The recent behavior of the X-Men: right or wrong?

[QuinnFillory]

All right, so we have dealing with the whole Dawn of X for a while now. The X-Men have decided to no longer take crap from anyone, make their own country on Krakoa, and basically put themselves first at the expense of their relationship with everyone else. On the one hand, this makes sense; they have been on the brink of extermination for so long at the hands of humanity and others that they need to take care of themselves. Also, who wouldn't get fed up? However, they are supposed to be heroes, and they aren't acting very heroic at the moment. Also, they seemed to have given up on the dream of coexistence/

Are they right to behave this way, or are they wrong?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

All right, so we have dealing with the whole Dawn of X for a while now. The X-Men have decided to no longer take crap from anyone, make their own country on Krakoa, and basically put themselves first at the expense of their relationship with everyone else. On the one hand, this makes sense; they have been on the brink of extermination for so long at the hands of humanity and others that they need to take care of themselves. Also, who wouldn't get fed up? However, they are supposed to be heroes, and they aren't acting very heroic at the moment. Also, they seemed to have given up on the dream of coexistence/

Are they right to behave this way, or are they wrong?

Not wrong as far as nation building is concerned; it is generally accepted that a country should put the well-being of the people who live there first. However, this shouldn't take the form of bigoted or hateful ideologies, perpetuated on a broad-strokes level, for, example, as is seen from characters such as Apocalypse, Sinister, Shaw and, to some extent, Emma and Magneto (to varying degrees.)

Fighting said hateful ideologies and bigotry: awesome.

Perpetuating it: not so much.

But then, that's an over-simplified view of the impression that one reader is getting from the over-all approach and doesn't address some more of the more minor issues between:

What does separating the species actually mean?

Some users argue that co-existence is still happening, but on a global level, which equates to the original dream being realised in a much bigger, more effective. I don't necessarily agree. For example: I live in the UK, a country which also deals with masses of other countries on an equal global level--politically the UK (used to) peacefully co-exist with our neighbours. On a more personal level, however, that was and still isn't true. I know people who have both never left the country and some who have never known anyone outside of their own ethnicity, race, religion, ect. As such, there tends to be a lot of stereotyping and even bigotry of these 'other' types of people.

Though I don't blame the X-Men for needing a safer place with which to establish their position, I don't think that just opting to only focus on their own space long term is going to be helpful. Sure, mutants are free to travel between countries, but will they truly ever be welcome there, even just for a day visit? Things are still so bad that mutants are being ousted from their homes that they originally wanted to stay in (Excalibur) or just were unable to leave (New Mutants) so unless those attitudes continue to be challenged...well, it's not going to solve a single thing. If anything, it's just going to lead to more stagnation and just as much discrimination.

Additionally, it raises more worrying questions: What happens if a human is born on Krakoa? Are they ever truly accepted or will parents be 'ashamed' of their sapien child? Will they feel the need to abandon said child as they may have been abandoned by their own families? What of mutants who don't want to live on Krakoa but feel they have to, who feel 'trapped' in a way? Mutants who have close ties to their families and don't want to be separated to such an extent, ect?

I think it's both limiting and short-sighted not to address these issues so...for now, I'm going to vote 'wrong.'

[Glio]

Do we need a variation of the same thread every day?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Do we need a variation of the same thread every day?

You're very welcome to start your own threads about things?

[jwatson]

Do we need a variation of the same thread every day?

I just wish some of these posters cared when the shoes were on the other foot. When mutants had a boot on their neck the word was mum but now all these people with 100 posts or 50 are burning the midnight oil with different variations of the same thing because omg the oppressed are fighting back and not even really actively fighting anything. For all the rhetoric I must be missing where krakoa has actually attacked people other than in self defense to save mutant children being tortured. It's like I'm as unbothered by the new status quo as Gale was about r kelly and some of these posters we're about where the human compassion is.

[The Quiet Councilor]

I just wish some of these posters cared when the shoes were on the other foot. When mutants had a boot on their neck the word was mum but now all these people with 100 posts or 50 are burning the midnight oil with different variations of the same thing because omg the oppressed are fighting back and not even really actively fighting anything. For all the rhetoric I must be missing where krakoa has actually attacked people other than in self defense to save mutant children being tortured. It's like I'm as unbothered by the new status quo as Gale was about r kelly and some of these posters we're about where the human compassion is.

