So how much blame do you place on American voters for America's government

[lam]

I definitely blame the quarter of voters voting for the GOP, and the ones who don't lift a finger to stop them.

Hi there, I didn't mean to enter the thread and now I don't know how to leave without posting a message. Is there a way to do this?

Pain and pleasure really are two sides of the same coin.

[Michael Watkins]

The reason I ask is because elsewhere there was a argument about this. A Iranian was basically begging Americans to go out and vote for better politicians etc. Because there's a possibility of thousands of people dying on both sides. While American was saying that it's not our fault, our government basically does a lot of things against the public wishes. Someone even brought up that it was hard for us to protest because of work.

But how much of it is our fault as citizens and voters?

we are at least 60% to blame. but at least we didn't elect Boris Johnson.

It is 100% our fault, as much as we would like to believe that there is some sinister cabal controlling everything and we are just the innocent victims.

we aren't innocent. and there is a cabal. several cabal. they present us with the options. and then we vote. some people vote stupidly. some don't vote at all. some vote out of spite. but, while we're eating, we didn't set the table.

[DrNewGod]

...we aren't innocent. and there is a cabal. several cabal. they present us with the options. and then we vote. some people vote stupidly. some don't vote at all. some vote out of spite. but, while we're eating, we didn't set the table.

Agreed, there is a cabal. That said, in the US, part of the problem is that government is a great deal more complex than what The Framers put in place. Keeping up with everything going on, and tracing it back to your Congressional Representative and/or Senator's vote is more than most have time and capacity to manage. Still, if one views the situation as undesirable, and the one keeps voting for the same people...what was that definition of insanity again?

[jetengine]

we are at least 60% to blame. but at least we didn't elect Boris Johnson.



we aren't innocent. and there is a cabal. several cabal. they present us with the options. and then we vote. some people vote stupidly. some don't vote at all. some vote out of spite. but, while we're eating, we didn't set the table.

Bojo was thanks to Brexit and shitty media barons

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Not really, the current system incentivizes people to be disengaged. The political spectrum is more than just standard Democrats and Republicans. So you have people who are forced to vote for people they have very little in common with (on both sides) because they have a fringe element in one party or the other

Ranked choice voting would be the answer here. Then split up the parties and make it impossible for any one to ever hold a 50% majority

[Michael Watkins]

Agreed, there is a cabal. That said, in the US, part of the problem is that government is a great deal more complex than what The Framers put in place. Keeping up with everything going on, and tracing it back to your Congressional Representative and/or Senator's vote is more than most have time and capacity to manage. Still, if one views the situation as undesirable, and the one keeps voting for the same people...what was that definition of insanity again?

all good points!

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

The world thinks Americans have so much power bc our government pretends to be a functional democracy which puts the blame on its citizens for what the government does. I think we, as Americans, realize how little power the people have in other countries but many of us don’t realize how little power we have in our own bc they make it seem like the power is “to the people.” It’s not and it never will be. It’s more like, “power to the capitalists.”

Not really, the current system incentivizes people to be disengaged.

That's a REALLY good point, and I think that's by design. Which ties into the thing about not being able to protest.

[Jim Kelly]

I like how when one athlete competing for the USA wins the gold at the Olympics, Americans are quick to shout "WE WON!" like every one of them can take credit for that athlete's achievement. But when the USA continues to do things that will destroy our planet, Americans are quick to say, "Hey, don't look at me. I'm not responsible, it's that other guy. My hands are clean."

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

To me honestly I had to think about that question. Because I think there's a lot of nuances involved. I think both sides have a point, but I always thought the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's true the public needs to take more personal responsibility for who they vote for, but I always thought that the government foreign policy is gonna foreign policy. Sure we could add pressure, but outside of voting how can you do that? Serious question

[DanMad1977]

To me honestly I had to think about that question. Because I think there's a lot of nuances involved. I think both sides have a point, but I always thought the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's true the public needs to take more personal responsibility for who they vote for, but I always thought that the government foreign policy is gonna foreign policy. Sure we could add pressure, but outside of voting how can you do that? Serious question

Simlpe answer: we can't

I thought about it long and hard, and that's the only conclusion, besides some comic book/superhero ideas that are highly unrealistic its only voting that I can come up with

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I've said this before in the controversial opinion thread, but I do blame voters. But I think black voters especially likes to protect mediocre, ineffectual, wishy-washy politicians just cause they're black or familiar. But at the same time always complaining about the system this, the establishment that, white supremacy this, patriarchy that. Ugh... But still, there's just only so much you can do as a voter. But there definitely needs to be a solution.

[Scott Taylor]

Like the Roman Empire got to be, we are complacent in the midst of a Pax Americana. There are no Huns at the door, no mass plagues happening, no mass lack of services, etc. Sure we have school shootings, thefts, murders, fires, hurricanes, etc. But overall the U.S. is a peaceful place and people are pretty well off here compared to what is out there in other nations. Makes us apathetic and complacent.

You know the best way to tell? Both political sides use fear tactics to try and gain support. Because fear of losing that Pax Americana is the only thing that could possibly make people stand up and listen.

So, I guess to answer the poll question - most? We the voting public still have the power to change things, if we cared enough. But 40 percent turnout to vote, people practically never engage in local or regional politics where things that affect them mostly happen, and as long as certain basic needs are met, folks are glad to cruise along and complain now and then.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Simlpe answer: we can't

I thought about it long and hard, and that's the only conclusion, besides some comic book/superhero ideas that are highly unrealistic its only voting that I can come up with

And that's the deal, the only feasible way to apply pressure is voting. And nothing else really.

[numberthirty]

And that's the deal, the only feasible way to apply pressure is voting. And nothing else really.

As long as "Coke" and "Pepsi" know that your only realistic choices are "Coke"/"Pepsi", I have my doubts about just how much pressure can be applied.

[Kirby101]

As long as "Coke" and "Pepsi" know that your only realistic choices are "Coke"/"Pepsi", I have my doubts about just how much pressure can be applied.

Both sides blah, blah, blah. If you don't see a difference these days, you are willfully blind.