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  1. #1

    Default Aquaman vs. Thor

    Movie versions.

    Thor has his Ragnarok Arena fight gear. No super saiyan lightning mode - pretty sure he'd easily win with it.

    Aquaman has standard gear.
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  2. #2
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    So Mjolnir-less, Ragnarok Thor minus help ('ish?) from Odin? Mmm, not so sure that Thor can replicate a shockwave blow (like Ragnarok), that base Aquaman did underwater no less.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cronus View Post
    So Mjolnir-less, Ragnarok Thor minus help ('ish?) from Odin? Mmm, not so sure that Thor can replicate a shockwave blow (like Ragnarok), that base Aquaman did underwater no less.
    When did he produce a notable underwater shockwave?
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  4. #4
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    When did he produce a notable underwater shockwave?
    When he connected spears with Ocean Master during the Ring of Fire fight. Caused a lot of people to stagger in the audience/stands.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    When he connected spears with Ocean Master during the Ring of Fire fight. Caused a lot of people to stagger in the audience/stands.
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  6. #6
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Thing is, shockwaves are MUCH MUCH easier to create underwater, and propagate MUCH MUCH more violently.

    This is because water is a liquid, much more dense than air, and can't be compressed. So pushing one molecule pushes the next.

    "Cool" things related to this:

    1. Your ears and brain are capable of determining sound direction when you are on land. But underwater, sound moves MUCH faster and you can't tell direction at all: our brains are not capable of doing the required math quickly enough.

    2. The stupid thing you see in movies of people shooting guns underwater is a really, really bad idea: water, being uncompressible, would mean that just as much force applies to your hand, so shooting a gun underwater would break lots of bones, likely doing vastly more damage to you than any possible target.

    Basically, a shockwave that does things at a distance underwater would require vastly less force than one in air.

    As related to this rumble, Thor is quicker (numerous swats of energy blasts and such), a much better fighter (when he doesn't try to grapple the Hulk), much more experienced, and more durable. The strength thing is arguable I guess, but Thor's high end is vastly better and his low end isn't worse, so it's hard, for me, to argue that AM is stronger. If all you want to do is go by high end feats, Thor holding Hulk's smash is better than any fight strength AC pulls off, and Thor restarting the rings is VASTLY better then helping a sub to the surface.

    I'd give it to Thor, therefore.
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  7. #7

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    So...is the fight in the water?

  8. #8
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    Thor just seems stronger than Aquaman. Even pre power up version. Aquamans best bet is to use the Trident to take out Thors eyes or something like that.

  9. #9

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    Even de-scaling the underwater shockwave, it's still a decent show of force from a medium that barely cares about physics lol :P

    Also, the fight is on dry land. Arena.

    Thor doesn't appear to be any faster for my money. Arthur also swats energy blasts away with the thin handle of a trident during his final battle. He then does that super speed spin thing with said trident against Orm. Skill wise he feels pretty comparable as well. He has been honed from birth to be a warrior from his mentor and has multiple fight scenes where flipping around and advanced combat seem to be par for the course. Hes not just a brick is my point.

    Pretty sure the whole neutron star sequence is still held as SMvFL by the mods. Not counting that feat, they are pretty close in strength imo. Slowly losing strength contests to the Hulk is where I would probably place Arthur as well. I actually think Arthur makes short work of the Hulk if he were in this Rumble instead of Thor.

    I'm not saying that he wins with 100% confidence, just that Thor doesn't have any obvious advantages without Mjolnir or his unlocked power. They are both in for a serious fight.
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  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Even de-scaling the underwater shockwave, it's still a decent show of force from a medium that barely cares about physics lol :P

    Also, the fight is on dry land. Arena.

    Thor doesn't appear to be any faster for my money. Arthur also swats energy blasts away with the thin handle of a trident during his final battle. He then does that super speed spin thing with said trident against Orm. Skill wise he feels pretty comparable as well. He has been honed from birth to be a warrior from his mentor and has multiple fight scenes where flipping around and advanced combat seem to be par for the course. Hes not just a brick is my point.

    Pretty sure the whole neutron star sequence is still held as SMvFL by the mods. Not counting that feat, they are pretty close in strength imo. Slowly losing strength contests to the Hulk is where I would probably place Arthur as well. I actually think Arthur makes short work of the Hulk if he were in this Rumble instead of Thor.

    I'm not saying that he wins with 100% confidence, just that Thor doesn't have any obvious advantages without Mjolnir or his unlocked power. They are both in for a serious fight.
    Agreed with this.

