The recent behavior of the X-Men: right or wrong?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Well it has to start with the mutants. They have to continue to stand up and say hey, we matter and deserve to be treated equally. Having the leaders of Krakoa invited to the economic forum was a big step forward. Those humans were willing to talk (minus the American one who wanted to kill them). It may be slow but that's progress and that's what I enjoy about it.

But, see, that's what I'm struggling to understand: they have their own nation now. And since all mutants are being seen as flocking to Krakoa, won't politicians just be able to justify that as...not needing to do anything outside of the political and economic relations? What's their real incentive if the institutions truly are pitted against mutants? Why should the humans care now? Where is that empathy being generated from?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yes but I'm sure the hope is that if a mutant is asking for refuge and safety, maybe their home country can eventually offer that to them. It would make them wanting to potentially stay an easier option.

But why? They're Krakoan now, by birth, and their country is not considered a hostile or harmful environment. Legally speaking, that's where it'll be argued they should go. Wouldn't them wanting to stay just be an unnecessary complication?

[Ferro]

some comments remind me of the difrence of treatment i suddenly got when i started being more open proud of my non-normal traits.
it was fine for some people in my life to be gay, but once i started to take a stand, to say enough and creating barriers to stop people from being abusive to me, once i stoped trying to apease to people that already hated me for me in the first place, i was suddenly ungratefulll and a unecessarly agressive, an nuissance, because I wasnt putting the effort many thought was my responsibility to keep others comfortable at the cost of my self worth and happiness.

its interesting to see it mirrored the moment the x-men take a stand and arent villainfied for it, and are even sucessfull at it, a lot of people get uncomfortable, but its doing its job at being a minority alegory :P

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

some comments remind me of the difrence of treatment i suddenly got when i started being more open proud of my non-normal traits.
it was fine for some people in my life to be gay, but once i started to take a stand, to say enough and creating barriers to stop people from being abusive to me, once i stoped trying to apease to people that already hated me for me in the first place, i was suddenly ungratefulll and a unecessarly agressive, an nuissance, because I wasnt putting the effort many thought was my responsibility to keep others comfortable at the cost of my self worth and happiness.

its interesting to see it mirrored the moment the x-men take a stand and arent villainfied for it, and are even sucessfull at it, a lot of people get uncomfortable, but its doing its job at being a minority alegory :P

I get that a lot when I stop masking my autistic traits. Absolutely maddening; especially when they start swooping in with "Oh but you don't understand," when, when I was masking it was "Well you're not as bad as that." Fuckin' contradictions left right and centre, lemme tell ya.

I do struggle when people seem aggressive or yelling at me though, especially when I'm just trying to understand something. I question, but I can see how that comes across as aggressive 'grilling', I think? I try not to be anyway.

That's why I always find myself on Laura and Logan's side of things: I think they're autistic, actually. Questioning, poking holes in logic because they can't just be 'told.'

[The Quiet Councilor]

some comments remind me of the difrence of treatment i suddenly got when i started being more open proud of my non-normal traits.
it was fine for some people in my life to be gay, but once i started to take a stand, to say enough and creating barriers to stop people from being abusive to me, once i stoped trying to apease to people that already hated me for me in the first place, i was suddenly ungratefulll and a unecessarly agressive, an nuissance, because I wasnt putting the effort many thought was my responsibility to keep others comfortable at the cost of my self worth and happiness.

its interesting to see it mirrored the moment the x-men take a stand and arent villainfied for it, and are even sucessfull at it, a lot of people get uncomfortable, but its doing its job at being a minority alegory :P

Agreed. The sense of relief and joy at finally being safe and recognized is so real. That party in HoX 6 couldn’t feel more like the gay bars the night we won marriage equality in the US.

[Ferro]

its just the idea "oh dont swop downt to their level, rise above, peace and love" are very pretty ideals that do nothing agaist the way mutants are treated in the MU, all it does is keep the status quo of mutants in pain and as underdogs.
Peace requires 2 participants, now that krakoa has leveled the field, actual discussions of peace and brotherhood can be done from a place of equality, not as a failed attempt at helping mutants survive.

And krakoa as a nation in the history of the mu has almost no blood in its creation, no land taken, no people enslaved or erased, if atlantis/latveria/attilan can exist, so should krakoa who in its young history hasnt done anything but take a proper and stern stance and getting their place in the united nations in a non bloody way, its not moral on its practises, but it is better than most human nations in the MU

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

its just the idea "oh dont swop downt to their level, rise above, peace and love" are very pretty ideals that do nothing agaist the way mutants are treated in the MU, all it does is keep the status quo of mutants in pain and as underdogs.
Peace requires 2 participants, now that krakoa has leveled the field, actual discussions of peace and brotherhood can be done from a place of equality, not as a failed attempt at helping mutants survive.

