The Outsiders Appreciation/Discussion thread 2020

[lemonpeace]

this....this issue broke me. this book is bad and this run was wasted. It started off with a lot of promise but ultimately the only good thing about this run has been that it does somewhat elevate Black Lightning. Orphan wasn't a character, she's a badass button: "we need some badassery, press the badass button!" and the she beats some ass. Katana, why was she even on this team? Lady Shiva was kinda cool but she doesn't really do anything either. Sofia could've been dope too, but the minute she joined the team she stopped being a character; she doesn't even have a name. don't even get me started on Duke (my *****, what was the point of those bullshit shadow powers?) they burned 16 issues of build up for this big confrontation with Ras that ended in a couple of one-sided hits and an abundance of derivative uninspired dialogue. -sigh- can they just drop the last issue so I can wash my hands of this series. I wanted to love this series because you don't see too many creative teams of color writing a book composed primarily of heroes of color but Hill dropped the ball (and dropped it HARD) with tedious pacing, repetitive dialogue, ill-conceived and half-formed characterization, and constantly focusing more on Batman's beef with Ras over developing his cast in a meaningful way. I'm feeling a light to strong 4

tran...

[Frontier]

this....this issue broke me. this book is bad and this run was wasted. It started off with a lot of promise but ultimately the only good thing about this run has been that it does somewhat elevate Black Lightning. Orphan wasn't a character, she's a badass button: "we need some badassery, press the badass button!" and the she beats some ass. Katana, why was she even on this team? Lady Shiva was kinda cool but she doesn't really do anything either. Sofia could've been dope too, but the minute she joined the team she stopped being a character; she doesn't even have a name. don't even get me started on Duke (my *****, what was the point of those bullshit shadow powers?) they burned 16 issues of build up for this big confrontation with Ras that ended in a couple of one-sided hits and an abundance of derivative uninspired dialogue. -sigh- can they just drop the last issue so I can wash my hands of this series. I wanted to love this series because you don't see too many creative teams of color writing a book composed primarily of heroes of color but Hill dropped the ball (and dropped it HARD) with tedious pacing, repetitive dialogue, ill-conceived and half-formed characterization, and constantly focusing more on Batman's beef with Ras over developing his cast in a meaningful way. I'm feeling a light 5 to a strong 4

tran...

So...basically the book wasted most of its cast aside from Black Lightning.

[lemonpeace]

So...basically the book wasted most of its cast aside from Black Lightning.

yes, but I'll give it to Hill that the book's highest character-driven heights were definitely issue #4 or #3 (i forget) which was the Duke therapy issue, but it's like after that issue Hill starts to go further and further down this path where the characters don't really do anything but kinda talk about other characters without anything really insightful coming out of it. he also does this weird thing where for "snappy" dialogue he'll have a character ask a question to other character and instead of answering the question the other character just sorta says or does a "cool thing". this book is only a somewhat decent Black Lightning showcase but other than that it's just kinda a cool book to look at.

I'm sure it'll be Ok if you manage expectations and read it in trade as opposed to month to month. I'll have to read it as a whole to be sure but i think if we put it in that context it's probably like a middling kinda mediocre book with some above average moments from here and there and really striking art for most of the run.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So...basically the book wasted most of its cast aside from Black Lightning.

It always felt to me that this was less a team book than it was simply a place to house Duke, Cass, BL and Katana

[Ironmonk]

this....this issue broke me. this book is bad and this run was wasted. It started off with a lot of promise but ultimately the only good thing about this run has been that it does somewhat elevate Black Lightning. Orphan wasn't a character, she's a badass button: "we need some badassery, press the badass button!" and the she beats some ass. Katana, why was she even on this team? Lady Shiva was kinda cool but she doesn't really do anything either. Sofia could've been dope too, but the minute she joined the team she stopped being a character; she doesn't even have a name. don't even get me started on Duke (my *****, what was the point of those bullshit shadow powers?) they burned 16 issues of build up for this big confrontation with Ras that ended in a couple of one-sided hits and an abundance of derivative uninspired dialogue. -sigh- can they just drop the last issue so I can wash my hands of this series. I wanted to love this series because you don't see too many creative teams of color writing a book composed primarily of heroes of color but Hill dropped the ball (and dropped it HARD) with tedious pacing, repetitive dialogue, ill-conceived and half-formed characterization, and constantly focusing more on Batman's beef with Ras over developing his cast in a meaningful way. I'm feeling a light 5 to a strong 4

tran...