Yeah, it’s interesting how upsetting it is to people when the oppressed minority decides not to sit there and take it anymore and how words like “unheroic” get thrown around.

[Tycon]

They’re right.

[Soulsword323]

In X-Force, Wolverine, Kid Omega, and Domino attempted to save the human scientists that were working with Krakoa. How isn't that heroic? And how has anything the X-Men done negatively impacted the rest of the world?

[Kisinith]

All right, so we have dealing with the whole Dawn of X for a while now. The X-Men have decided to no longer take crap from anyone, make their own country on Krakoa, and basically put themselves first at the expense of their relationship with everyone else. On the one hand, this makes sense; they have been on the brink of extermination for so long at the hands of humanity and others that they need to take care of themselves. Also, who wouldn't get fed up?

However, they are supposed to be heroes, and they aren't acting very heroic at the moment.

What are they doing thats not very heroic?
Marauders? Where they are very clearly rescuing innocent people.
X-Force? Where they are dealing with human terrorists striking at Xavier, Krakoa and the human business that works alongside the mutants? (Which is also a strike at Krakoa)
X-Men? Where they rescued mutant children kidnapped and being experimented upon by human supremacist scientists? Where they were attacked by geriatric super scientists stealing Krakoan flowers? Where they prevented yet another human assassination attempt on Krakoa's highest leadership.
Excalibur? Where they tried to assess a problem in otherworld, help Rogue, connect with the UK government and protect British citizens from monster attacks?
Fallen Angels? Where they are dealing with a monster that has weaponized and killed kids?

Also, they seemed to have given up on the dream of coexistence/

Source? coexistence at the national level is still coexistence. They also have a network of gates that allow near instant access all over the world, there are various businesses set up to work with Krakoa and distribute Krakoan drugs, the hellfire trading company both overt (White) and covert (Black) sections, international embassies, engagement in the UN and various international forums like Davos, it looks to me like you see far more engagement than you ever saw while they were holed up in a mansion in upstate New York. The Krakoan drugs themselves are explicitly a way of buying human acceptance for mutants.

Are they right to behave this way, or are they wrong?

They are right

[MYCMTSC]

They're right, and even if things start to go left it makes the X-Men so much more interesting.

I am here for Xavier not trying to be the model minority anymore.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

What are they doing thats not very heroic? Source? coexistence at the national level is still coexistence. They also have a network of gates that allow near instant access all over the world, there are various businesses set up to work with Krakoa and distribute Krakoan drugs, the hellfire trading company both overt (White) and covert (Black) sections, international embassies, engagement in the UN and various international forums like Davos, it looks to me like you see far more engagement than you ever saw while they were holed up in a mansion in upstate New York. The Krakoan drugs themselves are explicitly a way of buying human acceptance for mutants.

Political coexistence is still a far, far different matter than actually gaining acceptance and the ability to coexist side-by-side. Yes, you get all the benefits a country does; trade, political relations, ect, ect but those on their own don't guarantee that mutants will be seen any better where it's needed most, i.e, within the people.

Small town mentalities will always still exist, yes, but they'll be far more pronounced now; it's like how real life bigots argue about how Jewish people 'control the media' and such. That but for mutants; "They're buying our media, it's propaganda! Don't believe them!" and they paint an entire people under a horrible brush without ever truly knowing people.

And no, I'm not saying people should get on and never dislike each other; but hating, say, Kelly for being a mutant is so, so different for not getting on with her because, say she talks too much or wears too strong a perfume.

Now I'm not saying that Krakoa shouldn't exist or engage politically; but that shouldn't be considered the end result, or seen as 'the best case scenario.' That doesn't actually solve anything; mutants are still going to be born in the human world and, if there's no effort to improve things within communities and such, they'll still be killed, attacked, discriminated against and hated. Likewise, humans will be regarded in the same manner on Krakoa; the people will never truly meet or interact. There'll be animosities and negativities perpetuated on both sides.

