The Outsiders Appreciation/Discussion thread 2020

[Korath]

[Frontier]

He has a point about the codename. Can we finally give Cass a new one ?

Gotta say, every page they burn on Bruce in this book is one I would rather was used with Jeff, Tatsu or the kids. He's the only headliner in the title and I care the least about him (possibly because I can read about his adventures elsewhere). I realize him being in the book is probably how it was launched, but dammit I just want Black Lightning or Katana to take over and for Bruce to go do something else and let them shine.

"Burn on Bruce" is right when this book can't seem to make up its mind on its take on Batman, although maybe that ambiguity is deliberate.

[lemonpeace]

He has a point about the codename. Can we finally give Cass a new one ?

"Burn on Bruce" is right when this book can't seem to make up its mind on its take on Batman, although maybe that ambiguity is deliberate.

I think it is somewhat deliberate. Hill appears to be trying to capture the feeling of watching Batman work when he's on page, we rare ever approach the story from Batman's perspective, and I believe that's so we can relate more closely to the Outsiders; which is a good thing imo. I always love whenever we have a book that's purposefully rejecting overplaying the bigger characters in order to focus on lower profile characters. if DC were smart they'd do a throwback (and you know how DC loves a throwback) and drop Batman and make this a straight up Outsiders title. they should be closing the book on the Ra's al Ghul arc not too long before 5G comes up, they could do the turnover then.

[Frontier]

I think it is somewhat deliberate. Hill appears to be trying to capture the feeling of watching Batman work when he's on page, we rare ever approach the story from Batman's perspective, and I believe that's so we can relate more closely to the Outsiders; which is a good thing imo. I always love whenever we have a book that's purposefully rejecting overplaying the bigger characters in order to focus on lower profile characters. if DC were smart they'd do a throwback (and you know how DC loves a throwback) and drop Batman and make this a straight up Outsiders title. they should be closing the book on the Ra's al Ghul arc not too long before 5G comes up, they could do the turnover then.

I get that, I just got tired of this wishy-washy treatment of Batman in relation to his protege's from Tynion's 'Tec run.

If they do break off, I hope they bring in some more classic Outsiders characters.

[lemonpeace]

this issue was frustrating for me as a fan of Duke. I'm genuinely starting to believe Hill just doesn't like this dude. Every single character on the team (and even the villains) has had a cool "whoa" moment except Duke. now he gets his big confrontation with his attacker and he just serves as a distraction so it can be Cassandra Cain that actually beats him; if you just look at this fight you'd have thought it was Cass that had an axe to grind with Karma. this issue really hammered home for me where Duke stands in the hierarchy of this team's narrative importance, it appears to be BL>Katana>Sofia>Cass>Ras>Shiva>Kaliber, Duke, & Ishmael with Batman as the framing device but of no immediate focus.

that aside, I enjoyed pretty much everything else about this issue. Black Lightning always looks awesome when Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini are on the pens, I like that he continues to emphasis his autonomy from Batman I'm still waiting for his actions and leadership to really define the differences from Bruce. I'm still suspicious of Shiva but I like the idea of her joining the Outsiders, and I'm intrigued by who Sofia will become and affect the story going forward.

[Factor]

I think this team is way too Bat-centric.
I'd love to see a new Outsiders team that's independent from Batman, lead by Katana, Black Lightning or Green Arrow.
The Batfamily should have a Gotham Knights book or return to 'Tec like in Tynion's days.

[Frontier]

this issue was frustrating for me as a fan of Duke. I'm genuinely starting to believe Hill just doesn't like this dude. Every single character on the team (and even the villains) has had a cool "whoa" moment except Duke. now he gets his big confrontation with his attacker and he just serves as a distraction so it can be Cassandra Cain that actually beats him; if you just look at this fight you'd have thought it was Cass that had an axe to grind with Karma. this issue really hammered home for me where Duke stands in the hierarchy of this team's narrative importance, it appears to be BL>Katana>Sofia>Cass>Ras>Shiva>Kaliber, Duke, & Ishmael with Batman as the framing device but of no immediate focus.

that aside, I enjoyed pretty much everything else about this issue. Black Lightning always looks awesome when Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini are on the pens, I like that he continues to emphasis his autonomy from Batman I'm still waiting for his actions and leadership to really define the differences from Bruce. I'm still suspicious of Shiva but I like the idea of her joining the Outsiders, and I'm intrigued by who Sofia will become and affect the story going forward.