    If it was just hand to hand, I would slightly favor Thor as I think he just a bit stronger and tougher. But with the Trident I think it's 50/50 as Aquaman has the reach advantage and a weapon that can hurt Thor.

  11. #11
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Even de-scaling the underwater shockwave, it's still a decent show of force from a medium that barely cares about physics lol :P

    Also, the fight is on dry land. Arena.

    Thor doesn't appear to be any faster for my money. Arthur also swats energy blasts away with the thin handle of a trident during his final battle. He then does that super speed spin thing with said trident against Orm. Skill wise he feels pretty comparable as well. He has been honed from birth to be a warrior from his mentor and has multiple fight scenes where flipping around and advanced combat seem to be par for the course. Hes not just a brick is my point.

    Pretty sure the whole neutron star sequence is still held as SMvFL by the mods. Not counting that feat, they are pretty close in strength imo. Slowly losing strength contests to the Hulk is where I would probably place Arthur as well. I actually think Arthur makes short work of the Hulk if he were in this Rumble instead of Thor.

    I'm not saying that he wins with 100% confidence, just that Thor doesn't have any obvious advantages without Mjolnir or his unlocked power. They are both in for a serious fight.
    As far as the strength thing: I was really careful to NOT express that any particular feat counts or not, just that, of the feats they have, Thor's are better.

    You can SMvFL Thor's ring-feat (and the rest of Nivedellir) but you can do the same for AM's sub feat, and it's VASTLY less impressive in any case.

    Also, where does AM have ANYTHING on the level of "stopping an angry 'Hulk Smash'"?

    As far as skill: AM "has been groomed to be a warrior his whole life." First off, no, he really wasn't. Second, yeah, all 30 years of it, and he's never actually engaged in combat with anything approaching an equal before the films we see. In the first, he's handled relatively easily by Stepenwolf, and absolutely annihilated by Kal El. In the second, he fights one fight against an equal-ish being and kinda sorta does OK.

    Thor has been in frequent combat against equals and superiors for 1500 years. And his good combat feats (fighting Hulk specifically, Loki when he gets serious, Surtur, Thanos in a losing but still not bad showing while fat, etc.) are just worlds above what we see from AM, and that doesn't even count things like even Banner, in Hulkbuster armor, when he, the Avengers and Wakanda are starting to get curbstomped by the army of Thanos' minions, saying "you're dead you doofuses" as soon as Thor shows up.

    Durability: AM gets stabbed by a normal human with a knife. There is literally no way that Thor would have been stabbed in that situation, first, and second, it would have bounced off of his skin. Outside of that, AM has no feats at all of waking up unbruised from a significant ground and pound while slave-disked into non-resistance from Hulk, Getting hammer-smacked into a wall 100m away by Hulk, the beating from Kurse, or anything like that. Thor does.

    Anyway, this isn't to say that AM is worthless, or that Thor won't have to work for it, but Thor has edges, based on what we see on-screen, from battles against peers or superiors, in literally every relevant category. Enough to make this a large majority for him, in my eyes.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Durability: AM gets stabbed by a normal human with a knife. There is literally no way that Thor would have been stabbed in that situation, first, and second, it would have bounced off of his skin.
    You obviously forgot about the Aquaman movie or haven't watched it. The only reason he got hurt by the knife was because it was Atlantean steel. When someone tried to stab him with a sword it didn't even break his skin. It's a specific plot point in the movie. Similar to how Thor gets hurt by an Asgardian knife.

    In terms of durability, he shrugged off a rocket launcher to the chest and got hit by Black Manta by his Atlantean death ray and it threw him 100 feet back and smashed into a rock wall and was fine from it besides a slightly burned arm. In Justice League, when he fought Steppenwolf underwater, he was slammed into a wall hard enough for the wall to break apart. Aquaman is much more durable than you giving him credit for.

  13. #13

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    Basically what Slade1 said.

    He also took 2 direct hits from the sharp end of Steppenwolf's axe without bleeding or bruising and SW is stronger then Diana.

    Speaking of visible damage, Hulk straight up knocked Thor out. Made him bleed in the helicarrier fight. Also, the state of "non resistance" you are claiming had worn off to the point where he did in fact raise his arms above his head at the last second. Hulk KO'd him anyways. He was on his way to KOing him with the ground and pound as well until super asgardian power up kicked in. Whenever Thor unlocks new powers he seems to heal up a bit.

    But I guess the point you are making is that despite being KO'd by Hulk (and bled in the earlier fight) that its somehow STILL a really good durability feat? Because he wakes up unbruised? The lack of bruises somehow override the fact that he was cleanly separated from consciousness?