Sums up my thoughts on this issue pretty well. Besides Jeff and Cass, nobody else did anything at all this issue. I still don't understand Dukes power changing or the relevance of it. I like the main cast of the team but wish we got to see them interact with each other more. Have them all bonding with each other in stead of keep separating them into the adults and the teens. Have Katana get some moments with Duke, Jeff with Cass, and so on. Never was a fan of Ra. As a Black Lightning book it worked well. As an ensemble book it failed. Need the team to act like a team. I still think the team lineup has potential but ultimately they were failed by the writing.

[J. D. Guy]

Sums up my thoughts on this issue pretty well. Besides Jeff and Cass, nobody else did anything at all this issue. I still don't understand Dukes power changing or the relevance of it. I like the main cast of the team but wish we got to see them interact with each other more. Have them all bonding with each other in stead of keep separating them into the adults and the teens. Have Katana get some moments with Duke, Jeff with Cass, and so on. Never was a fan of Ra. As a Black Lightning book it worked well. As an ensemble book it failed. Need the team to act like a team. I still think the team lineup has potential but ultimately they were failed by the writing.

Like, for me, I can understand the hypothetical idea behind Duke's power change (reflective of the trauma he was going through). It was the execution that I took issue with, pretty much from start to finish, along with the overall lack of earnestness and commitment of the whole thing. And of Hill's handling of The Signal as a whole from day one.

[lemonpeace]

Like, for me, I can understand the hypothetical idea behind Duke's power change (reflective of the trauma he was going through). It was the execution that I took issue with, pretty much from start to finish, along with the overall lack of earnestness and commitment of the whole thing. And of Hill's handling of The Signal as a whole from day one.

this was my biggest issue with the shadow nonsense, it felt like a change just for the sake of change with no genuine thought or consideration put into it. it doesn't feel like Hill came to that decision because it adds to Duke's character in earnest, it reads like "i got this newer character, I'm gonna make him cool by making him darker and angstier like Batman and the other Bats".

and I can't shake the feeling that the reason he put so little thought into Duke is because of some misguided idea of subverting racial representation. when talking about Duke, Hill said that he doesn't want to just write a flawless or perfect black character because that's it's own kind of tokenism; so he wanted to put him through a "crucible" so he can emerge stronger. the problem is he doesn't build Duke up, he just breaks him down and then afterwards have him honestly just act as a tool for other characters. when it's a fight, all he does it use his shadow to scare while Cassandra fights them. then we see him being used by Lady Shiva to scare some broker or something that they're interrogating. it reads like Hill was just trying to hard not to write Duke as "too good" and ended up writing a not good at all nothing character.

[Iconic]

Jefferson Pierce levels up!
https://screenrant.com/black-lightni...powerful-hero/

[J. D. Guy]

Jefferson Pierce levels up!
https://screenrant.com/black-lightni...powerful-hero/

Bryan Hill does well by Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning. The jury's still out on what level, if any, Bruce Wayne/Batman should have been involved with this revalation of Black Lightning's true power potential. Regardless, Black Lightning came out more than well.

It's mostly everyone else who comes out of this run iffy or poorly or worse.

[lemonpeace]

Bryan Hill does well by Jefferson Pierce/Black Lightning. The jury's still out on what level, if any, Bruce Wayne/Batman should have been involved with this relation of Black Lightning's true power potential. Regardless, Black Lightning came out more than well.

It's mostly everyone else who comes out of this run iffy or poorly or worse.