Shiva? This should end well .

I think this team is way too Bat-centric.
I'd love to see a new Outsiders team that's independent from Batman, lead by Katana, Black Lightning or Green Arrow.
The Batfamily should have a Gotham Knights book or return to 'Tec like in Tynion's days.

Preferably better handled then they were in Tynion's days.

[Digifiend]

I get that, I just got tired of this wishy-washy treatment of Batman in relation to his protege's from Tynion's 'Tec run.

If they do break off, I hope they bring in some more classic Outsiders characters.

Ra's is in Markovia, so I'm wondering if Geo-Force will show up? He and Halo are the only original 1980s team members unaccounted for, as Black Lightning and Katana are on the current team and Metamorpho is with the Terrifics.

And I'm glad to see Cassandra's codename get called out. She needs a new name and has done since her relationship to Shiva was restored to continuity.

[king81992]

Ra's is in Markovia, so I'm wondering if Geo-Force will show up? He and Halo are the only original 1980s team members unaccounted for, as Black Lightning and Katana are on the current team and Metamorpho is with the Terrifics.

And I'm glad to see Cassandra's codename get called out. She needs a new name and has done since her relationship to Shiva was restored to continuity.

The fact that Geo Force hasn't shown up yet and Ras is running around all over his country free as air is really weird. He should've been involved from the start. Maybe the writer isn't interested in using him?

[leo619]

this issue was frustrating for me as a fan of Duke. I'm genuinely starting to believe Hill just doesn't like this dude. Every single character on the team (and even the villains) has had a cool "whoa" moment except Duke. now he gets his big confrontation with his attacker and he just serves as a distraction so it can be Cassandra Cain that actually beats him; if you just look at this fight you'd have thought it was Cass that had an axe to grind with Karma. this issue really hammered home for me where Duke stands in the hierarchy of this team's narrative importance, it appears to be BL>Katana>Sofia>Cass>Ras>Shiva>Kaliber, Duke, & Ishmael with Batman as the framing device but of no immediate focus.

that aside, I enjoyed pretty much everything else about this issue. Black Lightning always looks awesome when Dexter Soy and Veronica Gandini are on the pens, I like that he continues to emphasis his autonomy from Batman I'm still waiting for his actions and leadership to really define the differences from Bruce. I'm still suspicious of Shiva but I like the idea of her joining the Outsiders, and I'm intrigued by who Sofia will become and affect the story going forward.

Bruh, I tried to warn everyone about this from the beginning but no one listened to me. It's still a good book, but it's been a horrible rendition of the signal. I'm loving what he's doing with Kitana, Black Lightning and Cass, but it's clearly obvious he has no real interest in the signal, and is only giving enough nuggets to not be too obvious.

[skyvolt2000]

The fact that Geo Force hasn't shown up yet and Ras is running around all over his country free as air is really weird. He should've been involved from the start. Maybe the writer isn't interested in using him?

Unless Geo was someone Johns had plans for in Doomsday Clock.

[Digifiend]

That shouldn't matter. And it shouldn't be a case of him not being in New 52/Rebirth either, as his existence was effectively confirmed as soon as Terra showed up.

[Elmo]

the run of Outsiders where Dick and Roy were leading the team was the best!!

[lemonpeace]

he doesn't miss the light? you mean the main thing that distinguishes him from the rest of the assortment of shadowy bat characters? so not only is Duke unbothered by his powers being changed, but they kill the guy that changed it and could change it back. I appreciate Bryan Hill, I really do, but he has no idea what he's doing with Duke and I don't think he gets what makes Duke interesting as a character. he's not simply "a bat character with meta powers" but that seems to be the direction he's narrowing him down to. the more he writes him the more I feel like his iteration of the character guarantees Duke will end up yet another forgotten character after this series ends. we have umpteen shadowy bats, taking the light guy and making yet another shadowy bats but in yellow is not an interesting direction and it betrays the foundation of the character.

reposting my thoughts from the Duke thread, any thoughts? am I being too hasty to judge? do you guys not mind the direction?

also edited the first page to include Sofia as an official member and link to each character's appreciation thread.

[Raijin]

At this point, I think I just want Duke written off of here. Thirteen issues and Hill hasn’t done squat with him.