The Outsiders Appreciation/Discussion thread 2020

[J. D. Guy]

The Finale of Outsiders dropped and....they disbanded the team -_- so this run made no attempt to stake its claim and cement itself, and pretty much left it up in the air whether it's ultimately a waste of time or not (depending on whenever the next writer comes along for one of these characters and actually remembers to use anything he set up).

Black Lightning and Katana left to go train her new magic powers that she attained in the annual but never referenced in the actual series. they are hoping Jeff can figure himself out along the way as she goes on her quest.

Duke got his light powers back but his shadow powers are still there (we never learn what they do), he and Cassandra are going back to Gotham. Shiva gives them a way to contact her if they ever want training from her.

Lady Shiva takes Sofia under her wing and they set off to get revenge and train and be badasses; I actually like the idea of Sofia being Shiva's protege going forward.

Batman is by himself, mad for some reason. probably mad at Bryan Hill for having him buy a ranch just to get roofied and ditched for no reason. from a meta standpoint, I'm fine with that because Bruce dominated way too much of this run (even when he wasn't literally on panel) so I think it's kinda funny he gets kinda dumped on with weird story choices.

Not all writers do this, but there is this onus for some writers to "put the toys back in the toy chest" when they finish their run. It's kind of context dependent, but in general, I'm not a fan when they do this. It makes it even easier than it already is for a new writer to come along and pretend that story and what it contributed to a character's history didn't happen and/or didn't matter. This sucks, especially for characters who had strong feats in the given story that deserve to be acknowledged, celebrated, and built upon, or for characters who really don't have much to their names to begin with to go losing history that way.

It also runs the risk of feeling like you mentioned, where the story "didn't matter". I personally consider this a dangerous and lazy trap for a reader/viewer of fiction to fall into, particular many present-day fiction readers/viewers who are more susceptible to falling into it. It's kind of a one of the root points for many of the misaimed and toxic takes when it comes to analyzing works of fiction, including on a more casual level (one of which being the prevailing weaponization of the dreaded "f" word). The thing is, when writers pull stunts like this, it doesn't do anything but feed into this deleterious mindset and behavior for readers and viewers, especially the ones more inclined to it in the first place.

I also am not too fond of this prevailing notion that a team or group of heroes are only every operating when there is an active comic book run training a camera on them. This is bad because it really hampers the feeling that a connected world/universe (like DC and Marvel, etc., are supposed to be) is a lived in world/universe. The heroes don't stop being heroes and don't stop mattering to the goings on of their world/universe just because their not on-screen/on-page in front of a captive audience of readers and viewers. Yet the writers will do this, dismantling perfectly functioning teams that'd never split up if the run wasn't ending, and not to mention disenfranchising anyone who doesn't have a comfy solo book or other immediately slated position to fall back on. For example, New Super-Man and the Justice League of China should never have stopped being a thing just because their book specifically detailing them and their adventures ended. (Granted, I also attest that it should never have ended in the first place, but still.) They should still and forever be a fixture whenever something goes down that requires the all-hands-on-deck types of emergencies that the Justice League of America frequently find themselves in. The JLA aren't the only ones around who'd take up the defense, so they shouldn't be treated like they are. But because they have a never-ending book, they're treated like the first, last, and only defense when stuff hits the fan.

So yeah. Don't just pack everything up just cause one writer's leaving. "The Adventure Continues" is a trope for a reason. Tropes are tools and writers should use this tool in their stories more often.

[Iconic]

The upgrade was really unnecessary, Black Lightning had all of those abilities pre Rebirth. I wonder if the writer actually bothered to research the character.

Even if that were true, it is now post-Rebirth. This is a younger Jefferson Pierce that hasn't been written at this stage before.

So I thoroughly enjoyed this finale because of the set up for the future. Jeff's future seems bright and I really look forward to whatever they do with Sofia. It feels like anything can happen at this point. I dig what Hill put together.

Also, "putting the toys back in the chest" just may be something that is mandated especially with this supposed relaunch coming in '21. These writers can't just push these characters a direction if DC doesn't already intend for it to happen.

[HandofPrometheus]

Not all writers do this, but there is this onus for some writers to "put the toys back in the toy chest" when they finish their run. It's kind of context dependent, but in general, I'm not a fan when they do this. It makes it even easier than it already is for a new writer to come along and pretend that story and what it contributed to a character's history didn't happen and/or didn't matter. This sucks, especially for characters who had strong feats in the given story that deserve to be acknowledged, celebrated, and built upon, or for characters who really don't have much to their names to begin with to go losing history that way.

It also runs the risk of feeling like you mentioned, where the story "didn't matter". I personally consider this a dangerous and lazy trap for a reader/viewer of fiction to fall into, particular many present-day fiction readers/viewers who are more susceptible to falling into it. It's kind of a one of the root points for many of the misaimed and toxic takes when it comes to analyzing works of fiction, including on a more casual level (one of which being the prevailing weaponization of the dreaded "f" word). The thing is, when writers pull stunts like this, it doesn't do anything but feed into this deleterious mindset and behavior for readers and viewers, especially the ones more inclined to it in the first place.