And krakoa as a nation in the history of the mu has almost no blood in its creation, no land taken, no people enslaved or erased, if atlantis/latveria/attilan can exist, so should krakoa who in its young history hasnt done anything but take a proper and stern stance and getting their place in the united nations in a non bloody way, its not moral on its practises, but it is better than most human nations in the MU

But surely that requires a sense of proportionate retribution? For example; say we've got red and purple people. Politically, there's a bloody history between these two people's, political tensions high: the reds have historically oppressed the purple people and said purple people are demanding rights. Now, say we look under the hood of the politics to the day to day life: A purple person is working in a cafe and a red person has ordered a coffee. These two have never met before, they have no history. Does that grand the purple person the right to, say, deride, insult or attack the red person just because of that, or are they allowed a degree of compassion?

And: if Purple people were to suddenly all move to their own island, much like mutants: No blood, no colonisation, all pure and easy. What incentives do red people have to keep negotiating peace? Haven't they won? They've gotten 'undesirables' out of their land, after all, what happens next to benefit them is just gravy?

[JB]

But, see, that's what I'm struggling to understand: they have their own nation now. And since all mutants are being seen as flocking to Krakoa, won't politicians just be able to justify that as...not needing to do anything outside of the political and economic relations? What's their real incentive if the institutions truly are pitted against mutants? Why should the humans care now? Where is that empathy being generated from?

They should care because mutants are still being rounded up, experimented on, and killed. Unfortunately that has not ended and I don't currently see any human government trying to help with the situation.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

They should care because mutants are still being rounded up, experimented on, and killed. Unfortunately that has not ended and I don't currently see any human government trying to help with the situation.

Exactly the view I hold, but because it hasn't stopped, how does Krakoa's conception give them incentive to? Do the efforts of X-Men going in and destroying things not to just seem a bit of an inconvenience? Where's the actual compassion needed to turn around and say 'no' coming from? Because theoretically, mutants could continue to go in and stop these efforts and destroy these facilities a thousand times over. It could just keep going. If they don't care now, what's going to change their minds?

[JB]

I do struggle when people seem aggressive or yelling at me though, especially when I'm just trying to understand something. I question, but I can see how that comes across as aggressive 'grilling', I think? I try not to be anyway.

That's why I always find myself on Laura and Logan's side of things: I think they're autistic, actually. Questioning, poking holes in logic because they can't just be 'told.'

Sometimes it takes time for understanding to come and often we have to be OK with not understanding for the time being. I always suggest that we wait and see how things unfold because a lot of the scenarios we discuss haven't been shown yet. I think X-Men/FF is going to be very, very interesting.

[JB]

Exactly the view I hold, but because it hasn't stopped, how does Krakoa's conception give them incentive to? Do the efforts of X-Men going in and destroying things not to just seem a bit of an inconvenience? Where's the actual compassion needed to turn around and say 'no' coming from? Because theoretically, mutants could continue to go in and stop these efforts and destroy these facilities a thousand times over. It could just keep going. If they don't care now, what's going to change their minds?

Good questions but questions I don't have the answers to.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Sometimes it takes time for understanding to come and often we have to be OK with not understanding for the time being. I always suggest that we wait and see how things unfold because a lot of the scenarios we discuss haven't been shown yet. I think X-Men/FF is going to be very, very interesting.

So you'd say you're the more hopeful kind of reader? You trust Hickman has more understanding of the characters than what has been presented and, subsequently, interpreted?

[JB]

So you'd say you're the more hopeful kind of reader? You trust Hickman has more understanding of the characters than what has been presented and, subsequently, interpreted?

Yes, yes, and yes. I like how most of the characters sound so far. I find myself happy and smiling after reading most of the issues since HOX #1.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yes, yes, and yes. I like how most of the characters sound so far. I find myself happy and smiling after reading most of the issues since HOX #1.

Really? You didn't feel any dread at all? Or frustration? The drastic changes didn't bother you, nor Moira's...questionable...position?

[JB]

Really? You didn't feel any dread at all? Or frustration? The drastic changes didn't bother you, nor Moira's...questionable...position?

Oh sure, I think Moira has a lot up her sleeve but I find it intriguing. For me, I feel the changes are extremely refreshing. We're finally somewhere new that I find to be very interesting.