And then that leads to the question; say if those negativities are perpetuated about Krakoa--what does that mean for humans born there?


So I don't agree that this is ideal coexistence. Yes, the ball is in the humans court, but there still needs to be a direct effort from the mutants to say "Hey, we don't want to give up our stake to our roots or where we were born. You don't scare us," and so, there's still an effort to fight for that aspect too.

TL;DR: Political coexistence is far too different from communal coexistence to be properly equated.

[jwatson]

Eh black america has been trying to coexist for a long time and despite all that they still act like 12% of the population is creating all the crimes. They still try to silence us with All lives matter if we dare say Black lives matter they act like they don't know what it means. Mutant lives Matter and at the end of the day there is no ideal coexistence. It won't happen unless the bigots want it to happen and there is not a damn thing the mutants can do to change that and unfortunately thats just the fact of the matter. There will ALWAYS be those that hate the OTHER. How long has britian been around? And even there there is still racial tensions that seem to quiet and then get worse depending who is in power and the people who only speak up when they want to say ALL lives matters and do little to nothing else are the ones who embolden those bigots and make it worse. It's not small town mentality, it's human selfishness and entitlement and nothing, nothing will change the hearts of those who don't have one so the only thing one can do is find a safe place and reach out to those who do and change the hearts of those they can and wait for those who never will to disappear. And hopefully it can be done without letting hate into your own heart.

[PrezValentine]

It's that thread again.

Fantastic.

Yes, they are right. You can go up and down on self-righteousness, use whatever cliché quote you found on the internet, or use anecdotal references to justify your problems with Krakoa, what the X-Men are doing isn't any more villainous than what every group of superheroes did in their history

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

the only thing one can do is find a safe place and reach out to those who do and change the hearts of those they can and wait for those who never will to disappear. And hopefully it can be done without letting hate into your own heart.

I don't necessarily agree this is the only approach, but I do agree, especially with the latter part of it. That's why I wish Apocalypse would receive a proverbial smack around the mouth for some of the stuff he's been spouting as of late.

[From The Shadows]

Yeah, it’s interesting how upsetting it is to people when the oppressed minority decides not to sit there and take it anymore and how words like “unheroic” get thrown around.

Things have changed a lot since the earlier days of internet comic forums and the last I left them (and Marvel Comics - you ruined CC's awesome XSE plans!) around 2004 people did not take the minority metaphor so to heart. I returned for 'Second Coming.' Heck, I remember the last I left it when it was still up for debate whether the X-Men were minorities or or just outcasts in general and it was still open to interpretation. People were also still debating the MLK/Malcom X analogy. Just remember when you say" Cyclops or Magneto Was Right" (not actually you the poster I'm posting to) That's what white supremacists said about Hitler and used the exact words "Hitler Was Right." Also, are we not humans ourselves? The X-Men are also pointing fingers at the jews, blacks and gays in these mobs or crowds on Washington. This is discrimination against powers as ridiculous as it sounds. Amazingly enough the X-Men got a bunch of humans (us) to sympathize with them. Lets add moviegoers as well.

Eh black america has been trying to coexist for a long time and despite all that they still act like 12% of the population is creating all the crimes. They still try to silence us with All lives matter if we dare say Black lives matter they act like they don't know what it means. Mutant lives Matter and at the end of the day there is no ideal coexistence. It won't happen unless the bigots want it to happen and there is not a damn thing the mutants can do to change that and unfortunately thats just the fact of the matter. There will ALWAYS be those that hate the OTHER. How long has britian been around? And even there there is still racial tensions that seem to quiet and then get worse depending who is in power and the people who only speak up when they want to say ALL lives matters and do little to nothing else are the ones who embolden those bigots and make it worse. It's not small town mentality, it's human selfishness and entitlement and nothing, nothing will change the hearts of those who don't have one so the only thing one can do is find a safe place and reach out to those who do and change the hearts of those they can and wait for those who never will to disappear. And hopefully it can be done without letting hate into your own heart.

Magneto doesnt want to hear about your black man problems since you are still just a human, ones that Marvel artists themselves insert into the mob scenes and they don't mind their extinction. Do they even think of other minorities?