I agree, in spite of this series' issues, Black Lightning rarely was the problem. his biggest problem was feeling like he's constantly deferring to Batman but that typically had more to do with how the story was being told rather than anything particularly wrong with Jefferson's character. it also doesn't hurt (actually more than helps) that Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini are typically given the room to make Black Lightning the most visually spectacular entity on the page. under a different writer, in a series focused squarely on Black Lightning, I feel they could've given us some of the most visually compelling content Jefferson's had.

[Killerbee911]

Jefferson Pierce levels up!
https://screenrant.com/black-lightni...powerful-hero/

I had convo on this other day in other thread , Where is black over powered character with lighting/electric powers. Static is only one that every come close. If they are going to unleash Black Lighting then fine the model to look at is Magneto that is level he should be operating at in comics. I am fine if they let him be a big gun.

[J. D. Guy]

I agree, in spite of this series' issues, Black Lightning rarely was the problem. his biggest problem was feeling like he's constantly deferring to Batman but that typically had more to do with how the story was being told rather than anything particularly wrong with Jefferson's character. it also doesn't hurt (actually more than helps) that Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini are typically given the room to make Black Lightning the most visually spectacular entity on the page. under a different writer, in a series focused squarely on Black Lightning, I feel they could've given us some of the most visually compelling content Jefferson's had.

I would be all for elevating Black Lightning by having writers create stories where Jefferson explores his deific potential.

And agree that this book's art team made Black Lightning look gorgeous!

[lemonpeace]

The Finale of Outsiders dropped and....they disbanded the team -_- so this run made no attempt to stake its claim and cement itself, and pretty much left it up in the air whether it's ultimately a waste of time or not (depending on whenever the next writer comes along for one of these characters and actually remembers to use anything he set up).

Black Lightning and Katana left to go train her new magic powers that she attained in the annual but never referenced in the actual series. they are hoping Jeff can figure himself out along the way as she goes on her quest.



Duke got his light powers back but his shadow powers are still there (we never learn what they do), he and Cassandra are going back to Gotham. Shiva gives them a way to contact her if they ever want training from her.



Lady Shiva takes Sofia under her wing and they set off to get revenge and train and be badasses; I actually like the idea of Sofia being Shiva's protege going forward.



Batman is by himself, mad for some reason. probably mad at Bryan Hill for having him buy a ranch just to get roofied and ditched for no reason. from a meta standpoint, I'm fine with that because Bruce dominated way too much of this run (even when he wasn't literally on panel) so I think it's kinda funny he gets kinda dumped on with weird story choices.

[king81992]

Jefferson Pierce levels up!
https://screenrant.com/black-lightni...powerful-hero/

The upgrade was really unnecessary, Black Lightning had all of those abilities pre Rebirth. I wonder if the writer actually bothered to research the character.

[king81992]

The Finale of Outsiders dropped and....they disbanded the team -_- so this run made no attempt to stake its claim and cement itself, and pretty much left it up in the air whether it's ultimately a waste of time or not (depending on whenever the next writer comes along for one of these characters and actually remembers to use anything he set up).

Black Lightning and Katana left to go train her new magic powers that she attained in the annual but never referenced in the actual series. they are hoping Jeff can figure himself out along the way as she goes on her quest.

Duke got his light powers back but his shadow powers are still there (we never learn what they do), he and Cassandra are going back to Gotham. Shiva gives them a way to contact her if they ever want training from her.

Lady Shiva takes Sofia under her wing and they set off to get revenge and train and be badasses; I actually like the idea of Sofia being Shiva's protege going forward.

Batman is by himself, mad for some reason. probably mad at Bryan Hill for having him buy a ranch just to get roofied and ditched for no reason. from a meta standpoint, I'm fine with that because Bruce dominated way too much of this run (even when he wasn't literally on panel) so I think it's kinda funny he gets kinda dumped on with weird story choices.

The ending was weak, though it confirmed what I've always thought:despite claiming she cares about Cass, Lady Shiva doesn't really care about her. She moved on to the next tool or weapon in Sofia since Cass is out of her influence.