Hollywood Directors distate for the MCU...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And in any case, Fox made LOGAN (better than any MCU movie) and Deadpool (a total gamechanger) doing stuff that Marvel won't ever do.

[Jokerz79]

And in any case, Fox made LOGAN (better than any MCU movie) and Deadpool (a total gamechanger) doing stuff that Marvel won't ever do.

Ryan Reynolds had to leak test footage and take a lower budget hence the leaving the guns scene for Deadpool to get made and Logan also took budget cuts to get made as the director wanted let's not act like Fox wasn't extremely hesitant and conservative when making those films.

Also I like quite a few MCU films more than Logan on both subjective and objective levels.

[jetengine]

Those are both abberations tbh.

[U.N. Owen]

Scorcese just likes to shift the blame for the end of New Hollywood. Remember when he blamed Star Wars for "ruining cinema"?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Those are both abberations tbh.

If an abberation is possible with Fox then it's a still better movie studio than Disney, where everything is under totalitarian lockdown and no abberation or bad behavior or untoward is permitted.

Ryan Reynolds had to leak test footage and take a lower budget hence the leaving the guns scene for Deadpool to get made

But he got it made in the end, right? He didn't get fired or dressed down for going rogue on the company and undermining the studio heads who greenlight or reject the thing.

Imagine anyone working for Disney leaking footage and other stuff to shame them into making something. They would stamp the foot hard on that.

Scorcese just likes to shift the blame for the end of New Hollywood. Remember when he blamed Star Wars for "ruining cinema"?

He said that in the 70s when it needed to be said just like now, some 40 years later, when New Hollywood is long over, it needs to be said now against MCU. And Scorsese said that he liked Star Wars as a movie but not what it represented (which even Lucas agreed). Fun fact, Marcia Lucas worked on the edit of New York New York and A New Hope. Both movies released on the same day.

In any case, there are solid reasons to separate Lucas from the herd. Because in the 80s, Lucas as a producer greenlit a number of outsider movies like Body Heat by Lawrence Kasdan, Paul Schrader's Mishima, Akira Kurosawa's Kagemusha, Francis Ford Coppola's Tucker, as well as Koyanniqatsi. Lucas did give back to cinema, maybe not proportionate to what he took away, but he did far more than Disney and Iger have done.

[Username taken]

Scorcese just likes to shift the blame for the end of New Hollywood. Remember when he blamed Star Wars for "ruining cinema"?

Exactly my point before.

A lot of directors have blamed what's perceived as the "big shiny new thing" before. It's not unusual for older directors to rage against new stuff, especially massive blockbuster sci-fi or adjacent films, it's pretty much par for the course now. Although, Gilliam has been saying some ridiculous lately (like saying the Black Panther producers didn't go to Africa or the strawman that everyone blames "straight white men" for everything) and I don't put much coin in whatever it is he is saying.

I'm not even discounting what Scorsese and co have said, they are very much entitled to their own opinions, Marvel's movies are not for everyone. What baffles me is when folks back what these directors have said by citing Aquaman and Shazam as examples.

Like, how are these movies in anyway shape or form remotely different from Marvel's movies beyond the fact that the characters are owned by a different monster company???

[Immortal Weapon]

But he got it made in the end, right? He didn't get fired or dressed down for going rogue on the company and undermining the studio heads who greenlight or reject the thing.

Imagine anyone working for Disney leaking footage and other stuff to shame them into making something. They would stamp the foot hard on that.

Ryan Reynolds had to wait until Tom Rothman, the man who initially turned down the movie to get the boot from Fox for anything to happen. Fox wasn't shamed into anything. He got lucky that new management was willing to gave him a chance. Rothman is off at Sony where he can **** up Spider-Man.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Wasn't this all addressed in the last locked thread?

The last two threads, you mean?

[jetengine]

The last two threads, you mean?

Their all essentially "We hate the mcu" threads using crusty old directors as weapons

[Flash Gordon]

Exactly my point before.

A lot of directors have blamed what's perceived as the "big shiny new thing" before. It's not unusual for older directors to rage against new stuff, especially massive blockbuster sci-fi or adjacent films, it's pretty much par for the course now. Although, Gilliam has been saying some ridiculous lately (like saying the Black Panther producers didn't go to Africa or the strawman that everyone blames "straight white men" for everything) and I don't put much coin in whatever it is he is saying.

I'm not even discounting what Scorsese and co have said, they are very much entitled to their own opinions, Marvel's movies are not for everyone. What baffles me is when folks back what these directors have said by citing Aquaman and Shazam as examples.

Like, how are these movies in anyway shape or form remotely different from Marvel's movies beyond the fact that the characters are owned by a different monster company???

Aquaman and Shazam, like Logan, have distinct visions. They're not just part of an assembly line. You can see James Waan's fingerprints on Aquaman, unlike the MCU where you get really talented filmmakers like Ryan Coogler but take that authorship away.

