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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenghisDon View Post
    The super X hybrid takes it...although if it is via the mimic or rogue, it becomes maybe & probably. Mimic has specific hulk issues. Rogues power stealing would be extra on top, although the claws would downgrade from adamantium to osmium steel

    Aside from speed, skill & power + edged attacks, this combo is dangerous even to hulk via storm (& to a degree, cyclops) with speed & skill & playing keep away/ranged assault. Hulk is pretty screwed, his reward if he manages to make it melee is still probable defeat. OTOH, comic books are inherently biased against energy projectors, so the best way is probably sneaking up in a pea soup fog & severely injuring or taking out Hulk before he even knows what is going on, which is eminently possible.

    I do not stack reflexes or speed the way someone else is, either, but it's not needed. I would have amplified strength using baseline beast over Rasputin before steel form, but vs the Hulk (specifically), this is not that much of a difference, I do not think.



    Well, I already picked composite X-man, but to play devil's advocate a moment; Hulk has speed feats likely in excess of any of them, catching & hurling back artillery shells, smacking speedsters, and so on. A speed edge, if one truly has one, is not as effective vs Hulk as people expect. On the thunderclap...well, it is a noted FACT that Wolverine is extra vulnerable to them...and he is part of the combo. Composite X-man here is MORE vulnerable to them than colossus is.
    https://www.incrediblehulk**********...clapfeats.html
    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forum...-hulk-1546029/
    I'm not changing my pick though.
    edit: refreshing on savage hulk...I'm now wavering
    did you read the OP at all?

  2. #17
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    yes...and your point?

    The OP is fine with what I posted, if you aren't, well, sorry.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Welcome to Rumbles!

    I'd recommend reading the stickies here.

    Hulk, here, is NOT faster than Wolverine or Beast. None of them have any business tagging a real speedster, but their presentation is as really fast agile dudes who are capable of basically toying with Hulk by his "general" levels of speed. On Rumbles, we try to throw out anything that doesn't make sense. We don't let Deathstroke tag Wally West here, even though he's done it in comics.
    I think your underselling Hulk a bit there. Spider-Man plays keep away consistently with him sure, but he hits Wolverine all the damn time.

  4. #19
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    He is...as even Spider-man DOESN'T manage to keep away from Hulk that well, unlike vs most others. That's fine though, maybe he's not seen such often. I'm having a hard time swallowing power ring users having a consistent planetary level defense in another thread, as, while I'm not a green lantern fanatic, I'm also not exactly unfamiliar with them in the comics, and they just AREN'T so immune most of the time.

    Deadstroke smacking Wally made me laugh in the comic I saw of it, so I get all his references/points well, though. I suppose we nerds & geeks just aren't going to agree on exactly what is the outlier & what isn't. Deathstroke taking down the JLA was, well, too much. That's a fine case of "you know it when u see it" BS.

  5. #20
    Death of Time Cronus's Avatar
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    Also, when we apply the board principle "high feats consistent with the character's presentation", then Hulk tagging Spider-Man gets tossed out because Spider-Man is a high end bullet timer.
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  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Wolverine's "speed" is a non-factor. Dude isn't even an aim-dodger.

  7. #22
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Wolverine's "speed" is a non-factor. Dude isn't even an aim-dodger.
    Being fair, he's easily an aim-dodger when he wants to be (ie, PIS-off).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Being fair, he's easily an aim-dodger when he wants to be (ie, PIS-off).
    Are we sure it's not more of a CIS issue? :P
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  9. #24
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Are we sure it's not more of a CIS issue? :P
    I've considered that, seriously, in the past. However, there are enough times when Logan actually leads with skill, rather than charging in like a drunken orc (as a now long-gone poster used to say), that I consider it mostly PIS. Gotta showcase that healing factor, don'tcha know.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  10. #25
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I've considered that, seriously, in the past. However, there are enough times when Logan actually leads with skill, rather than charging in like a drunken orc (as a now long-gone poster used to say), that I consider it mostly PIS. Gotta showcase that healing factor, don'tcha know.
    This is a slight tangent, I can imagine there's combination psychological advantage and tactical advantage to him just blocking with his face. Like, against a certain class of opponent, you'd expect a dodge or a block but if he eats it and goes for the direct counter because he can then that's a hell of a play. Would make you much more careful in what you throw out at the very least.
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  11. #26
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    This is a slight tangent, I can imagine there's combination psychological advantage and tactical advantage to him just blocking with his face. Like, against a certain class of opponent, you'd expect a dodge or a block but if he eats it and goes for the direct counter because he can then that's a hell of a play. Would make you much more careful in what you throw out at the very least.
    Also because punching him in the face can hurt. Lots. :)

    Amusingly, I just read an old Iron Fist story where Logan attacks him because...it's complicated, Danny is in Misty's apartment looking for her, Misty is roomies with Jean, Logan is angsting outside (STALKER!!!) and sees Danny, naturally he attacks...anyway, Logan gets hurled out the window. Colossus and Nightcrawler are below, and catch him. Logan blathers about an intruder -

    [Logan] Some dude -- a burglar, I think -- tried to kill me in Jeannie's place!

    Which is a highly interesting perspective on 'I saw a costumed man - not a burglar - in Jean's place, I smashed through the door and attacked him with claws out, and after me trying to gut him a few times, he threw me out the window.'

    Logan demands Peter throw him back up, and Peter complies.

    Nightcrawler then points out something important, which I think is hilarious because it says a lot about how they view Logan at the time, and how close they were given his little 'story' above.

    [Kurt] Colossus, don't! How do we know it's an enemy? Where Wolverine's concerned, it could just as easily be the mailman -- or Jean's parents!

    And yes, those are actual word-for-word quotes. ^_^
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 01-13-2020 at 11:38 AM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers." - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move." - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman." - Pendaran

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    This is a slight tangent, I can imagine there's combination psychological advantage and tactical advantage to him just blocking with his face. Like, against a certain class of opponent, you'd expect a dodge or a block but if he eats it and goes for the direct counter because he can then that's a hell of a play. Would make you much more careful in what you throw out at the very least.
    In historical fencing there is the concept of "doubling" which is boils down to to an exchange where both parties end up injured. Doubling is common with beginners who don't realize they're doing something 'suicidal' and simply go for an opening, which usually results in them wailing on each other.

    People with more experience who don't fight beginners often can often end up getting tagged when they do because they simply don't expect someone to go kamikaze out of nowhere.

    Since Logan is able to soak and deal with damage to the degree he is, he could actually exchange say, a cut for a cut in a duel and be fine,. It might even be the most efficient way to take folks out. Particularly heavily practiced skilled folks who might not be expecting an apparent 'suicidal' attack.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member The Dork Knight's Avatar
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    Oh yeah that's how he beat Shingen

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Maybe a better example would be to compare Wolverine to a man in armor fencing someone who isn't. Even if the guy in armor knows a bunch of plays and counters, or capable of dodging, it makes more sense to let the armor do it's job and just shank the other guy.

  15. #30
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I've considered that, seriously, in the past. However, there are enough times when Logan actually leads with skill, rather than charging in like a drunken orc (as a now long-gone poster used to say), that I consider it mostly PIS. Gotta showcase that healing factor, don'tcha know.
    I take issue with this.

    An Orc doesn't need to be drunk to charge in like a blithering idiot.
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