top of my head, certain Buffy or Blacklist or Breaking Bad directors created the visual language of those shows. You can spot when Justin Lin directed an episode of Community. Kevin Smith directed TV shows offer something extra. But the scripts and the actors are bigger and unless it’s like the Russos who also produced shows and were a lasting presence, directors come and go. They’re more “memorable guest stars” in TV and Marvel movies, not the driving force.

    J.J. Abrams or Zach Snyder try to be the driving force on franchise films and that can honestly be overbearing for people not THAT into the director-as-visionary model. Some of us just want a director to be handed a script and make it pretty, tonally resonant, and well edited.
    Funny thing is The Russos role in the MCU fits what your saying way more then Taika Waititi or James Gunn. Gunn has literaly said nobody understood GOTG. And he bumped head with the studio and the actors(Espeicaly Saldana). Untill he cut together a teaser for Comiccon only 2 weeks into filming. And then everyone finally got the Tone of the movie and Gunns Vision. And Gunn has said for GOTG vol 2 Feige gave him Carte blanche. He even talks about how controlling he can be when filming a movie and much he over prepares. Those movies are all him. Now his movies outside the MCU I dont know havent really looked into the process.

    Anyone working in the MCU has to Colab somewhat because they are agreeing to make a film in a shared universe but Gunn,Coogler,Waititi and a few others are very much driving forces behind their movies. The Russos are involved somewhat in every step but other people write the films and then on the Avengers flicks they bring in other directors to help like Gunn with all the Guardians stuff. But alot of these director arent hired Gunn these Films are their visions. I mean Waititi came to Mavrel with his pitch for taking Thor in a crazy new direction. He apparently let the Actors improvise alot of the comedy but other then that it's his vision. Hes even talked about he was shocked that Marvel never told him to tone it down after submitting the dailies. The MCU is for sure like TV in alot of ways but I feel like your doing some these directors a disservice by acting like these films weren't their vision. Especialy the two you picked out by name.

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