I also am not too fond of this prevailing notion that a team or group of heroes are only every operating when there is an active comic book run training a camera on them. This is bad because it really hampers the feeling that a connected world/universe (like DC and Marvel, etc., are supposed to be) is a lived in world/universe. The heroes don't stop being heroes and don't stop mattering to the goings on of their world/universe just because their not on-screen/on-page in front of a captive audience of readers and viewers. Yet the writers will do this, dismantling perfectly functioning teams that'd never split up if the run wasn't ending, and not to mention disenfranchising anyone who doesn't have a comfy solo book or other immediately slated position to fall back on. For example, New Super-Man and the Justice League of China should never have stopped being a thing just because their book specifically detailing them and their adventures ended. (Granted, I also attest that it should never have ended in the first place, but still.) They should still and forever be a fixture whenever something goes down that requires the all-hands-on-deck types of emergencies that the Justice League of America frequently find themselves in. The JLA aren't the only ones around who'd take up the defense, so they shouldn't be treated like they are. But because they have a never-ending book, they're treated like the first, last, and only defense when stuff hits the fan.

So yeah. Don't just pack everything up just cause one writer's leaving. "The Adventure Continues" is a trope for a reason. Tropes are tools and writers should use this tool in their stories more often.

I get why some writers do this and sometimes I'm absolutely fine with it when there's a bad comic book run but I'm also not a fan of it. It's even worse when a run is really good from start to finish but everything gets undone.

[lemonpeace]

Katana as the leader of the Outsiders in Future State!



I hope Duke and Cass are on the team. although, Cass is also appearing in Future State in the Batgirls title with Steph Brown.

[Iconic]

Katana as the leader of the Outsiders in Future State!



I hope Duke and Cass are on the team. although, Cass is also appearing in Future State in the Batgirls title with Steph Brown.

Where’d you find this?

[Frontier]

Katana as the leader of the Outsiders in Future State!



I hope Duke and Cass are on the team. although, Cass is also appearing in Future State in the Batgirls title with Steph Brown.

Shogun Katana ?

[lemonpeace]

Where’d you find this?

found it on games rader when I was looking for clearer images for the new heroes [source]

[Iconic]

found it on games rader when I was looking for clearer images for the new heroes [source]

Many thanks!

[J. D. Guy]

Nice look for Katana. Wonder how thing'll go down.

Also wondering where The Signal is in all this.

[lemonpeace]

Nice look for Katana. Wonder how thing'll go down.

Also wondering where The Signal is in all this.

well this kicks off in January, and end of December we're getting Duke's Dark Multiverse book where he's gathering his own future justice league (well, his is more of a dystopian post-apocalyptic League), so I'm hopefully that they'll keep the Duke momentum going by having him on Katana's team. I mean we get him next week in Robin King, followed by an appearance in Death Metal, and then he's starring in his own story with Dark Multiverse following that up; it just seems logic. for all we know he could be Red X, Shiva did suggest Duke use dark red as his color in outsiders

and we do know Cass, Steph, Tim, Nightwing, and Red Hood all appear in Future State, so it looks like they're aiming to hit a wide breadth of Batman's world in this thing.

[J. D. Guy]

well this kicks off in January, and end of December we're getting Duke's Dark Multiverse book where he's gathering his own future justice league (well, his is more of a dystopian post-apocalyptic League), so I'm hopefully that they'll keep the Duke momentum going by having him on Katana's team. I mean we get him next week in Robin King, followed by an appearance in Death Metal, and then he's starring in his own story with Dark Multiverse following that up; it just seems logic. for all we know he could be Red X, Shiva did suggest Duke use dark red as his color in outsiders

and we do know Cass, Steph, Tim, Nightwing, and Red Hood all appear in Future State, so it looks like they're aiming to hit a wide breadth of Batman's world in this thing.

Lol, that'd be something if Red X was Duke! (And that line feels more like an Author on board, aka, Hill doesn't like the Yellow. But I'm Yellow-for-Duke all the way regardless.)

But I do want Duke's momentum to continue and build, and not peter out.

[lemonpeace]

Lol, that'd be something if Red X was Duke! (And that line feels more like an Author on board, aka, Hill doesn't like the Yellow. But I'm Yellow-for-Duke all the way regardless.)

But I do want Duke's momentum to continue and build, and not peter out.

I was just being tongue and cheek, but honestly i just think Hill doesn't like Duke, in concept i mean, which is why he kept trying to make Duke "cool" and edgy; like Batman.

[Dylan Davison]

Katana as the leader of the Outsiders in Future State!



I hope Duke and Cass are on the team. although, Cass is also appearing in Future State in the Batgirls title with Steph Brown.

Which series is she in? The Batman one? Or?

The outfit is a little over the top, but hey, it looks cool!

[lemonpeace]

Which series is she in? The Batman one? Or?

The outfit is a little over the top, but hey, it looks cool!

Yeah, I believe she's in the first Next Batman issue which will put focus on Batman (obvi), the Outsiders and the Arkham Knights.

[Dylan Davison]

Yeah, I believe she's in the first Next Batman issue which will put focus on Batman (obvi), the Outsiders and the Arkham Knights.

Thanks, I'll be checking it out. I'm not super excited for this event, but I'm gonna read it.