You seem to want to make this about "old filmmakers" raging against pretty new toys, when there's really nothing new or pretty about these things. This is the exact kind of studio mumbo jumbo that these guys rebelled against in the first place. Disney is just doing it under the mask of Iron Man, so people want so badly to give it a pass.

[Immortal Weapon]

People do that all the time. There's far more crapping on other film studios than there is on Disney. You think movies like Joker or Venom would have gotten half the scrutiny they did if Disney/Marvel weren't involved?

The scrutiny Joker got was largely came from the press trying to push an agenda to get the movie cancelled.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

You seem to want to make this about "old filmmakers" raging against pretty new toys, when there's really nothing new or pretty about these things. This is the exact kind of studio mumbo jumbo that these guys rebelled against in the first place.

The most bizarre thing is many people equating the MCU to the kind of movies these guys did in the '70s.

When did Scorsese go, "Enough of these movies about gritty anti-heroes and villains as protagonists, let's do The Sound of Music II : The Marching Band."

Okay, yeah Coppola made a Gangster movie on a big scale and gave it respect so you can squint and see that as a way of making genre film-making legitimate, but Coppola's The Godfather wasn't like any gangster movie that came before. The gangster doesn't go to jail, he doesn't get punished, he doesn't repent, or so on. The superhero equivalent to The Godfather would be, Logan more so than Iron Man. It wouldn't be a generic, conventional, version of a story where you root for uncritically with the good guy over the bad guy and think that being a hero is something that's easy, that's aspirational, or unproblematic.

I mean Iron Man is an arms dealer who redeems himself. Coppola made Apocalypse Now, a movie about Vietnam that doesn't leave anyone redeemable at the end. The guy who's the hero, played by Martin Sheen, is still gonna massacre a boat full of innocent people for no real reason.

[Beaddle]

Instead of Hollywood, we have the nuanced views of a French film-maker. Olivier Assayas was asked his opinion on Scorsese's attack on the MCU. His views are interesting because he actually declares himself to be a fan of the X-Men comics and cites Claremont by name.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/olivier-...perhero-films/



Assayas is a major award winning director at festivals, who made a number of films like Carlos, Irma Vep (which is a comedy about French movies trying to make a superhero movie), Something in the Air, and the recent movie with Kristen Stewart called Personal Shopper.

He's among Chris Claremont's highest profile fans.

I wish the media covered this story news more. Is nowhere to be found, not one popular comic news source reported Olivier Assayas take on marvel. I know, I know, I know, the argument would be no one has ever really heard of him. But then again, I thought no one really heard of Marvel's Legion FX until Noah Hawley got hired for trek and people started saying how they are happy because they saw fargo and legion and he was a good fit for Trek for that alone.

Hopefully Olivier should check Legion out that Claremont was down with, his name was even on the show's credit and the show did everything Olivier said are lacking in the current marvel live action stuff. Same goes to the other hollywood directors. they should look beyond the MCU.

I said I would not comment on this thread but I too like many am sick of the marvel bashing, its gone too far and its not fair to all Marvels. its time for people...fans, that know Marvel beyond what Disney MCU does start fighting back against some of these directors, who are now becoming too ignorant for their own good.

[Username taken]

Aquaman and Shazam, like Logan, have distinct visions. They're not just part of an assembly line. You can see James Waan's fingerprints on Aquaman, unlike the MCU where you get really talented filmmakers like Ryan Coogler but take that authorship away.

Thor Ragnarok is very much a Waititi film just like how Shane Black is written all over Iron 3. Even Coogler's style comes through on Black Panther (references to Oakland, long unbroken takes e.t.c). We even got tons of dutch angles in the first Thor because its Kenneth Branagh style. This isn't just me making stuff up, these are facts.

You seem to want to make this about "old filmmakers" raging against pretty new toys, when there's really nothing new or pretty about these things. This is the exact kind of studio mumbo jumbo that these guys rebelled against in the first place. Disney is just doing it under the mask of Iron Man, so people want so badly to give it a pass.

I understand what they are getting at but this isn't the 70s. And when these guys were originally rebelling against the "institution" they had hardly attained the stature they have attained now.

While I understand the consternation at Disney dominating cinema, Marvel started producing their movies before Disney acquired them. Other studios jumped on the shared universe train because they were successful at this. WB for example have been producing superhero movies for decades but decided to have a cohesive shared universe because of Marvel's success.

Reading Coppola and Scorsese's statements (and even Ricky Gervais last night) what these guys are saying isn't the same as the "DCEU is good and MCU is bad" which is the point that I take issue with. They are making a general point against superhero movies but zeroing on Marvel because they are biggest around. WB would have produced practically as many superhero movies as Disney would have (we all remember that insane release schedule that WB put out years ago) but simply "couldn't" because their first attempts at the shared universe was met with mixed results at best. So to suggest that other companies are somehow more "ethical" than Disney is pretty ridiculous.

[Farealmer]

The last two threads, you mean?

Indeed, with posts so similar they could be copy pasted. Outside the politics general thread in community I've not seen a thread with so much arguing for so little agreement. The MCU existing is as serious as that it seems.