    Again- Thor seems to heal post power ups. Plus real world fighters in MMA etc are quite frequently knocked out clean without any noticeable bruises afterwards.

    Moving on, you say Arthur hasn't been trained to be a warrior from birth. Why? He has multiple flash back training sequences showing Vulko train him in his youth. He then later literally states with words that he has trained his whole life to be a weapon - a blunt instrument. You ignoring this is odd. The 1500 year thing vs the 30 year thing also doesn't matter much. Feats do. Steppenwolf and Diana are both thousands of years old. Steppenwolf especially is old as dirt and had fought gods and conquered planets. Aquaman's skill is on a level where he can mix it up as these two fight it out and he doesn't get left in the dust. By feats and presentation, he is a proper skilled warrior just fine.

    Lastly, the Ring/Star feat is pretty clearly SMvFL because Thor had THREE solo films and two joint films to establish his consistent high end. Hes now had another joint film following. In none of these other showings does he even remotely approach the levels the Ring/Star scene indicates. Accepting them breaks the MCU power curve and elevates Hulk etc by comparative association.

    Aquaman has had ONE solo film. And in the first 10 minutes he shoves a submarine around. In his only other showing with Justice League, he is shown to be strong enough to allow Diana to suddenly swiftly defeat Steppenwolf in a tug of war match she was conclusively losing solo. Calling "SMvFL!" despite this context is just flat out wrong. He's had 1/5 of Thors movies and probably even less in terms of screen time.

    Lastly (Slade1 briefly touched on this) his tanking of Black Mantas death ray is roughly as good as anything Thor or Hulk have tanked given the relative damage done. In its test firing, it one shot a large rock formation - probably as big as a building. Hes also been struck by Superman and the sharp end of Steppenwolf's axe. Hes plenty durable.

    Again, I am NOT saying he has a clear advantage in any one area. Just arguing that he doesn't appear to have any glaring DIS-advantage as you seem to be saying.
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  14. #14
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    OOOOOOKKKKKKKKK there:

    1. Thor in Avengers is not KO'd by Hulk. He does take a beating for a bit after he stupidly tries to grapple with a being MUCH more massive then he is and at least equally strong. And he's just fine and dandy after. He gets a drop of blood at the nose and other than that, nothing.

    2. Thor in AoU takes an extended pounding from fully evolved, roided-up, Vibranium-bodied Ultron just to waste time.

    3. Thor, in Dark World, takes an extended pounding from Kurse and is absolutely fine moments after it ends.

    4. Ragnarok: man you are underselling his feats there. He gets smacked by a hammer shot from the Hulk into the wall, on a line, extremely far away, and it does all of jack squat to him. He lets himself get puny godded extensively and it does all of... nothing to him. He takes a ground and pound from Hulk for quite a while and it... lets him daydream about his dad until he transforms. And he was obviously completely defenseless post the stun-stick treatment. Him raising a hand before getting pounded again means nothing as far as actually defending himself.

    Again: I am not saying that AM is a speedbump to the guy. I'm just saying that, based on what we see, Thor is (let's be as gentle as possible) as quick or quicker, as strong or stronger, somewhat though clearly more durable and somewhat though clearly more skilled. Not necessarily "insanely more durable" or anything, just... he has the edge.

    And it's completely consistent with his presentation that he be so.

    AM? The dude who basically did some combat training summer camps? I get that he's feeling like an angsty teenager who doesn't want to do what he's told (this is a lot of Thor's characterization as well...), but he literally spent a few months of his life, maybe a few years tops, training, and again, never fights and certainly never wins against anyone around his level. You really want to place his skill on Diana's level? I've got a lower opinion of her movie feats and such than a lot of people, but she's STUPIDLY better then he is. Everything about his presentation would place him lower on the totem then Thor, and his feats are clearly, visibly less impressive.

    Not like comparing the Human Torch to Galactus or anything, but Thor, to me, has a pretty solid edge, and it's only even a fight because we're taking away half of what Thor brings to the table.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Not like comparing the Human Torch to Galactus or anything, but Thor, to me, has a pretty solid edge, and it's only even a fight because we're taking away half of what Thor brings to the table.
    Lot to unpack here (and I will when I get time) but just to comment on this last bit:

    Yes. Thor is /heavily/ nerfed for this fight. I think he destroys Aquaman 10/10 in any more standard Rumble. Me thinking he's got an even chance against the second weakest version of Thor we've seen does not mean I am making slow pushes towards saying he is a legit threat for a more prepared version of the guy.
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